Samus Aran Speed Downgrade

[LordXcano]

So firstly we'll start with speed.

The FTL feat in Fusion (dodging EM waves) is pure conjecture, by me. I simply inferred that the Wave Beam was an electromagnetic wave, which contradicts just about every other example of its speed. This includes speed in the same game where an enemy with the Speed Booster (an item that makes one merely Supersonic) is portrayed as incredibly fast compared to Samus when it uses said speed.

The next feat used to justify her current speed ranking is scaling from Ridley since he outpaced her ship, which has traveled at MFTL+ speeds before. This too, is flawed. The canon prequel manga directly states that FTL travel takes place through calculated hyperspace jumps. This FTL method is backed up in nearly every other game, which Metroid Prime 3 showing her (and Sylux) as disappearing into another dimension and Hunters showing her as in some kind of hyperspace while in flight.

And lastly, her Massively Hypersonic+ speed, coming from her going Supersonic on Zebes' 900x gravity. Well, I did some digging, and it turns out that this thread was right. This guidebook, officially sanctioned by Nintendo (bottom right) lists the characteristics of Zebes in great detail. Luckily for us, the Japanese Metroid Wiki lists what it says. Loosely translated, it comes out to:

Equatorial radius: 5201.156 km

Polar radius: 5187.987 km

Surface area: 3.197x10^8 km^2

Volume: 5.851x10^11 cubic meters

Mass: 4.974x10^24 kg

Average density: 9.18 g/cm^3 Sticking this into the equation for gravity, (MG)/r^2, gives 1.26g, just slightly higher than that of Earth's gravity. This is further backed up in the manga, where it's shown that two minor superhumans (and a rabbit) are fully capable of climbing up mountains on the surface of Zebes, as well as Samus when she was just a child. While the manga does say that genetic engineering is required to survive on Zebes (and as such normal humans can only live in certain areas) this is not referring to the gravity of the planet, rather the wildlife. This is shown in the manga, with unenhanced Space Pirates being able to walk around on the surface just fine, but are completely vulnerable to the wildlife.

Now this is all just debunking her current stats. Now it's time for the anti-feats. Firstly, Metroid Prime 1, Hunters, and 3 all take place in real-time. Meaning that Samus' missile and energy blast speed is exactly as fast as shown in those games (I.E. Subsonic).

We can see that Metroid Prime 1 takes place in real-time during her fight against Meta Ridley. All of the rain moves at normal speed during the fight, meaning that her weaponry is only moving at comparable speed to raindrops. In addition, she completely fails to dodge Ridley's plasma beam (something that isn't even a real laser) and perceives the electricity coursing through him as instant.

Hunters has more evidence towards this. The Volt Driver weapon fires multi-terawatt blasts. Wattage, as anyone knows, has its joules entirely dependent on timeframe. Even at such a high value as multiple terawatts, if she was truly fighting at Massively Hypersonic+ or even Supersonic+ speeds the Volt Driver would be harming them with merely Building level attacks, Below Average Human attacks if the speed during these fights were any higher. However, at real-time, they'd be hurt by City Block level attacks or higher, which is much more reasonable. In addition to this, the Imperialist, which fires quantum cascade lasers (something that is a real concept and moves at lightspeed) is portrayed as completely undodgeable, being a hitscan weapon.

As for Metroid Prime 3, there is the fight against Meta Ridley. Throughout the entire fight you are falling down a shaft at roughly real speeds, meaning that Samus' perception and attack speed is exactly as fast as it appears during that fight. This is later backed up during the Norion escape, wherein it is stated in-universe that you have 4 minutes to get out by an actual character. Samus, while running for her life, just moves at, at most, Athletic Human speed.

In addition, in the manga she has a very hard time dodging the Skree dropping from the roof. Said Skree are depicted as, at most, Supersonic. This is further backed up soon after in which she is almost blitzed by Zebes' wildlife.

