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Salad Saiyan (Dragon Ball What If) Discussion Thread

Does King Cold downscale from 100% Frieza or 50% Frieza? I’m filling out Kakarot 2’s speed scaling, and if it’s the former I think that would make him Massively FTL+ due to his massive power advantage.

Also would Kakarot 2 during Cell Prime VS The Saladverse be Low 1-C or 2-C?
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Does King Cold downscale from 100% Frieza or 50% Frieza? I’m filling out Kakarot 2’s speed scaling, and if it’s the former I think that would make him Massively FTL+ due to his massive power advantage.

Also would Kakarot 2 during Cell Prime VS The Saladverse be Low 1-C or 2-C?
Click to expand...
I'd assume he'd be low 1-C via fighting cell prime after he became low 1-C tho he would downscale (also immeasurable speed)

King cold scales to 100% freiza I believe
 
Screenshot_20240313-131438_Discord.jpg


Salad saiyan said use the toei scaling + dbs anime and manga mixed scaling bc that makes the most sense
 
Spinoirr said:
I'd assume he'd be low 1-C via fighting cell prime after he became low 1-C tho he would downscale (also immeasurable speed)

King cold scales to 100% freiza I believe
Click to expand...
Yeah I think he was also about to fight Majin Turles who is Low 1-C, although since we haven’t seen the outcome to that fight yet I didn’t know if it should count.

Also where is Immeasurable from? I forgor

Spinoirr said:
Screenshot_20240313-131438_Discord.jpg


Salad saiyan said use the toei scaling + dbs anime and manga mixed scaling bc that makes the most sense
Click to expand...
OK I’ll do that for those it makes sense for (AKA everyone that isn’t Bojack lol)
 
Spinoirr said:
From Freiza potential Goku and Gohan flying to another universe via shear speed alone also WoG
Click to expand...
Wait, universe or timeline? Iirc they travelled through both at different instances, but I don’t remember which one they used speed for. I don’t believe travelling between universes qualifies for Immeasurable, and I’m not sure if travelling between timelines does either though I may be wrong there.

What was the WoG statement though? Depending on what is it that whole spiel might’ve been pointless lol

Ghengiroo115 said:
(AKA everyone that isn’t Bojack lol)
Click to expand...
Actually should Prime Lord Slug scale to his movie self or should he scale differently like Bojack. Post-Super Saiyan Raditz has some statements that vaguely put him around King Cold and Kogu’s level in base, but since base Raditz is weaker than Prime Slug scaling him to the aformentioned two wouldn’t really work.

Personally I think I should just scale Prime Slug normally and ignore the Raditz statements since they’re somewhat vague, also now that I think about it scaling Granolah anywhere near Final Form Frieza doesn’t make any sense lol
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Wait, universe or timeline? Iirc they travelled through both at different instances, but I don’t remember which one they used speed for. I don’t believe travelling between universes qualifies for Immeasurable, and I’m not sure if travelling between timelines does either though I may be wrong there.

What was the WoG statement though? Depending on what is it that whole spiel might’ve been pointless lol


Actually should Prime Lord Slug scale to his movie self or should he scale differently like Bojack. Post-Super Saiyan Raditz has some statements that vaguely put him around King Cold and Kogu’s level in base, but since base Raditz is weaker than Prime Slug scaling him to the aformentioned two wouldn’t really work.

Personally I think I should just scale Prime Slug normally and ignore the Raditz statements since they’re somewhat vague, also now that I think about it scaling Granolah anywhere near Final Form Frieza doesn’t make any sense lol
Click to expand...
Salad used to scale granolah Saga granolah as 73 level, so this is a younger and weaker granolah
 
Spinoirr said:
With this any what ifs that includes movie villain's scales to the toei anime scaling + super manga and anime mixed
Click to expand...
Would this include the Mega Universe what if? Iirc the only Toei thing was Lord Slug and he had a very different backstory and power level.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Would this include the Mega Universe what if? Iirc the only Toei thing was Lord Slug and he had a very different backstory and power level.
Click to expand...
Probably not given how different that Lord Slug is (although he does go to Teoi continuitys but that wouldn't scale to anyone in that Megaverse what if)
 
Spinoirr said:
Probably not given how different that Lord Slug is (although he does go to Teoi continuitys but that wouldn't scale to anyone in that Megaverse what if)
Click to expand...
OK cool, I’m working on a Megaverse Piccolo profile as well because of how relevant he is to Cell Prime (also Kakarot 2 shows up in his what if and I was rewatching the series to see if he gets any notable feats).
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
OK cool, I’m working on a Megaverse Piccolo profile as well because of how relevant he is to Cell Prime (also Kakarot 2 shows up in his what if and I was rewatching the series to see if he gets any notable feats).
Click to expand...
Would be neat to have Megaverse Caulifla profile

