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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
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- saint seiya
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Finally a verse that can face bleach lol. It only fair if saint seiya characters can fight their knock off.
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Orpheus one shots
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As far as i know it can't affect all infinite timelines, so soon he'll never be 2-A, unless you make a composite version of Hades
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Not even composite Hades is 2-A there's only Interdimensional range feats, but u been looking
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In EP G it doesn't affect timelines? There is, it's Cronos from EP G that it affects and Hades seems to have absorbed him, from what I've seen of people on Facebook, I don't remember exactly what the argument was.
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No 2-A feats there. Hades only has Interdimensional range feats. Kronos doesn't have anything yet but Uranus might
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It makes sense
Hasty12345
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Hades is blatantly low 1-C, LC makes it abundantly clear 8th sense users and above are 5D in existence.
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But the dice is 4D
Hasty12345
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That CRT wasn’t even “legal”, you have to wait 3 months to reverse an accepted CRT afaik.
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It also never passed as I recall. In any case, the CRT only pushed for 5D HDE not stats so I don't think we get Low 1-C AP/Dura from there
Hasty12345
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We get the AP and Dura from God cloths being a level beyond the 8th sense.
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Welp. Given how consistent the time axis stuff is for the verse we might not even need it
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A potential current Ikki with God Cloth would be infinitely superior to his self that can keep up with a god whose very essence forms the infinite universe and makes it expand
Such logic would apply to the infinite universes that exist in Saint Seiya, so it's not far fetched to claim Pontos is multiversal+, considering he scales Gold Saints whose clash has potential multiversal/multiversal+ output.
Ikki has also lightning + fire so strong, it turns into light and pierces through higher dimensions and potentially timelines with Photon Burst: https://imgbrr.co/i/HgTa
https://imgbrr.co/i/HGFP
Hasty12345
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low 1-C Ikki upgrade inbound
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Shijima tells Shaka that firing the Treasure of Heaven at him is an insult and then releases his cosmo intensely, leaving his silence aside and opening his mouth. A thunderous sound echoes in the room: it's Ungyo, symbolizing the end of the universe. Shun says that the House of Virgo is being swallowed up by darkness. Shaka congratulates Shijima and says that his technique is powerful, but he counters Shijima's cosmo by opening his eyes. Shaka's light, which is actually the Agyo, symbolizing the birth of the universe, pierces Shijima's darkness.
There's nothing literal there, just a representation, if it were true Shaka would be able to kill Hades in just one attack, which even he and the Golden 12 can't do
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Ikki omnipotent confirmed, lolA potential current Ikki with God Cloth would be infinitely superior to his self that can keep up with a god whose very essence forms the infinite universe and makes it expand
This seems like hyperbole
Hasty12345
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How can Shun see symbolism?
What specific part do you think sounds like hyperbole and based on what is that conclusion founded upon?
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BFR, my dear (Wait, I thought you were talking about Shun falling) , but it is just a representation, Shaka didn't create anything, we didn't see literal Universes being destroyed or created, that was all nothing more than something symbolic created by the two (something already mentioned in the work itself)
Hasty12345
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Do not refer to me as your "dear".
Nothing you said disproves the fact Shun made the statement universes were being created and destroyed, if it was Shaka or Shijima you might have an argument.
The work ONLY indicates that PHYSICAL universes were in play.
The individual attacks being symbolic on their own doesn't mean the result of their clash (something that has never happened in the history of the verse) is symbolism, especially when a character could physically see these objects being created and destroyed.
So I'm not convinced by your false equivalences and parroting of D-tier arguments,
A statement outlining the qualities or attributes of an attack as well as describing what effects the attack is passively having on the environment is now hyperbole?
Well RIP to 99% of all scaling everywhere.
The attack is an infinitely dense combination of Ikki's soul and cosmo, you don't have grounds to claim hyperbole, nothing about the language is poetic, Ikki/Leo Saints even tells us the attack is affecting the dimensions around them, before telling us the nature of the attack was higher dimensional.
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What do you mean you don't refute it? It's literally said that all that was just something symbolic created by Shaka and Shijima, it's mentioned twice, that something symbolic that represents the destruction of the Universe and creation, seeing something symbolic doesn't prove that it's real, but rather that they can see a kind of illusion created by them to represent the creation and destruction of the Universe
The work doesn't indicate that they can create something like that, Shaka doesn't have the potential to climb with that, that's something symbolic, I don't see why he's low 2-C based on that, but I'll make a crt to change that somehow.
If there's no evidence of that, then it's hyperbole
Hasty12345
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If Superman represents and is the symbol of hope, is the destruction he does also symbolism?
I'm not disputing the attacks themselves represent concepts, however, that doesn't mean the destruction caused by the clash was also symbolic.
There's 0 evidence it was an illusion.
The character who described what he saw did not indicate it was an illusion, this character has identified illusions in the past and did not mention this was an illusion.
Shaka is low 2-C for reasons primarily relating to the 7th sense, I plan on changing it myself in my next CRT.
However, now you've convinced me he is 2-B, so now I have to reevaluate the tier 4 scaling I was going to give him, maybe he needs a new key for post-wailing wall, as he is clearly far far stronger now than he was in Classic.
The evidence is the statement itself and the characters describing what is happening.
The panel choosing to focus on Ikki instead of the environment isn't an anti-feat. Extrapolating your logic means we cannot scale novels as there's no proof that anything being described to us is happening.
You're making the claim it is hyperbole, you have to prove it is hyperbole, I know you can't because such evidence doesn't exist.
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You could argue symbolism, but that symbolism was directly stated to be "manifesting" itself into reality just before the clash of light and dark.