Topping all this off, the description of the Speed Booster in Zero Mission says that Samus can only reach supersonic speed with the Speed Booster, meaning that she cannot reach reach said speed without it, as seen in the following quote:

"With this power-up, Samus is able to dash at supersonic speeds and crash through certain barriers and enemies. Press and hold + in the direction you want to dash."

So how fast is she? Well, in Metroid Prime 2 she is capable of, in short bursts, dodging a sound blast while underwater. For reference, sound underwater is 4.3x faster than it is in air. For this reason, I think Samus' top speed should be "Supersonic Travel Speed, Supersonic+ in Reactions."

Now, this is all just speed. I originally intended to include several reasons for an AP downgrade as well, but this thread has gone on way too long and I will have to split it.

 

[Antoniofer]

Mmm, don't known about Metroid Prime, but all this seems rasonable; maybe people should take a look(s) to statements and and anti-feats before consider overlooked calcs, that's why I just calculate speed via given speed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Again.

Showcasing Anti-Feats and Low-Ends is not the proper way to argue and disprove statistcs. It's incredibly fallacious.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, what an obscure guidebook says is ovewritten by the information given in-game, that Zebes weights 4.8 trillion teratons. That information doesn't come from an outdated guidebook or from a vaguely canon manga. Ergo, it holds greater validation than those sources.

You disagreeing with your own FTL calculation doesn't disprove it's validation, and the result is matched by Samus dodging Plasma / Light based weaponry numerous times.

Game Mechanics should never be used for calculations.

 

[LordXcano]

1. Guidebook is only "obscure" because it isn't in english. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't canon. That and depiction from an undeniably canon manga (the backstory is referenced numerous times in Other M) trumps what is likely a typo (switching "trillion" to "billion" gives similar results to Earth's gravity.)

2. Samus has never dodged light based weaponry. The only light-weapons in the series come from Metroid Prime 2, and they are portrayed as instant.

3. No, anti-feats are useable. This is the same reason why everyone in DBZ isn't 2-C with Infinite speed, or that Naruto isn't FTL, or that Superman isn't Multi-Galaxy in all incarnations. You're suggesting we use feats that not only don't exist, but also would be outliers anyway.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Matthew, the downgrade for Zebes's gravity contradicts the fact that the numbers are still there in both versions of Metroid Prime trilogy. Not to mention all of those other planets are trillions of teratons, or several Yottatons.

 

[LordXcano]

I agree with Matthew, the downgrade for Zebes's gravity contradicts the fact that the numbers are still there in both versions of Metroid Prime trilogy. Not to mention all of those other planets are trillions of teratons, or several Yottatons.

I could say the very same with the opposite. The numbers contradict what is shown in-canon, there's never a single instance where it is suggested Zebes has unusually high gravity, and Super Metroid shows that regular Peak Human soldiers are capable of walking on its surface.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Guidebook is obscure because it is from the Super Metroid era. Ergo, it doesn't account the Prime Trilogy, Fusions, Other M, or any other more recent material.

You arguing for it being a typo when you have no evidence other than your opinion is laughable, and should be ignored. And once again, Game is the primary canon, so it doesn't matter what the manga says.

Anti-Feats are not usable. That's why they are called Anti-Feats. Your examples are a false-equivalency, you are saying that the only feats we have are High-End outliers.

 

[LordXcano]

That doesn't make sense. Just because it's old doesn't make it obscure. Unless you'd argue that Super Mario Bros. is more obscure and therefore less canon than say, Mario Dance Dance Revolution.

I'm arguing for it being a typo because that is literally the only thing that makes sense. Zebes is never portrayed as having high gravity, not once. The guidebook says it doesn't have high gravity, the manga shows it as not having high gravity, and the games themselves, aside from one minor bit of scan info, show it as not having high gravity.

Matt, no. That... that isn't how it works. Anti-feats are useable. Do you know why we don't have everyone in Dragon Ball as Moon level 21st Budoukai onward?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It does make sense. Also, that's a false equivalency. Super Mario Bros is a real game, and one of the primary in the series, it is definitely canon. The other example is a non-existent Spin-Off.