Also due note how salad said that beerus and champa have been training together for millions of years hence why they're way way way way way more powerful then cannon
 
Spinoirr said:
Would be neat to have Megaverse Caulifla profile

Also due note how salad said that beerus and champa have been training together for millions of years hence why they're way way way way way more powerful then cannon
Click to expand...
Does she get any notable changes? I’m mainly just doing characters with notable differences from canon in terms of power, but if so then I’ll do her as well (maybe I shouldn’t be working on five profiles at once but whatever lol). Asking in advance because I like working on the profiles as I watch through the series to have the best memory on stuff.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Does she get any notable changes? I’m mainly just doing characters with notable differences from canon in terms of power, but if so then I’ll do her as well (maybe I shouldn’t be working on five profiles at once but whatever lol). Asking in advance because I like working on the profiles as I watch through the series to have the best memory on stuff.
Click to expand...
She literally gets Ultra Ego
 
So just a quick rundown on the evil Goku scaling chain (post-Frieza) so I don’t forget, first starting with what I believe is the Toeiverse scaling:
  • 50% Frieza causes a Multi-Solar System level (67.4 ExaFoe) feat
  • 100% Frieza is 2x as strong (134.8 ExaFoe)
  • Post-Yardrat base Goku is as strong as 100% Frieza
  • Post-Android training Goku is stronger, and as a Super Saiyan is 50x stronger (6.74 ZettaFoe or Multi-Solar System level+)
  • Androids 17 & 18 are stronger than him and Super Saiyan Vegeta
  • Imperfect Cell are drinking enough people is stronger than 17 & 18
  • Cell adds 17’s power to his own and becomes much stronger than the sum of his parts, making him at least 2x stronger when Semi-Perfect (13.48 ZettaFoe or Galaxy level)
  • SSJ Grade 2 Trunks surpasses him, and as Grade 3 is 10x stronger (134.8 ZettaFoe)
  • SSJ Grade 4 Goku is stronger than every other member of the Z-Fighters at half his power (269.6 ZettaFoe)
  • Perfect Cell is stronger than him, and while Power-weighted is 10x stronger (2.696 YottaFoe)
  • Super Perfect Cell is stronger than his previous Power-weighted form
  • Weighted Pikkon easily defeated Super Perfect Cell
  • Base Goku post-Otherworld training is comparable to Pikkon
  • SSJ2 Goku is 1,000x 500x stronger (2.696 RonnaFoe 1.348 RonnaFoe or Multi-Galaxy level)
  • Innocent Buu is stronger than SSJ2 Goku
How this applies to evil Goku:
  • Post-Super Saiyan unlocked Raditz was considered impressive by Kakarot while in his base state, despite Kakarot at this point being strong enough to one-shot King Cold and also considered transformed Kogu to not be that strong (despite the latter being somewhat of a threat to his life). Raditz should also be comparable to Vegeta when he canonically first unlocked the form. This would make him around 134.8 ExaFoe (Multi-Solar System level) in base and 6.74 ZettaFoe (Multi-Solar System level+) as a Super Saiyan.
  • Kakarot and Turles post-fruits were stronger than Frieza and King Cold in base, which would make them 134.8 ExaFoe (Multi-Solar System level) in base and 134.8 ZettaFoe (Galaxy level) as Evil Saiyans.
  • Infernal Saiyan Turles was superior to Buu which would make himself, Infernal Saiyan Raditz and Supreme Saiyan Kakarot 2.696 RonnaFoe 1.348 RonnaFoe (Multi-Galaxy level). This would in turn make them in Evil Saiyan form 53.92 YottaFoe 26.96 YottaFoe (Multi-Galaxy level), in Super Saiyan form 2.696 YottaFoe 1.348 YottaFoe (Galaxy level), and in base 53.92 ZettaFoe 26.96 ZettaFoe (Galaxy level).
  • Evil Saiyan Kakarot was equal to Fifth Form Cooler, who in his movie is an over 20x boost over his Fourth Form. Post-Planetary fruits Super Saiyan Raditz could get the upper-hand over Fourth Form Cooler, so he’s between 1/50th and 1/20th Evil Saiyan Kakarot. This would make him over 21.568 ZettaFoe 10.784 ZettaFoe (Galaxy level) in base, over 1.0784 YottaFoe 539.2 ZettaFoe (Galaxy level) as a Super Saiyan and over 21.568 YottaFoe 10.784 YottaFoe (Multi-Galaxy level) as an Evil Saiyan.
  • Everything after that is God stuff so they’d be 2-C there.
Hopefully I didn’t make any mistakes here.
 
