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Saint Seiya Complete Verse Overhual - Revenge of Tier 1 Upgrades -

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TheUnshakableOne said:
There's quiet a few ground works for Tier 1

From the universe being an infinite recursion so there's possibly infinite dimensions

To as low as

Uncountably infinite universes (perhaps several of those)

To

Hypertimeline logic

To

All coordinates in a spacetime continuum creating an infinite multiverse thus creating a low 1-A space
Click to expand...
A) Scans for infinite universes?
B) What’s a “Hypertimeline”?
 
Lonkitt said:
A) Scans for infinite universes?
B) What’s a “Hypertimeline”?
Click to expand...
There's several scans fir infinite universes in the blog

Hypertimeline is a fan created term for when a greater timeline/spacetime continuum/ universe holds inside of it a 4D spacetime/timelime/continuum

Such thing requires more proof than just "it holds universes inside universes" you need evidence of a higher temporal dimension which I provided.
 
Another, and even better example, comes from Saint Seiya: Saintia Sho. This is where a "Galaxy"[17] was directly stated to be a "new universe."[18]
Click to expand...
I don't agree with using that as a justification. We see that in the clash between the two is creating a universe, with several galaxies spreading around. Consequently, one of those galaxies went head-on into the girl
This doesnt mean that one galaxy is a universe

I mean, destroying galaxies is a daily thing in Saint Seiya. If the universe = galaxy were true it would certainly be more explicit
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
I don't agree with using that as a justification. We see that in the clash between the two is creating a universe, with several galaxies spreading around. Consequently, one of those galaxies went head-on into the girl
This doesnt mean that one galaxy is a universe

I mean, destroying galaxies is a daily thing in Saint Seiya. If the universe = galaxy were true it would certainly be more explicit
Click to expand...
It's directly stated that, that galaxy, is to be a new universe not just once but twice.

The clash between Ares (Lemur) and Aiolia was happening in the Living World. The main universe, it was a scene transition. They didn't create the universe.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
No, it's not
I have explained
Click to expand...
Saint seiya Saintia Sho. Chapter 80

Shoko is absorbed and taken into this "Galaxy"

which is directly stated to be a "new future" which as elaborated upon by other scans that explain the multiverse. "Future" is another term for a new universe



Chapter 81

we are told a new universe is about to be born, and at the end of the chapter Shoko wakes up in this new universe



chapter 82
Dysmonia says "we can see everything from here" but we can't stop it.



chapter 83

it becomes confirmed that the galaxy eris sent at Shoko was actually a whole new universe



Chapter 84

it gets confirmed again that it is a whole new universe but without Conflict that knows only peace

 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
We see that in the clash between the two is creating a universe, with several galaxies spreading around. Consequently, one of those galaxies went head-on into the girl
This doesnt mean that one galaxy is a universe
Click to expand...
Actually, Eris is stated to have created that galaxy/universe directly, so this is not correct
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Saint seiya Saintia Sho. Chapter 80

Shoko is absorbed and taken into this "Galaxy"

which is directly stated to be a "new future" which as elaborated upon by other scans that explain the multiverse. "Future" is another term for a new universe



Chapter 81

we are told a new universe is about to be born, and at the end of the chapter Shoko wakes up in this new universe



chapter 82
Dysmonia says "we can see everything from here" but we can't stop it.



chapter 83

it becomes confirmed that the galaxy eris sent at Shoko was actually a whole new universe



Chapter 84

it gets confirmed again that it is a whole new universe but without Conflict that knows only peace

Click to expand...

Again, the creation of the universe was spreading several galaxies with the clash, consequently one of the galaxies hit Sho. As she was now inside a galaxy of a new universe, she would automatically already be inside that "new world"
Your interpretation is the greatest mental gymnastics I've ever seen
 
Meaty CRT.
There's a lot to discuss, but overall I want to voice support to the idea that a single universe is a flat out infinite multiverse, this is pretty blatant in G. Shura flat out states a universe contains parallel worlds, so I don't think you can interpret it any other way.
There you go Hasty you can finally rest
Everything else has to do with math shit so I'll leave that discussion to the rest of you.
 
Completely disagree. This just reads as a really roundabout and redundant way to reiterate that the cosmology is 2-A.

And the points being made here in regards to "recursionary universes" are inaccurate.