What makes the guidebook non-canon is because it was done and made when there was little to no information and installments on the series, and the information you brought up from it is contradicted by more recent game.

The manga's bits can be ignored as it is not primary canon, and it is not portrayed as high-gravity because it isn't for Samus.

And in regards to the word "Anti-Feat".

Blowing up the moon is a feat. Blowing up a city is a feat. A hand-to-hand fight between two moon / city busters is an Anti-Feat, because it contains no destruction feats.

Anti-Feat is when a story doesn't show any feats, rather than showing feats that contradict another feat. This is why being shot by bullets when the game-mechanic requires you are hit by enemies is not a feat, however, matching a Sub-Relativistic in combat is a feat..

 

[LordXcano]

@Matt

Actually, no. Mario DDR is a real game. I can even list to you some feats from it if you'd like.

There were 3 installments in the Metroid series by the time that guide was released, 4 by the time the different info on Zebes was released.

The manga is a primary canon though. It is a direct prequel to the games.

Matt if anything I think you don't know what the word "Anti-Feat" means. Your example is an example of attack potency, unless you're going to argue literally every single fight in Dragon Ball is an anti-feat and they need an immediate downgrade to City Block level.

I can easily turn this around and say that you're fighting a Sub-Relativistic person just because the game needs you to, and not because they're actually Sub-Rel.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'd argue that 99% of the Dragon Ball fights are "Anti-Feats" going by your definition that they don't contain higher end feats. I mean, we only have one feat that is Universal from Goku-level characters, and a handful of statements. Plus, the only characters who Planet-busted are Vegeta, Freeza, Buu and Beerus.

I suppose a downgrade thread is in order.

 

[LordXcano]

You put a smug anime girl there even though that was your point dude.

"A hand-to-hand fight between two moon / city busters is an Anti-Feat, because it contains no destruction feats."

This doesn't apply to speed. If a character dodges lightning once and then gets tagged by it on 10 different occassions, they clearly aren't capable of dodging lightning.

Samus has no FTL feats, feats where she struggles to dodge supersonic enemies, a statement that she can't even reach supersonic speed without acceleration and numerous instances where it's implied the games take place in real-time.

What does she have for high speed?

1 calc. 1 calc based on info that's contradicted in every other appearance.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with Xcano and the downgrade.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You are using Quantity over Quality. Her very profile lists FTL feats, and the information from Metroid Prime doesn't contradict evidence from manga. The contrary is what happens.

Low-Ends of Supersonic+ feats are meaningless if we have even one higher-end speed feat to go by.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@LordXcano

Zero Suit Samus has been shown to dodge lighting bolts during the Chozo Ruins test. Also, the speed comparisons between Samus, Ridley, and Samus's Mothership have been discussed here

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I find Lord xcanos argument to be the most plausible after careful analysis. However someone should link this to @Somebodydata as I recall he being an expert on this verse.

Also @Matthew Schroeder and @Lordxcano I am advising that you both right now beforehand that please make sure to debate on you best behavior(we don't need it to be like the metal gear solid downgrade thread all over again.)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

SomebodyData basically said what Matthew said on an older thread, about the guidebook being dated and repeated that the numbers in Metroid Prime trilogy seem to be the most reliable source.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not have an opinion about this, but agree that staff members should try to be polite towards each other. The "laughable" comment and the image were not.

 

[Nibbler3100]

Dang, I don't support this we take looking at the characters at their peaks here

 

[SomebodyData]

If we accepted old, dated guidebooks and such, Samus would be a cyborg whose preferred pronouns are he / him and could absorb your powers. Also, it would be Zebeth not Zebes. Space Pirates would appear as Dark Samus looking characters made up of gas and the universe would contain this... thing as Kraid. Metroids would have tentacles.