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I don't think Superman is a good example, what you mentioned has nothing to do with it, if he can destroy the Universe or something greater with his power, he is what he did, but if he said something symbolic that didn't happen and described it as several times being symbolic and that it didn't happen, then he didn't do anything, just a representation to show the beginning and the end of the Universe.
There's plenty of evidence that it's an illusion created by them, Shaka has done it in the past, not like now, but he did it with Ikki, he has the skills to do it
Of course, you can try to make Shaka 2-B through a representation of the creation and destruction of the Universe (although, I doubt that would pass, since not even Hades at his maximum potential can do that), but be aware that not even joining all 12 golden ones is capable of creating enough energy to destroy Universes or create one.
You were using the argument just now that seeing means creating, and once again, they didn't create anything, everything was just a representation created by both of them and that shouldn't be in the AP section
I saw absolutely nothing to be concrete, just empty statements without proof
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I honestly don't even know how this happened, but it's so wrong.
Hasty12345
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Based on what evidence can Hades not do it?
"be aware"????
3 Gold Saints can.
I suppose if you can't understand what's being said then every statement appears empty.
Thankfully, you're interpretation (or lack there of) isn't an argument I haven to worry about.
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On the basis that he has no feat for such a scale
Yes, they can create a small Big Bang at a smaller rate the creation of the Universe
No, i'm just saying there's a lack of evidence for that claim.
Hasty12345
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weaker characters do and Athena is stated verbatim weaker than said feat whom Hades scales above.
Nothing says Hades "cannot" or "isn't" at that level, so nothing precludes Hades from scaling above it when there's a direct scaling chain.
This right here shows how disingenuous you are towards this verse.
You know for an absolute fact that's not what is stated and the Athena Exclamation is compared directly to the actual big bang and is stated to have destructive capability on that level.
No, you are saying you refusing the evidence for that claim. There's a difference.
Luffy, the difference between you and I is that you're clearly biased because you would disagree with 2-B Hades on the basis he one shots Goku.
I am not blinded by such notions, and even though it would mean Goku soloed Saint Seiya, I would have upgraded him to low 1-C (which is where he should be) had the other DB fans had told me not to.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out your motivations when you advertise them on every Saint Seiya and Dragon Ball CRT, even to the point of using Saint Seiya scans to prove your DB CRTs in an attempt to "catch Saint Seiya out" for the size of the UW.
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It is mentioned that EA his power is less, but anyway, let's touch on the subject of Shaka, no need to be aggressive, we're having a fan debate and there's no competition
Calling people fake is ugly, just for disagreeing with their opinion, you know I'm a fan of both franchises and i disagree with a lot of things, we're not talking about Dragon Ball, so just focus on what's being said
Athena was never shown to have 2-A potential, but she was affecting the Universe with her trip to the past, i don't see how Hades will have a 2-A feat, i don't care about complex things related to tier 1, i always avoid debating things like that
But you can try something like this, since the verse has a basis for it, i believe that the only one to scale with this is Chronos
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Hasty12345
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scan
I'm not aggressive, and there is no competition... except when your motives are as clear as the night sky.
I'm going to assume this is an artifact of google Translate. I never called you fake or implied you were a fake fan of either series. I just stated you're clearly biased when you make claims that are very obviously not true and contradicted by the very evidence you use to support your claims.
Gohan was never shown to have 4-B potential, but then Cell came along and made a hyperbolic statement and now Gohan scaling means he has 4-B potential.
I don't think you're using the word "potential" right here and you probably mean "power", easy to see how translation software can confuse the two.
However, Gods in the franchise are often stated and narratively implied to be infinitely above the likes of humans, unless it's a miracle (gods scale above 99% of those as well) human power cannot reach the domain of gods.
So Shaka and Shijima having a 2-B feat and Shijima being scared at the vague flex of Athena's cosmo is grounds for her and Hades to scale.
As for the trip to the past disturbing the universe, the Pope says it's anything any Olympian could do yet only Chronos can time travel. So whilst this particular instance is due to time travel, any Olympian god can disrupt the order of the universe and destroy it.
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About EA's quote, you can find it in your official language, since the English manga of Saint Seiya is not available here, but using a translator we are told that the creation of the Universe is on a smaller scale
When you have several evidences and statements to prove such a thing, of course, citations are only useful if you have a lot of evidence, which didn't happen during this (this is contracted by the work itself, which proves to be something symbolic/representation )
I don't think Google translate is wrong, but I'll look here to see if it called me that, but anyway forget about it, i don't want to create any unnecessary fights between us.
When you have several evidences and statements to prove such a thing, of course, citations are only useful if you have a lot of evidence, which didn't happen during this (this is contracted by the work itself, which proves to be something symbolic/representation )
I don't think Google translate is wrong, but I'll look here to see if it called me that, but anyway forget about it, i don't want to create any unnecessary fights between us.
Hasty12345
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you are confusing 2 statements making different claims.
The attack mimics the big bang on a smaller scale, yes. However, it also has power that rivals the Big Bang that created the universe.
They are 2 different statements talking about 2 different attributes of the technique, one (the one you are referring to) talks about its form/physical property the other, the other (the one I'm referring to) talks about its power.
It can be a smaller-scale Big Bang that has the full force of the actual Big Bang, they're not mutually (size and power) exclusive properties.
Again, I don't accept this gibberish argument and I have explained why it falls flat on its face.
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It's okay, you don't have to accept my argument.
Hasty12345
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It's not that I'm not accepting your argument, it's that you don't have an argument.
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Oh yeah, you didn't have it, that's why you were nervous with me.
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