Sage Monarch CRT Part 1

[Muchacho_mrm]

Then I'm not sure what you're proposing here?

Resistance for higher cultivators, since well, let alone cultivation stages, the level above stomps the level below.

I'm not sure I'm following why him getting killed makes him negate immortality. Could you elaborate?

Because as long as the countless hells exist, he will too. Killing him is disregarding that. Not to mention in none of his near death experiences does he mention ever the possibility of being resurrected, just his own mortality.

I don't know the verse, so you'll have to explain why it being a devil aura matters.

Auras have different properties in the series. For example

That would be true, however I didn't see a scan saying that a sword traveled through time. I'm assuming you're referencing the third scan here, in which it doesn't say the sword travels through time, it just says it chooses a future

The third scan says that the future is clouded in fog (basically unknowable to those without precog) and that the sword was piercing through it to lay a path leading to it. To elaborate, imagine you're walking on a road and ahead of you is fog, unclear of your destination but then your buddy sends out an attack that pierces the fog and lays out a clear path. Your buddy's attack had to have travelled into the future to lay out the path. Sorry, I couldn't come up with a better explanation. MC himself elaborates.

I don't think there's enough evidence for that, I think qualifying as Law Manipulation may be fine. But this is too little evidence for Conceptual.

I said manipulation comes in a later CRT, so I'm confused by this. If I get the Dao certified as a type 2 or 3 concept, do you mean whatever scan I get will only point towards law manipulation or that the Dao can't be a concept?

I'm not sure what this means.

You said transduality. What did you mean by that.

 

[Zaratthustra]

I mean, so what?


As I said, I am confident it was decided that it is mandatory. If you are able to reference it you should.

This is getting extremely derailing so we should end this topic on this thread. Feel free to message me on my wall or dm me if you wish to continue.

I'll stop saying as you're right it's derailing but looking at the reference history (date of the last update of the page and the reference thread) and that the thread is clearly not closed then it's clearly not finished yet and if it is then the page wasn't updated. Another thing is that seems not many people participated there - one, for example, being I, who, once again going by the date of the thread in that period I was away as I would have strongly been against mandatory references like I was in the first thread which never finished (while I do agree that reference are neat and works really well for tv series, animations, comics and maybe some books/novels, it doesn't work that well for all of them - case by case as for some scans plus a good explanation work better). Anyway, I will likely comment on that thread tomorrow as it's already late here.


@Muchacho_mrm , you should post some examples for the superiority of the cultivation realm to show it by it a feat or a statement to help people not used to reading such novels understand easier.

Good night.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@Zaratthustra

Spoiler: Brief Explanation

There are 9 cultivations stages. Aside from one, the rest have 9 levels inside them. You can't defeat a higher cultivator, with the exceptions being some geniuses that can challenged higher cultivators

So the series is riddled with foes disregarding whatever hax/abilities MC has due to his lower cultivation level and you constantly have chitter-chatter observers commenting on the MC and disparity in levels compared to his opponent, for shock value when he proves them wrong.

The difference between levels isn't arrogance. It's established truth and with level/stage comes a change in quality of a cultivator. Whether it's their soul, will, nascent divinity, enlightenment, body, etc. For example at the Space-Void Legendary level, their manipulation of space, void and Yin & Yang grants them some weird form of spatial intangibility. You can find the fundamental of cultivation stages here. Although I need to update at some point, it's still sufficient.

Anyways, you have higher cultivators being able to wipe out lower cultivators from existence with their gaze. When the disparity in levels reaches a certain point, you have feats such as:
Disregarding a lower cultivator's laws
Literally turning a lower cultivator into his personal mount
EE someone's abilities
Make them explode, not even leaving behind a will, soul, nascent divinity, etc.
Remove their laws and essence.
Mindhax
Existence absorption.
Sentence them to death.
See through their existence.
Fear Hax.