Not to mention this argument of "it's a typo" is like the core busting argument in DBZ, at least in terms of how often I've seen it used. You have to consider how many times they would have been able to repair this typo, which by the way, is a lot. Between the different versions on the GC, the Wii one, the Trilogy one. And they didn't just move the game from console to console, they changed things from glitches to the lore, ie, like this lore should have been if it was a typo. I mean, there are such a thing as bad editors but cmon, this is just absurd with everything that they did. There is also the fact that this came from an American company, just putting this here in case someone tries to say "It's a mistranslation".

As for the guidebook... while it is sanctioned by Nintendo it is not created by it. It's made by a third party called Ape Inc. It would be like accepting the Scholastic guides for Pokemon which is crazy. Or Nintendo Power as canon (Which would be actually not half bad, NP Metroid comics had an incredible amount of depth into them, though it would be rather awkward for Samus to have two dead dads and moms each)

I see that the FTL feat is flawed though. And agree with removing it. Though, I should mention that Samus has fought MFTL+ enemies (Gorea and Meta Ridley) in her Varia Suit before, which we placed as outliers for the most part due to the FTL feat...

Also, what I find strange is how you mentioned there is only one thing for Massively Faster than Light level speed when there is literally:

- Ridley. The same guy who literally flies from solar system to solar system on a daily basis like: In Super Metroid, where he takes the Baby Metroid from Ceres (The dwarf planet in our solar system) Space Station to Zebes. In MP3 a damaged and defeated Meta Ridley flies from Norion to the Space Pirate Homeworld.

- Dark Samus who had literally flew from Tallon IV to Aether in her weakest form. And then proceeded to intercept a Space Pirate ship and later managed to get to Phazee, a planet on the other side of the galaxy.

- Phantoon, the guy who flew from the destroyed Zebes to the Bottle Ship.

Really all the calc did was provide specifics. I'm okay with Unknown MFTL+, although just pointing out the fact that the MP3 Gunship and Fed gunship are made from GF technology. Unlike Samus's gunship in MP1 and MPH. So it kinda falls apart there too.

While these are more specific arguments against your op, Matt does bring quite a few points about the anti-feats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@SomebodyData, now that was the comment I was waiting to hear.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that SomebodyData seems to make sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think that SomebodyData seems reasonable and makes sense.

I also apologize for the posts before. Don't want any violence between members;

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. Just think about that it is necessary to try to keep this community working properly.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I also totally agree with SD.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree with SD.

 

[LordXcano]

@SD

They actually did not change the lore between the original release and Trilogy, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure the only changes were in difficulty and texture. And keep in mind, I'm not arguing that it's a typo just because it seems like one, I'm arguing this because every single time Zebes appears it fails to display that level of gravity, and simply changing "trillion" to "billion" or "teraton" to "gigaton" gives more realistic, Earth-like gravity, which matches up to it's depiction in every apperance. To go over the evidence towards Zebes having low gravity:

• An unenhanced human child is capable of surviving without issues

• Space Pirates are capable of surviving without issue

• A minor superhuman who's best feat is jumping 3-4 meters into the air is capable of scaling mountains on Zebes

• The fact mountains exist at all when 960x gravity would crush them

• The BOTTLESHIP, an exact replica of Zebes' environment, has gravity that regular humans can survive in and the imported creatures are not any stronger than they were on Zebes

• Samus' abilities are the same on SR388 and the BSLR station, indicating their gravity is similar to that of Zebes'. Despite this, humans are capable of walking along their surface without issue

• In Super Metroid we see a regular Federation soldier had made it through a great portion of Zebes before dying not to the gravity, but to the wildlife

• An original Japanese guidebook gives figures that would result in 1.26g gravity

• While it is a different model and the weight could be slightly different, the fact Samus is seemingly unable to stop the weight of her ship (136 tons) despite the fact that in 960x gravity she would be lifting 95 tons every single day by her bodyweight alone

• The fact Samus struggles for several seconds to lift the truck-sized Vorash, keep in mind even the heaviest of trucks are only 16.5 tons, well below what she would be lifting every single day on a 960g Zebes

Meanwhile the evidence for high-gravity is one scan in one game, despite earlier games and later games (Other M) showing direct evidence to the contrary. And to address your point about the guidebook being made by "Ape Inc.", that company is now known as "Creatures Inc." and is responsible for the entire Mother series and Pokemon Emerald, so it isn't really a "third party."