Last edited:
Ghengiroo115 said:
So just a quick rundown on the evil Goku scaling chain (post-Frieza) so I don’t forget, first starting with what I believe is the Toeiverse scaling:
  • 50% Frieza causes a Multi-Solar System level (67.4 ExaFoe) feat
  • 100% Frieza is 2x as strong (134.8 ExaFoe)
  • Post-Yardrat base Goku is as strong as 100% Frieza
  • Post-Android training Goku is stronger, and as a Super Saiyan is 50x stronger (6.74 ZettaFoe or Multi-Solar System level+)
  • Androids 17 & 18 are stronger than him and Super Saiyan Vegeta
  • Imperfect Cell are drinking enough people is stronger than 17 & 18
  • Cell adds 17’s power to his own and becomes much stronger than the sum of his parts, making him at least 2x stronger when Semi-Perfect (13.48 ZettaFoe or Galaxy level)
  • SSJ Grade 2 Trunks surpasses him, and as Grade 3 is 10x stronger (134.8 ZettaFoe)
  • SSJ Grade 4 Goku is stronger than every other member of the Z-Fighters at half his power (269.6 ZettaFoe)
  • Perfect Cell is stronger than him, and while Power-weighted is 10x stronger (2.696 YottaFoe)
  • Super Perfect Cell is stronger than his previous Power-weighted form
  • Weighted Pikkon easily defeated Super Perfect Cell
  • Base Goku post-Otherworld training is comparable to Pikkon
  • SSJ2 Goku is 1,000x stronger (2.696 RonnaFoe or Multi-Galaxy level)
  • Innocent Buu is stronger than SSJ2 Goku
How this applies to evil Goku:
  • Post-Super Saiyan unlocked Raditz was considered impressive by Kakarot while in his base state, despite Kakarot at this point being strong enough to one-shot King Cold and also considered transformed Kogu to not be that strong (despite the latter being somewhat of a threat to his life). Raditz should also be comparable to Vegeta when he canonically first unlocked the form. This would make him around 134.8 ExaFoe (Multi-Solar System level) in base and 6.74 ZettaFoe (Multi-Solar System level+) as a Super Saiyan.
  • Kakarot and Turles post-fruits were stronger than Frieza and King Cold in base, which would make them 134.8 ExaFoe (Multi-Solar System level) in base and 134.8 ZettaFoe (Galaxy level) as Evil Saiyans.
  • Infernal Saiyan Turles was superior to Buu which would make himself, Infernal Saiyan Raditz and Supreme Saiyan Kakarot 2.696 RonnaFoe (Multi-Galaxy level). This would in turn make them in Evil Saiyan form 53.92 YottaFoe (Multi-Galaxy level), in Super Saiyan form 2.696 YottaFoe (Galaxy level), and in base 53.92 ZettaFoe (Galaxy level).
  • Evil Saiyan Kakarot was equal to Fifth Form Cooler, who in his movie is an over 20x boost over his Fourth Form. Post-Planetary fruits Super Saiyan Raditz could get the upper-hand over Fourth Form Cooler, so he’s between 1/50th and 1/20th Evil Saiyan Kakarot. This would make him over 21.568 ZettaFoe (Galaxy level) in base, over 1.0784 YottaFoe (Galaxy level) as a Super Saiyan and over 21.568 YottaFoe (Multi-Galaxy level) as an Evil Saiyan.
  • Everything after that is God stuff so they’d be 2-C there.
Hopefully I didn’t make any mistakes here.
Click to expand...
Here's the Toei scaling blog
 
Never mind actually, I was almost spot on aside from making Super Saiyan 2 20x Super Saiyan instead of vaguely above 10x like the blog says. All the characters who were scaling to Buu would be half as strong but everything else is the same.
 
Spinoirr said:
What profile are you focusing on the most?
Click to expand...
Mainly alternating between the three evil Goku profiles, but I’ll also be filling out Megaverse Piccolo as I rewatch his series.

What I’ve done so far for the evil Goku profiles is almost fully filled out the Tier, AP, Striking Strength and Durability sections, although I haven’t done Kakarot’s Cell Prime key yet and also haven’t finished filling out his and Raditz’s Post-God Ki AP justification. I’ve also listed the Speed tiers for them (aside from Kakarot and Turles’ Cell Prime keys) but haven’t written the justification yet.