And 1600 chapters of it. The general gist is that only death awaits you if you're up against a higher cultivator regardless of your abilities, unless you're someone like MC. You can find the cultivation level/stage he can defeat or survive against here. Under 'Combat Prowess'. So lower cultivators are mostly just easy pickings.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Resistance for higher cultivators, since well, let alone cultivation stages, the level above stomps the level below.

But you just said that this is not about resistance?

It isn't meant to show resistance. Also, the true energy (just energy) was ignited. It was the spear's energy, which is the MCs. The second scan says: "It was as hard as steel, and pulsed with such frigid energy that it could freeze virtually all other types of true energy."

You'll need to be clearer to what you're trying to do here.

Because as long as the countless hells exist, he will too. Killing him is disregarding that. Not to mention in none of his near death experiences does he mention ever the possibility of being resurrected, just his own mortality.

I mean, alright. But I still don't see why this means he should get negation. Killing him is Immortality Negation for the person that's killing him, not for the MC.

Auras have different properties in the series. For example

Alright. But this scan doesn't show that devil aura is disintegration and not AP though.

The third scan says that the future is clouded in fog (basically unknowable to those without precog) and that the sword was piercing through it to lay a path leading to it. To elaborate, imagine you're walking on a road and ahead of you is fog, unclear of your destination but then your buddy sends out an attack that pierces the fog and lays out a clear path. Your buddy's attack had to have travelled into the future to lay out the path. Sorry, I couldn't come up with a better explanation. MC himself elaborates.

Yes, a "fog" in the sense that there are endless future possibilities and the sword chooses a specific one, not literally cutting the future time axis or something. This is explained in the quote I highlighted.

I said manipulation comes in a later CRT, so I'm confused by this. If I get the Dao certified as a type 2 or 3 concept, do you mean whatever scan I get will only point towards law manipulation or that the Dao can't be a concept?

I'm saying that there wasn't enough evidence to show that the Dao is a type 2 or 3 concept in general.

You said transduality. What did you mean by that.

The quotes you linked would qualify for Transduality (type 2 if I recall correctly).

 

[Orioreeem]

Yin & Yang, the duality present in all aspects of the universe. For instance: Yin is Female / Death/Dark / Cold / soft/the Moon, while Yang is / Hard/Life/Masculine , Light and the Sun. The comparisons are endless. Legendaries are stated to be able to bend Yin-Yang to their will.

This right here would be enough for type 2 right?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

But you just said that this is not about resistance?

You'll need to be clearer to what you're trying to do here.

LMAO. You said:

The first scan didn't really show anything about Resistance to Energy Manipulation

And I said:

It isn't meant to show resistance.

I was showing fodder manipulation and my reasoning was that higher cultivators would naturally have resistance to it.

I mean, alright. But I still don't see why this means he should get negation. Killing him is Immortality Negation for the person that's killing him, not for the MC.

Because he scales above them. The sandbox key covers his pre-ascension into 5-D, when he was the strongest living creature in the lower world. Not to mention anything they can do, he can do better. Any ability able to negate it, his own ones would be superior. The tiers for abilities are: third-class, second-class, first-class, royal-class, imperial-class, saintly-class, heavenly-class, and godly-class.

Within Godly-Class, the sub levels are ranked as follows: lesser, common, greater, consummate, perfect, paramount, and lordly.

MC's ability is lordly class. The people who've found out in the series have either died due to greed or they've become his subordinates.

Alright. But this scan doesn't show that devil aura is disintegration and not AP though.

It's meant to show aura can have properties, another example being a murderous aura that fear haxes and no, not all evil auras are the same. It would conform to whatever they are, for example corpse aura and corpse energy zombifies you.

Yes, a "fog" in the sense that there are endless future possibilities and the sword chooses a specific one, not literally cutting the future time axis or something. This is explained in the quote I highlighted.

The unclear nature of the future is referred to as 'clouds and fog'. It is stated the sword technique:

slash through the clouds and fog to create a solid path leading to it.

Not sure why you're missing this. If someone drove a truck to clear snow off a road, they've travelled down the road, creating a solid path for cars.