1. Galaxies (nebulas in the japanese version) are not literal universes. They are verbatim called portals/doorways that lead to the past or future, or later on, seemingly different dimensions (the dark dimension Tenma ended up in, or the different universe Shiryu lived out a life to old age in).

In any case, the scene where the latter part is shown also goes against the proposal that these "galaxies" are literal universes as opposed to the portals they're confirmed to be.
7bcf65f33f871fc0b6f390c0f0f46387.jpg
38b85627ef8dff9453b08939455a9698.jpg
As a result of space-time distortions, these "galaxies" appear within Sanctuary and work as portals to send those who went into them to different dimensions. But they're clearly portals as they're stated to be, as obviously, the Sanctuary does not contain entire universes. Chronos Lake in itself is also literally a place contained on the regular Earth, so those galaxy portals are obviously just that, not literal universes.

The scene with Shoko is no different.
TheUnshakableOne said:
The "Infinite part" comes from the Episode G Triology where we are explictily stated that "Univereses exist inside Universes."

Click to expand...

This is not a good translation of what he says (Tivanenk's version is characterized by its errors).
55f5b09aac497ced94bf3a35920d384e.png

同一の宇宙を持ちながら違う未来を進む世界も存在する
There are also world(s) that have identical universe(s) but lead to different futures
同一の宇宙 here is quite literally "identical universe"
Click to expand...
That speaks for itself how this completely goes against the notion that the series ever indicates there're universes inside "the universe" (which literally goes completely against how it uses "universe").

The information in this thread is simply supporting evidence for a MWI 2-A cosmology, which is already accepted.
 
世界は必ずしも一つでは無い There is not necessarily only one world. 同一の宇宙を持ちながら違う未来を進む世界も存在する There are worlds within the same universe but with different futures. 並行する別の世界 Other Parallel Worlds
Guess we need to get someone to check translations.
 
AlexZiggy said:
世界は必ずしも一つでは無い There is not necessarily only one world. 同一の宇宙を持ちながら違う未来を進む世界も存在する There are worlds within the same universe but with different futures. 並行する別の世界 Other Parallel Worlds
Guess we need to get someone to check translations.
Click to expand...
@Executor_N0 And i Believe @Jasonsith can be of help here
 
AlexZiggy said:
世界は必ずしも一つでは無い There is not necessarily only one world. 同一の宇宙を持ちながら違う未来を進む世界も存在する There are worlds within the same universe but with different futures. 並行する別の世界 Other Parallel Worlds
Guess we need to get someone to check translations.
Click to expand...
That's clearly not what it says, no idea how you got that translation. This is that entire phrase:
"同一の宇宙を持ちながら"
持ち means to have, hold, possess etc.
ながら means while in the sense of different simultaneous actions (in this case, it's having identical universes while leading to different futures)
Together, it means "while having."

That's not even to mention how even an idea of "parallel worlds within the same universe" makes 0 sense taken literally to mean a single universe contains other timelines, and that this literally completely contradicts how "universe" is used by Saint Seiya.

Even the blogs in the OP reference scenes like Shaka and Dysonmia in Sho which clearly show how even in the context of the multiverse, "universe" and "different universe" is used no different from what the word normally means.
 
Firestorm808 said:
@TheUnshakableOne

Can you please provide the Japanese scans of the following
  4. - Source please
  6. https://i.imgur.com/ameQMoL.jpeg
  7. https://i.imgur.com/kK1J9QK.jpeg
  8. https://i.imgur.com/i5S8LCy.jpeg
  9. https://imgur.com/FIElyxa - Source please
  10. https://imgur.com/Dve5lBc - Source please
Click to expand...

for number 1 & 4, - Source: Saint Seiya: Next Dimension Chapter 19/Volume 2

this is the japanese scan





For number 2 & 3 - The source is Saint Seiya Saintia Sho chapters 80 & 81

The Japanese scans





For number 5 - The Source is Saint Seiya Volume 25

Japenese scans




For numbers 6, 7, and 8 - Sources are Saint Seiya Volume 27; 21; & 10

the japenese scans




For number 9 - Source is Saint Seiya: Episode G Assassins Chapter 16

Japaense scan




For number 10 - Source is Saint Seiya: Saintia Sho chapter 65

Japanese scan
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Again, the creation of the universe was spreading several galaxies with the clash, consequently one of the galaxies hit Sho. As she was now inside a galaxy of a new universe, she would automatically already be inside that "new world"
Your interpretation is the greatest mental gymnastics I've ever seen
Click to expand...
What clash are you even talking about? Glaxian explosion destroys galaxies not create or spread out galaxies.