Haven’t even touched any of the other categories lol, kinda dreading the P&A section.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Haven’t even touched any of the other categories lol, kinda dreading the P&A section.
Click to expand...
At the very least they should have the same powers as their toei versions so just copy that and remove powers they shouldn't have at that point of the story or add them to a later key, also then add the new powers and resistances latter on
 
Spinoirr said:
At the very least they should have the same powers as their toei versions so just copy that and remove powers they shouldn't have at that point of the story or add them to a later key, also then add the new powers and resistances latter on
Click to expand...
True actually, I could just do that. Raditz and Turles especially shouldn’t be too bad since they’re basically the same thing as in canon just with Extreme heat resistance and space survivability in their higher forms (also Turles has Majin powers at the end but I can just copy that from Buu). Kakarot might be an issue since he’s got a bunch of powers he doesn’t have in canon and is missing a lot of powers he does have, but idk if that would really affect his P&A section since it basically all falls under ki manipulation. I guess his Notable Techniques section is where things will be tricky.
 
Spinoirr said:
From Freiza potential Goku and Gohan flying to another universe via shear speed alone also WoG
Click to expand...
What was the WoG statement? I read the Speed page and it said flying between universes was unquantifiable, so depending on what the WoG statement is Majin Turles and Kakarot 2 may only be Massively FTL+ during Cell Prime (at least right now, I’m like 99.9% sure Salad is gonna give Cell Prime an Immeasurable speed feat eventually).
 
Also is Cell Prime condensing Ultra Infinite Zamasu into a small sphere and physically holding it a Lifting Strength feat or nah? Admittedly I don’t really know how Lifting Strength exactly works.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Also is Cell Prime condensing Ultra Infinite Zamasu into a small sphere and physically holding it a Lifting Strength feat or nah? Admittedly I don’t really know how Lifting Strength exactly works.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'll list it as one given he didn't change its density or anything but just condensed it
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
What was the WoG statement? I read the Speed page and it said flying between universes was unquantifiable, so depending on what the WoG statement is Majin Turles and Kakarot 2 may only be Massively FTL+ during Cell Prime (at least right now, I’m like 99.9% sure Salad is gonna give Cell Prime an Immeasurable speed feat eventually).
Click to expand...
 
Spinoirr said:
Yeah, I'll list it as one given he didn't change its density or anything but just condensed it
Click to expand...
Yeah I saw on Fu’s page that he was Immeasurable for holding the universe he made, so I assumed the same would apply to Cell Prime. Plus he constantly holds it inside his ring with zero effort so yeah.

Spinoirr said:
Click to expand...

Oh right forgot this one mentioned Immeasurable. Normally I’m more conservative when it comes to crazier powerscaling statements like this, but like I said before I’m confident he’s gonna give Cell Prime an Immeasurable feat in a later episode so I’m just gonna list it anyway (plus Piccolo is being hinted to eventually regain all his power and he had an Immeasurable speed feat).
 
Added a couple notes to the evil Goku profiles:
  • The Toei versions of Dragon Ball characters are being used for scaling, as Salad Saiyan said that it would make more sense.
  • If a movie character’s power level massively contradicts the story with no reason given (for example Bojack) then it’ll be assumed that they scale differently in this series, otherwise they’ll be assumed to scale the same.
  • Dragon Ball Super manga characters are being assumed to be essentially the same as their original selves when it comes to their scaling chain, only they scale to the anime versions of the cast instead. For example, weakened Moro is scaling to the anime version of post-Broly saga Super Saiyan Vegeta rather than the manga version.
Is there anything else I should add?
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Added a couple notes to the evil Goku profiles:
  • The Toei versions of Dragon Ball characters are being used for scaling, as Salad Saiyan said that it would make more sense.
  • If a movie character’s power level massively contradicts the story with no reason given (for example Bojack) then it’ll be assumed that they scale differently in this series, otherwise they’ll be assumed to scale the same.
  • Dragon Ball Super manga characters are being assumed to be essentially the same as their original selves when it comes to their scaling chain, only they scale to the anime versions of the cast instead. For example, weakened Moro is scaling to the anime version of post-Broly saga Super Saiyan Vegeta rather than the manga version.
Is there anything else I should add?
Click to expand...
Nope
 
I'll Probably work on a Saiyan Chi Chi profile (you make the sandbox and I'll edit it)
 
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