As for Ridley, both Zero Mission and the manga show he has a ship, which implies heavily that he is not capable of interstellar travel unaided. This makes sense, particularly with base Ridley, as there is no air in space for his wings to push off of.

Dark Samus can literally teleport and is connected to the (at the time) only source in the universe that can create wormholes. We also see that in MP3 it isn't out-of-character for her to simply steal other ships.

Phantoon is weird. We aren't told why he's at the BOTTLESHIP or how he got there, and it's pretty likely it's simply a different Phantoon (seeing as Samus presumably killed him and then blew up the planet in the previous game.) But, for the sake of argument, let's say he did fly there. The concept art for Other M states that Phantoon's astral body is in another dimension, which matches up nicely with the manga stating FTL travel works through shifting into another dimension.

Gorea's feat has no timeframe to it, nor do we see the method. Considering that the Alimbics seem to have only inhabited 1 star system, or perhaps just 1 star cluster at best, doing such a feat at sub-lightpseed is entirely possible. The logbooks also repeatedly hammer in how Gorea used their technology against them, so he, as the others, could've used a ship.

 

[SomebodyData]

Actually, they did. Quite a bit actually. Phazon spreads through Talon IV quicker, Pirate history with Metroid Prime is altered, etc.

• Yes, in the land specifically designed to protect the chozo and etc.
• Depends on what you define as surviving, they had mix their dna with Chozo Dna (Hence the Zebesians), to get through most of the terrain. There is also the fact that we don't know how much gravity they can resist normally.
• Can you specify which superhuman?
• Not sure about the mountain point, pretty sure it would just be some illogical induced thing. Kinda like how clothes aren't completely destroyed in 9-A level and up battle in fiction.
• Actually most of the bottle ship is holograms with areas trying their best to mimic the terrain.
• That Samus one is a complete stretch, how does Same abilities of a character = Same gravity of a planet? These two things are completely unrelated?
• Actually we have absolutely no knowledge about that trooper. Where did you get this information?
• Insert previous post about guidebook.
• Okay, this is just blatant misinforming what happens. The guy tosses her gunship at her in an attempt to damage her, it would be like downgrading characters for throwing cars around in an attempt to damage them.
• You mean the same Vorash that is struggling to get away from her? Had he been perfectly still this would be an actual argument though due to Other M's consistency problems that is debatable.

Hmm that is quite interesting. So while it isn't a third party to Nintendo as a whole, it literally has absolutely no history with Super Metroid or the franchise outside of a guidebook.

Actually, we see him fly in space in SM, MP and MP3 without a ship. Which I would assume is likely due to the fact that the only time he was on the Mothership was for creating Robot Ridley and using a mirco black hole weapon.

Interesting how you state "at the time" because the feats I mentioned were prior to her gaining teleportation and that connection to Phazee.

Phantoon's astral body is locked in said other dimension, where as his head (The thing that would have to be MFTL+) isn't.

You... do know the Alimbics constantly stated in their lore how Gorea went along terrorizing the entire galaxy? It also came in some comet-like form, so no, it doesn't travel via spaceship.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

To add about the mountains, it's probably because the elements that Zebes is composed of are far more durable than Earthly elements, thus enabling the mountains to remain stable on such high gravity. As for every thing else, SMD said exatly what was on my mind.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Somebody Data continues to be logical and reasonable.

