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The astral form is only a reference to the soul, which is an ethereal body.
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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
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Proof?
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Literally as they describe her soul, when the goddess loses her body when it is burned by the flames.
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I don't remember that is all. you got the scan available?
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Chapter 24 of Requiem, when the flames burned Athena's body, she takes an ethereal form, a soul without a body.
I never attacked any soul, this is never said in the story.
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The profiles use an old translation that confuses the word spirit/mind with the word soul, for example Kreios is described as destroying the soul, when it really says that his weapon damages the spirit/mind, and even in that scene we can see how Shura's mind is altered and begins to see painful memories of his past.
Kreios: 肉体と精神と同時に小宇宙までをも
The word is 精神 (spirit/mind).
It is the same word that Thanatos uses when he tries to torture the mind of Seiya and attacks his sister.
Even the official English translation translates that word as mind.
I also clarify that it is one thing to damage a soul and another to destroy it completely.
For example Ikki's attack destroys or damages Nachi's soul, this does not mean that he can now regenerate a soul and has super immortality.
Also Hades clearly says that he eliminated Shun's soul, but later we can see how Shun's soul came back, this doesn't mean that now Shun has super immortality either.
I guess they must think Nachi is a super god, rivaling the true gods like Shaka and Jabu.... true, that's why he survives even when his soul was killed.
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Leaving behind a fact that should have been clear by now and that is becoming clearer with each new series that is published.
Here are images of the meteor shower that Nemesis will summon over the Earth, even Hades describes that everything will be reduced to nothing, which could indicate that it will completely destroy the world/planet.
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It seems that what we see in that scene is not the moon and is really the star (celestial body) Adrastea (one of the moons of Jupiter) that is approaching the Earth by the guidance of the goddess and within ten hours this celestial body will enter the gravitational field of the Earth and begin to break into countless meteorites that will crash into the planet.
Here are images of the meteor shower that Nemesis will summon over the Earth, even Hades describes that everything will be reduced to nothing, which could indicate that it will completely destroy the world/planet.
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It seems that what we see in that scene is not the moon and is really the star (celestial body) Adrastea (one of the moons of Jupiter) that is approaching the Earth by the guidance of the goddess and within ten hours this celestial body will enter the gravitational field of the Earth and begin to break into countless meteorites that will crash into the planet.
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@Lancelot_de_Cancer It's interesting that any fan translator could somehow mistake that word for "soul", when in the context of this series, we literally see 精神 referenced in a description for literally the Genromaoken itself, and it clearly just means the mind or psyche.
This just goes to show how Episode G seriously needed a real official English translation instead of unreliable fan translations for this language and how many misconceptions its' caused.
This just goes to show how Episode G seriously needed a real official English translation instead of unreliable fan translations for this language and how many misconceptions its' caused.
Hasty12345
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It is never stated, implied or otherwise indicated Athena EVER touched or interacted with or otherwise manipulated Hades’ soul. Every spin off/interpretation of Hades’ defeat throughout the entirety of the franchises publication history has only ever mentioned the destruction/disappearance of his body.
Hades’ soul being destroyed is the most head canon garbage fabrication of an interpretation of the manga I’ve ever seen.
Hades’ soul being destroyed is the most head canon garbage fabrication of an interpretation of the manga I’ve ever seen.
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This is just a headcanon and it is never mentioned in any way that he can damage souls, in fact it is not indicated that any of the Titans possess this ability, even no character mentions that his soul has been damaged in any way by his attacks. That's not how abilities work, especially when in this series it was never a common ability.
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It's actually very common
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I am not well versed in calculations, but searching google, Adrastea is a very small moon (it has a diameter of 16.4 km), such a small celestial body can destroy the world if it impacts as it appears in the images or even its countless fragments that would be much smaller can cause that level of destruction. Or I have to assume that Nemesis will somehow enhance this impact.
An interesting detail, on twitter a user pointed out to Tsunakan Suda his mistake in the image where Shanghai appears with buildings that should not exist in 1990.
The author context with this image where the goddess says that "I accidentally traveled through space-time. .ops!".
An interesting detail, on twitter a user pointed out to Tsunakan Suda his mistake in the image where Shanghai appears with buildings that should not exist in 1990.
The author context with this image where the goddess says that "I accidentally traveled through space-time. .ops!".
No, it is not, even in the franchise in general this is not how it works.
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Hasty12345
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Just like how Hades or anyone else mentioned Athena damaged or destroyed his soul.
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She used a sacred treasure, a weapon to kill gods, and Hades has not reappeared in the canon, we don't even see his soul in any scene. The interpretation of these authors is irrevalent to the work of Kurumada, who most of the time has a different interpretation of this universe.
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Shiryu legit fought ghost as a Bronze Saint. He then said something it was because of Cosmo
Edit: Cosmo is straight up stated to be derived from the mind and spirit and straight up stated it requires focusing the spirit and mind.*
Edit: Cosmo is straight up stated to be derived from the mind and spirit and straight up stated it requires focusing the spirit and mind.*
Hasty12345
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Nice head canon. Never stated anywhere she can destroy his soul. Your double standards are showing again.
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There is nothing headcanon about this, when it is clearly explained in the story. Better stop crying, just because your headcanon is always confirmed as a mistake.
He fought against a group of Skeletons and defeated them, even I'm not sure if they were manipulated by real ghosts and probably it was just an illusion of Mu to scare off or put the invaders to a halt. The only one that damaged a ghost like Bronze Saints were Jabu and Shoko, but this only applies to the main universe and it's not something they do with every attack, that's why the souls of their opponents still exist. This only became a common ability for the Saints until Next Dimension, where they were all destroying the ghost snakes that protected the Temple of Odysseus, but even this detail that they were ghost snakes was only revealed until Volume 12, where they say that they had lost their bodies while waiting for Asclepius to return.