All all Gold Saint Techniques destroy. Creation is reserved specifically for Gods, more specifically dunamis.

even more compelling at the bottom of chapter 80 Dysmonia was legit watching Shoko get swallowed up


Then chapter 81 is when she says "creation of a new universe."
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Again, the creation of the universe was spreading several galaxies with the clash, consequently one of the galaxies hit Sho. As she was now inside a galaxy of a new universe, she would automatically already be inside that "new world"
Your interpretation is the greatest mental gymnastics I've ever seen
Click to expand...
No offense, but I can’t understand how you could read Sho, and find eris creating a universe mental gymnastics, when Kyoko literally said it with 0 room for interpretation
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
That's clearly not what it says, no idea how you got that translation. This is that entire phrase:
"同一の宇宙を持ちながら"
持ち means to have, hold, possess etc.
ながら means while in the sense of different simultaneous actions (in this case, it's having identical universes while leading to different futures)
Together, it means "while having."

That's not even to mention how even an idea of "parallel worlds within the same universe" makes 0 sense taken literally to mean a single universe contains other timelines, and that this literally completely contradicts how "universe" is used by Saint Seiya.

Even the blogs in the OP reference scenes like Shaka and Dysonmia in Sho which clearly show how even in the context of the multiverse, "universe" and "different universe" is used no different from what the word normally means.
Click to expand...
I have to do if you speak Japanese? Almost every Japanese person I’ve had look at the scan say the same thing and it’s not what you’re saying.
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
That's clearly not what it says, no idea how you got that translation. This is that entire phrase:
"同一の宇宙を持ちながら"
持ち means to have, hold, possess etc.
ながら means while in the sense of different simultaneous actions (in this case, it's having identical universes while leading to different futures)
Together, it means "while having."
Click to expand...
How is that the entire phrase when it’s missing 2 thirds of Shuras speech bubble. :/
 
Firestorm808 said:
Ah, I see. I got mistaken by the double page Scan. Nevermind.
Click to expand...


it's all good, here's the full page anyway. this one is taken directly from the volume so it's the final rendition of the page. idk where the other one is from
 
Again I do ask people be more specific with what we're agreeing and disagreeing to

the main purpose of this CRT is to establish a cosmology for the verse, it has been incorrectly pointed out this verse has an accepted 2-A MWI cosmology, that's not the case.

The last CRT split the canons to anime and manga respectively, there's no accepted cosmology or cosmology blog for this verse, by blanket disagreeing you're saying you disagree with the verse having a cosmology 😅
 
Shuradou said:
Yeah, I'm not really seeing much solid stuff (best is there's just low 1-C) three, so count me as in disagreement.
Click to expand...
What specifically do you disagree with? So that I can elaborate more on that.

There is several different end results being proposed here.
 
Last edited:
Yeah the blog proposes no tier and can be edited to reflect what’s accepted, but to do that we need some specificity
 
Before I get into the other scans, I'll break down what I've read for Saint Seiya: Next Dimension Chapter 19 first.
As shown in the first scan, the chapter makes a text distinction between "Nebula" and "Universe."

With regard to this supposed universe inside a nebula, this is not in the literal sense. According to the chapter, Athena is at Chronos' Door of Time. Chronus is the one who causes these nebulas in his space to approach him. Athena wants to go back 200 years into the past and visits Chronos to do this. Chronos is the god of time. In Chronos' domain, it makes sense that he can make his personal nebulas act as time portals. If any nebula in the universe could take you to another timeline/universe, this time/dimensional travel would have been common knowledge.

There is also no justification that the destination of these portal nebulae is infinitesimally smaller than where they started. There is no qualitative superiority in this instance. If they are meant to be parallel worlds, they can't be infinitely smaller or larger than each other.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Before I get into the other scans, I'll break down what I've read for Saint Seiya: Next Dimension Chapter 19 first.
As shown in the first scan, the chapter makes a text distinction between "Nebula" and "Universe."

With regard to this supposed universe inside a nebula, this is not in the literal sense. According to the chapter, Athena is at Chronos' Door of Time. Chronus is the one who causes these nebulas in his space to approach him. Athena wants to go back 200 years into the past and visits Chronos to do this. Chronos is the god of time. In Chronos' domain, it makes sense that he can make his personal nebulas act as time portals. If any nebula in the universe could take you to another timeline/universe, this time/dimensional travel would have been common knowledge.