 

[LordXcano]

• Both areas they mention she can survive in are underground, which means she would've had to have been transported above ground before she could get there. The same goes for her rabbit, who survives just fine without any enhancements

• The mix was not due to terrain, rather the wildlife (as I showed in the OP.) Before the mix they had no issues getting around, they were only in danger once they got in a cave with Skree. And while, yes, we don't know how much gravity they are "used to", the Pirate Homeworld has gravity low enough for regular humans to walk on

• The elf-looking one, the gorilla in the background is also a minor superhuman but he's at least shown as physically strong

• Even so, (and this also addresses DDM's point above) there's the fact rain can exist even though it would (at the very least) instantly be crushed into ice at such high gravity

• It is still clearly capable of creating hard-light projections, and the argument that Samus could survive because of gravity manipulation technology can also be equally turned around and used for the BOTTLESHIP, the enemies are also real AFAIK as they were supposedly transported to the BSLR

• Think of it like this, higher gravity means higher strength, yes? If she can jump 5 meters in Zebes at 960x gravity, then she should be able to jump much much higher in lesser gravity, just as astronauts. Despite this, she fails to display any greater ability despite the gravity being lesser

• The trooper is humanoid and wearing what seems to be Galactic Federation armor, his death came about from the insects on the planet as we can see them eating through his mask. Even without that trooper though, the Federation was going to attempt a full invasion of Zebes without Samus originally, meaning that gravity is not an issue for them (for context, the only reason Zero Mission was completed alone was because they couldn't reach Zebes fast enough)

• My point was that she could've not only resisted the damage to herself but also the ship by simply putting out her arms and stopping its motion

• Sure, it's struggling to get away, but I was still over-estimating its weight and in order for this to be a bare minimum showing for her strength it would need to have been pushing away at a force 5.75x higher than its body-weight. This would be the equivalent of you (assuming you're average) bench-pressing 1124 pounds

Ridley can fly in MP and MP3 because of his cybernetic wings, which we see let off propulsion. Even in those cases he isn't flying interstellar, rather just right down to the planet below at about Mach 100~ speed. We do not see him fly in Super Metroid, the scene cuts to Zebes after Samus leaves the station.

I said "at the time" because the Space Pirates got wormhole tech in Fed. Force, not because she didn't have the abilities. Dark Samus was clearly capable of teleportation by the time of Prime 2, and she was always connected to Phaaze (being a manifestation of its conscious.) Also, while I'm sure I've seen it, can you post the quote of Dark Samus flying to Aether? I can't seem to actually find this. I mean it can be inferred she got there, but I can't find anything saying how she did it.

The head can shift into that dimension, that's how its intagibility works. See also the point about how it may not actually be the same Phantoon.

They never say it terrorized the entire galaxy, they say that it could if they did not stop it. Once again, no timeframe is given. And just because it came on a comet doesn't mean that therefore every single time it travels it has to do so as a comet, particularly if there are faster methods of travel available. And even provided it does travel all the time as a comet, Samus still would not scale as it never goes into its "comet form" against her.

 

[Cropfist]

I still agree with Xcano.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I still agree with SomebodyData and Matthew. And actually, there was a feat in Zero Mission that demonstrated Zebes's gravity right here. Assuming it was in real time, it only took about 11 to 12 seconds to fall from a 1000+ Km height making the 9,360 m/s^2 pretty legit. And considering there was a small mushroom cloud when she landed, town level durability sounds reasonable for Zero Suit Samus.

And as for the Vorash feat, I doubt he was less than one ton; most scans place his weight at least 20 tonnes given his size; not counting his lava armor. And as SD mentioned, the fact that he was trying to pull away shows that Samus was actually lifting more force than that. On topic, she still mangaged to throw him several stories high.

And once again, as mentioned above, using dated guidebooks to debunk more recent feats would severly downgrade alot of characters on this site. Examples would be the Mega buster being only 1500 PSI as his maximum output to contradict the small planet level calcs, as well as the Marvel comics database for powerscaling. I respect your opinion, but I really don't think Samus should be downgraded just for using that old guidebook.