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Hasty12345
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I swear you just make stuff up.
Hasty12345
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You’re not even trying to hide it at this point.
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Nice strawman. My argument is that your scans didn't only mean it meant minds, and considering Shura took a Genromaoken earlier in G, he'd know what mental attacks are.
Hasty12345
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Notice as well when his logic is applied to his own arguments they literally fall apart…
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The word used is spirit/mind (even examples of the context where that word is used were placed), and we clearly see how it is affecting his mind in that scene, where he begins to have visions of his past, and Shura did not even remember having received the Genrōmaōken, the purpose of using that technique was to alter the memory of Shura, who had discovered the truth.
Saga can (thanks to the Galaxian Explosion), but the others never showed this power (unless they use a special technique with the power to damage or affect incorporeal beings), not to mention that in that scene he only makes the spirits disperse (so he didn't eliminate them in any way), but they reform into a giant and he has to use the Another Dimension to defeat them.
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The doubt is understandable since it's never directly mentioned, but I also think the original story conveys the idea that Hades soul was indeed destroyed by Athena.
In the scene where Athena impales him and he begins his last moment seething, he mentions specifically how the Hades existence itself (him) would be destroyed/perish.
In the scene where Athena impales him and he begins his last moment seething, he mentions specifically how the Hades existence itself (him) would be destroyed/perish.
And why I would say this alludes to the fact his soul was destroyed is because we can contrast it with Poseidon, someone who himself exists only as a soul usually (completely lost his Mythological body already) and at end of the Poseidon Chapter was seen as a helpless soul sealed in the urn, and despite all that, it was still never considered that the Poseidon existence itself had perished or been destroyed as far as I remember, so it wouldn't make sense for Hades entire soul to be intact based on this description.
Hasty12345
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Okada, the Poseidon mangaka and SSA all interpreted the scene as Hades’ body only being destroyed. I’d imagine all 3 sources are fluent in their native language. I don’t think it’s a coincidence no SS authors interpret Hades’ soul as having been destroyed by Athena.The doubt is understandable since it's never directly mentioned, but I also think the original story conveys the idea that Hades soul was indeed destroyed by Athena.
In the scene where Athena impales him and he begins his last moment seething, he mentions specifically how the Hades existence itself (him) would be destroyed/perish.
And why I would say this alludes to the fact his soul was destroyed is because we can contrast it with Poseidon, someone who himself exists only as a soul usually (completely lost his Mythological body already) and at end of the Poseidon Chapter was seen as a helpless soul sealed in the urn, and despite all that, it was still never considered that the Poseidon existence itself had perished or been destroyed as far as I remember, so it wouldn't make sense for Hades entire soul to be intact based on this description.
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Okay, but my argument wasn't even translation based that phrase is pretty unambiguous and straightforward, it's the simple context of how someone who would be in the same situation as Hades under the notion that his soul was intact is neglected to ever be considered as having completely perished as Hades by his own admission confirms he's about to be.
Hasty12345
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Perish literally means to die, nothing at all in any capacity implies Hades’ soul has been harmed. Dead people in SS exist as souls all the time.
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He specifically makes a reference to how the "このハーデス" "this Hades" referencing his existence/identity (however you wanna call it) perishes.
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Well I don't think simply his Mythological body has ever been considered to be the entire "Hades" character, and his soul has always been part of it.
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So here's what I found.
The translator confirmed what Lancelot said at first, for much the same reason. However, I took a look at the kanji Okada used when he had Saga comment on his Demon Emperor Fist and there Okada used a kanji that very explicitly means 'mind' (心)
https://media.discordapp.net/attach...767123703861360/0103.jpg?width=380&height=559
Since 精神 does not seem to have a direct counterpart in English Someone asked if It was possible for the word to have the dual meaning of soul/mind, and the translator said yes.
The translator confirmed what Lancelot said at first, for much the same reason. However, I took a look at the kanji Okada used when he had Saga comment on his Demon Emperor Fist and there Okada used a kanji that very explicitly means 'mind' (心)
https://media.discordapp.net/attach...767123703861360/0103.jpg?width=380&height=559
Since 精神 does not seem to have a direct counterpart in English Someone asked if It was possible for the word to have the dual meaning of soul/mind, and the translator said yes.
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Aswell, based on this following scan it seems Kurumada believes Cosmo to be of a more fundamental essence than soul and mind. I'll paraphrase what I was told here since I'm not a kanji expert:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/959611949165973606/1020783408563114004/Saint-05-0038.jpg
'Here 精神 is in fact being used to say both "soul" and "mind" and it's also describing Cosmo as an even more fundamental essence as 生命 is used. It's the "whole" of an individuals "existence.'
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/959611949165973606/1020783408563114004/Saint-05-0038.jpg
'Here 精神 is in fact being used to say both "soul" and "mind" and it's also describing Cosmo as an even more fundamental essence as 生命 is used. It's the "whole" of an individuals "existence.'
Hasty12345
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Seishin is more of a religious term for metaphysical aspects if memory serves me well. And it wouldn’t make sense for Shura to be talking about his literal mind, as someone pointed at to me he got slashed across the torso, but the head.
Kreios is certainly attacking a metaphysical aspect of Shura’s being. Whether it’s his soul or some other metaphysical aspect is up for debate, but at that points it’s splitting hairs and mostly a semantical argument - which I don’t have the energy to take part in.
Kreios is certainly attacking a metaphysical aspect of Shura’s being. Whether it’s his soul or some other metaphysical aspect is up for debate, but at that points it’s splitting hairs and mostly a semantical argument - which I don’t have the energy to take part in.
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