There is also no justification that the destination of these portal nebulae is infinitesimally smaller than where they started. There is no qualitative superiority in this instance. If they are meant to be parallel worlds, they can't be infinitely smaller or larger than each other.
Click to expand...
Other than the super overly complicated stuff, overall you domt disagree with a 5D multiverse at minimum here right?
 
Last edited:
Firestorm808 said:
Before I get into the other scans, I'll break down what I've read for Saint Seiya: Next Dimension Chapter 19 first.
As shown in the first scan, the chapter makes a text distinction between "Nebula" and "Universe."

With regard to this supposed universe inside a nebula, this is not in the literal sense. According to the chapter, Athena is at Chronos' Door of Time. Chronus is the one who causes these nebulas in his space to approach him. Athena wants to go back 200 years into the past and visits Chronos to do this. Chronos is the god of time. In Chronos' domain, it makes sense that he can make his personal nebulas act as time portals. If any nebula in the universe could take you to another timeline/universe, this time/dimensional travel would have been common knowledge.

There is also no justification that the destination of these portal nebulae is infinitesimally smaller than where they started. There is no qualitative superiority in this instance. If they are meant to be parallel worlds, they can't be infinitely smaller or larger than each other.
Click to expand...
Besides the Infinite recursion; there was other proposals. The infinite recursion was simply a "possibly" on my blog


The other proposals are these

#2 -

The Multiverse is 5D due to an uncountably infinite number of Universes being created instantly and simultaneously.

The Multiverse is further implied to be encompassed by a higher spatial dimension and temporal dimension (6D and 7D) The 8th sense then allows for further Reality Fiction difference with the multiverse making the mind and soul 8D for 8th sense and higher users




#3 -

Simply just let be 5D due to an uncountably infinite number of Universes, and the 8th sense be 6D. The other complicated stuff can be discussed in a new CRT



#4 -

The Multiverse is Low 1-A due to this process that i will describe;

Every point in timespace creates an infinite multiverse. Time and space being having uncountbaly infinite points by default with the tiering system.
This creates uncountably infinite universes. This should normally be 5D, but there is more to the process.

The universes created by this process also possess their own futures which exist as universes and there is infinite of those too. So that new set of Uncountably infinite Universes, and new set of Infinite futures, also go on to produce another even bigger uncountably infinite number of universes with their own infinite futures.

This process is eternal and infinite. It keeps repeating, but it all happens instaneously and simultaneously

This Low 1-A Multiverse is then encompassed by a Higher Spatial Dimension, and Temporal Dimension. That no matter how far this process continues. It just won't break, reach, or transcend these higher layers. According to my knowledge of the tiering system that should make those 1-A. Even if they are not, the 8th sense scaling should be due to a Reality ficition difference with the multiverse.





#5 -

Just let it be 2-A and all that complicated mumbo jumbo should be saved for another time when it makes more coherent sense, and is worded better and organized better on a CRT.






Those are the other tiering proposals without the infinite recursion.
 
Firestorm808 said:
If any nebula in the universe could take you to another timeline/universe, this time/dimensional travel would have been common knowledge
Click to expand...
Why? Its not like any characters utilize space travel.
Firestorm808 said:
According to the chapter, Athena is at Chronos' Door of Time. Chronus is the one who causes these nebulas in his space to approach him. Athena wants to go back 200 years into the past and visits Chronos to do this. Chronos is the god of time. In Chronos' domain, it makes sense that he can make his personal nebulas act as time portals.
Click to expand...
So, you are saying that they are portals, because he’s the god of time? Athena tells shun verbatim, these are ALL the nebulas in the universe. She never implies that they are anything less than what they appear to be, and thus you need to prove they actually are portals, not just say it’s an unsaid possibility. Especially cos when he tried to envelop them in one of the nebulas, he called it a dimension, which does imply the structure itself isn’t a portal.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I have a logic question, if every galaxy/nebula are their own dimension/universe, wouldn’t that make every universe nebula/galaxy size?
Click to expand...
Not exactly, that is because by default wiki assumption is if it's called "a universe" and stated/shown to have "space-time dimensions" it's automatically low 2-C.

It simply becomes artistic representation

also there is high 3-A galaxies in G
 
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