 

[LordXcano]

@DMM That scene is actually an anti-feat for Zebes' gravity. When we see her start to land (which is after a cut) it takes her about 3 seconds at terminal velocity to crash into the ground. Even assuming those mountains were as tall as Everest (they clearly aren't, they're only about 10-20x bigger than her ship) that would make gravity 5898 m/s^2, only 601x Earth's. And that's high-balling the gravity as much as possible. If you would like I could do an actual calc on it. Also, it doesn't leave a mushroom cloud, it blows up because her ship was destroyed.

I wasn't assuming the Vorash was 1 ton, I was assuming it was 16.5 tons based on the weight of the largest trucks.

The difference between the MegaMan thing and this is that MegaMan has feats to back up his Small Planet level rating. In almost no circumstance (bar maybe the Zero Mission thing if you ask me to calc it) is Zebes portrayed as having high gravity. So really, wouldn't this be like arguing for his Mega Buster being 1500 PSI when every other showing is against it?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You're still misusing the term anti-feat. I explained what an anti-feat really is.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well those mountains were in the background, so it's really hard to determine how big they are and could be much bigger than they look. Plus, she still withstood that explosion in just her zero suit.

And actually, I misread your equivelent to "bench-pressing 1124 pounds" line, my apologies. But still, she Vorash was pulling himself away as Samus was trying to pull him out of the lava, meaning Samus was pulling with much more force than what Vorash weighed. Not to mention she still threw him a couple stories high.

And no, I'm not for the 1500 PSI Mega Man, I was just stating that the dated guidebook from the Mega Man 2 era was unreliable and contradicts the small planet level feats. Also, you missed my other example. There was the Marvel comics guidebook database that places Spider-Man at Class-20 strength despite feats him lifting several thousand ton skyscapers, or Thor being class 100 despite him lifting the Midgard serpent, who ways at least a couple ZettaTons. It's the same with Samus's speed feats. Despite the guidebook listing Speed Booster as Supersonic, Samus has dealt with multiple Massively FTL+ opponents as SD mentioned. And she dodges lightspeed lasers including SA-X's wave beam/EMR wave which puts her At Least Realitivistic speeds.

I also have other examples when Anti-Feats are mentioned. We also got Boros getting hurt by Saitama's punch when all it did was punch him through a wall, and Superman getting severly injured by Doomsday's punches that don't even destroy cities. I'm not for having a Wall level Boros or Street level Superman; that would just be ridiculous. So in other words, I still do not think Samus or any Metroid character for that matter should be downgraded.

 

[LordXcano]

An anti-feat is when a character displays a level of power that is far below what we consider it to be and struggles to do so. What you were describing is attack potency, which is completely different.

Anyways, I did a calc on Zebes' gravity based on the scene of her ship crashing.

A quick summary is that it ranges from 1.58 to 6.41 times higher than Earth's gravity, depending on which method you use. Still a far cry from 960x Earth. I also did the impact energy of her ship for fun and got Small Building level, although it's likely the energy that destroyed her suit came from the mechanical systems blowing up and not the impact itself.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Sorry, I don't mean to be offensive, but that calc had some of the common mishaps of pixel scaling; It's like saying the castle lifted in SMW was only 40 tons judging by how it looks on the outside or saying Sonic's running speed is only 11 meters per second by comparing his height with the distance he travels. Those mountains in the foreground and back ground are nearly impossible to determine and it would be strange to assume that those mountains are that small.

 

[LordXcano]

@DDM I measured it directly from the ship, nothing to do with the mountains. The Mario one is a different case, as it is clearly bigger-on-the-inside and it's possible to measure this inside-volume. Sonic is 11 m/s as far as gameplay is concerned, it's just that he has much higher feats in cutscenes and such and so that's what we go with.

In this case it is both a cutscene and has a distance we can directly measure without any "bigger on the inside" shenanigans going on.