MC's says:

Forgetting everything else, this sword technique could pierce the fog of the future, lay a clear path ahead, and allow one to exercise one's will to the fullest.

I really don't know why you're not acknowledging that it's travelling into the future, and considering it's sword projectiles being released and on both occasions, it is stated that it penetrates through the fog of the future + the fact that the way of the sword focuses on speed...I really don't see how precognition holds any ground here.

I'm saying that there wasn't enough evidence to show that the Dao is a type 2 or 3 concept in general.

Please elaborate.

The quotes you linked would qualify for Transduality (type 2 if I recall correctly).

It's not transduality. @Orioreeem

 

[Ogbunabali]

I was showing fodder manipulation and my reasoning was that higher cultivators would naturally have resistance to it.

Why?

Because he scales above them. The sandbox key covers his pre-ascension into 5-D, when he was the strongest living creature in the lower world. Not to mention anything they can do, he can do better. Any ability able to negate it, his own ones would be superior. The tiers for abilities are: third-class, second-class, first-class, royal-class, imperial-class, saintly-class, heavenly-class, and godly-class.

Within Godly-Class, the sub levels are ranked as follows: lesser, common, greater, consummate, perfect, paramount, and lordly.

MC's ability is lordly class. The people who've found out in the series have either died due to greed or they've become his subordinates.

Alright then.

It's meant to show aura can have properties, another example being a murderous aura that fear haxes and no, not all evil auras are the same. It would conform to whatever they are, for example corpse aura and corpse energy zombifies you.

That's fine and all, but unless it's specifically stated that devil aura has the property of disintegration then we're back at square one of that just being AP and giving a "possibly" rating.

I really don't know why you're not acknowledging that it's travelling into the future, and considering it's sword projectiles being released and on both occasions, it is stated that it penetrates through the fog of the future + the fact that the way of the sword focuses on speed...I really don't see how precognition holds any ground here.

As I said, it's not traveling into the future, it's choosing a future.

Ten sword moves were unleashed. Sword energy swept through the entire stone arena and sword light shone in epic fashion, making it seem like an ancient god was striding forward with sword in hand, unleashing the most devastating sword technique possible, seeking to fabricate its own ideal future. The future could be considered a very profound and enigmatic thing, filled with endless possibilities. Even the tiniest factors could change it, but somehow this sword technique seemed to slash through the clouds and fog to create a solid path leading to it.

You're overfocusing on the fog analogy, when we are directly told what the technique specifically does.

Please elaborate.

Not sure how I can elaborate more than that. There is nothing in the quotes that points to type 2 or 3 Conceptual.

It's not transduality

What was linked was pointing to Transduality.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Why?

Because higher cultivation levels are superior? It's briefly detailed in the spoiler box titled 'brief explanation'.

That's fine and all, but unless it's specifically stated that devil aura has the property of disintegration then we're back at square one of that just being AP and giving a "possibly" rating.

Fine by me.

As I said, it's not traveling into the future, it's choosing a future.
You're overfocusing on the fog analogy, when we are directly told what the technique specifically does.

Not arguing that it chooses a future. You're too focused on it choosing a future and yet, you ignore how it does that. It's only able to choose due to knowing the outcomes. This is where you've decided to ignore 3 key components:
1. The Dao of the sword focuses on speed.
2. What was sent out were projectiles.
3. On both occasions it's stated those projectiles pierced and created a path leading to the future.
Even if I ignore the fog analogy, there is still the sword creating a path to it's ideal future.

to create a solid path leading to it

lay a clear path ahead

---

Not sure how I can elaborate more than that. There is nothing in the quotes that points to type 2 or 3 Conceptual.

I asked for elaboration to address whatever points you may have, but I'll handle that CRT another time.

What was linked was pointing to Transduality.

I disagree. Please reread it.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Because higher cultivation levels are superior? It's briefly detailed in the spoiler box titled 'brief explanation'.

I don't know if English isn't your first language or something else, but I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about anymore here.

Can you start from the top and explain why he should resist it?

It's only able to choose due to knowing the outcomes

Yes, it says that it precogs it.

1. The Dao of the sword focuses on speed.

Not really relevant, and where does it say that it only does speed. You can be fast and posses other properties, and it already goes through like 10 different non speed related properties before.

2. What was sent out were projectiles.

So? Doesn't change anything.

3. On both occasions it's stated those projectiles pierced and created a path leading to the future.

They chose a future.

Even if I ignore the fog analogy, there is still the sword creating a path to it's ideal future.

Yes, creating a path by choosing a future it deems favorable.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I don't know if English isn't your first language or something else, but I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about anymore here.

Can you start from the top and explain why he should resist it?

Thought you would ctrl+f and find what is in apostrophe in my post.

Not really relevant, and where does it say that it only does speed. You can be fast and posses other properties, and it already goes through like 10 different non speed related properties before.

Which is your own interpretation I'm trying to argue against since I'm the one claiming it's speed related.

So? Doesn't change anything.

Projectiles that are stated twice to penetrate.

They chose a future.
Yes, creating a path by choosing a future it deems favorable.

Except it's stated to penetrate and:

to create a solid path leading to it

lay a clear path ahead

Which you seem to be ignoring. The path leading to it has been laid out by the sword.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Thought you would ctrl+f and find what is in apostrophe in my post.

Alright then, I'll just be rejecting this because no evidence is presented and you're refusing to elaborate.

Which is your own interpretation I'm trying to argue against since I'm the one claiming it's speed related.

So you have nothing to show that it's only speed related?

Projectiles that are stated twice to penetrate.

Penetrate the fog, which is a metaphor for seeing the future.

Which you seem to be ignoring. The path leading to it has been laid out by the sword.

And you are continuously ignoring that we are explicitly told what the ability explicitly does, and it's not vague speculation on a metaphor that also aligns with the explicit description given

Ten sword moves were unleashed. Sword energy swept through the entire stone arena and sword light shone in epic fashion, making it seem like an ancient god was striding forward with sword in hand, unleashing the most devastating sword technique possible, seeking to fabricate its own ideal future. The future could be considered a very profound and enigmatic thing, filled with endless possibilities. Even the tiniest factors could change it, but somehow this sword technique seemed to slash through the clouds and fog to create a solid path leading to it.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Alright then, I'll just be rejecting this because no evidence is presented and you're refusing to elaborate.

Elaboration is under a spoiler tag in this thread. I don't know how to link posts.

So you have nothing to show that it's only speed related?

Never said it's only speed related. Literally agreed with you on it choosing a future.

Penetrate the fog, which is a metaphor for seeing the future.

Again, your own interpretation. Which still baffles me.

And you are continuously ignoring that we are explicitly told what the ability explicitly does, and it's not vague speculation on a metaphor that also aligns with the explicit description given

Why do you keep highlighting something, then adding your own definition/interpretation. We're explicitly told:

seeking to fabricate its own ideal future.

seek​

/siːk/
verb
attempt to find (something)

And we're told the method:

this sword technique seemed to slash through the clouds and fog to create a solid path leading to it.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I'll go to sleep now. I'll reply tomorrow. This has been fun, so to look forward to something else tomorrow, I wonder what you think of this.

As for immeasurable at worst I'll change the justification to immeasurable for MC The way of sword focuses on speed. Being able to pierce through time. MC pierces through time with his sword.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Elaboration is under a spoiler tag in this thread. I don't know how to link posts.

You can click the "Reply" button on the bottom left of the comment.

But, alright, it's fine then.

Why do you keep highlighting something, then adding your own definition/interpretation. We're explicitly told:

Again, you're the one that's just creating a completely new definition based on a singular metaphor that is incompatible with the description of the technique

Ten sword moves were unleashed. Sword energy swept through the entire stone arena and sword light shone in epic fashion, making it seem like an ancient god was striding forward with sword in hand, unleashing the most devastating sword technique possible, seeking to fabricate its own ideal future. The future could be considered a very profound and enigmatic thing, filled with endless possibilities. Even the tiniest factors could change it, but somehow this sword technique seemed to slash through the clouds and fog to create a solid path leading to it.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

'singular metaphor'. Except I'm using both that quote and MC's observation, but define it as a metaphor or whatever, I digress.

All that's left is to get a conceptual expert.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Went through the sandbox and added references.

Edit: I added immortality type 7. Explanation is under 'Fourth edit' in OP.

Second edit: I'll bump the thread every 3 days or weekly.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Zaratthustra]

What's been accepted can be applied. Also, can you mention what's left to debate?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

What's been accepted can be applied. Also, can you mention what's left to debate?

Whether dao is concept hax and immesurable Speed? The rest has been accepted.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Do you @Muchacho_mrm have any other statement/feat regarding these?

I will look again at those later tonight as now I'm at work and if nothing else new is added then we could try to finish this thread.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Do you @Muchacho_mrm have any other statement/feat regarding these?

I will look again at those later tonight as now I'm at work and if nothing else new is added then we could try to finish this thread.

The new justification:
The way of sword focuses on speed. Being able to pierce through time. MC pierces through time with his sword.

The last scan and this were both done with the will. No, not the aspect of consciousness. The will in the series is a standalone aspect of a cultivator's existence just like the soul. I guess his current speed rating on his profile from like 600 chapters ago can serve as his base speed instead of it being unknown, so I guess it should be like:

Speed: Massively FTL+ movement speed (Massively scales above his fodder self), Possibly Omnipresent (within the timeline with his Will), Immeasurable with Sword Will (The way of sword focuses on speed. Being able to pierce through time. MC pierces through time with his sword.)


Also I added this:
immortality type 7. Cultivators can exist as abstractions (wills) and Nascent Divinities upon physical death.

Other than that, what's left is the conceptual stuff and possibly what I should do with mind manipulation since the soul is the cultivator's mind. Although I'm leaning on removing mind manipulation for all SM profiles and explaining it in the soul manipulation part.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Zaratthustra]

For the soul/mind stuff is easy: put it as unconventional soul manipulation (explain that his soul is his mind)

Immortality seems fine.

Omnipresence can be put directly as it states that his 'will' become one with the past, present and future.

His immeasurable speed, not that sure - in the last scan (mc pierces...) seems the most obvious one as it says that his 'sword pierced the future' but i'm not sure what it means by 'seeking the dao' part.

@Planck69 , any opinion on this as you've read a part of the novel.

 

[Planck69]

Didn't they specifically need special methods to invade the present?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Didn't they specifically need special methods to invade the present?

They used Brahma's head (which was in the future) to connect to his heart (which is in the present). Pretty sure MC messed with it and Proud Heaven still came to the present. Not to mention the powerlevel needed to connect to the past and future? The likes of Proud Heaven reached it, considering he literally absorbed the past and future during his fight with Yang Qi, while Brahma himself was so weak, he needed protection by Yang Qi.

Edit: Also, that was in regards to sending fodder to the present. The true bodies of the magisters and Proud Heaven were focused on the ancient past.

 

[Antvasima]

What has been accepted by our staff here so far, and which staff members have responded here?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

What has been accepted by our staff here so far, and which staff members have responded here?

The tier 1 stuff has been accepted. The only things discussed is immesurable speed, concept hax and other abilities

 

[Antvasima]

The tier 1 stuff has been accepted. The only things discussed is immesurable speed, concept hax and other abilities

Okay please elaborate/explain further, preferably in an easy to understand manner.

Also, I saw Zaratthustra and Ogbunabali listed in the first post of this thread, but what does Planck think?

 

[Planck69]

I was alright with most of the abilities brought up in the OP but I'm not entirely sure what new ones were brought up.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

What has been accepted by our staff here so far, and which staff members have responded here?

Ogbunabali (former staff now) and Zaratthustra.

Everything except conceptual & immeasurable has been accepted. The former, one part was rejected while the other is stuck in limbo. As for the latter, I'm waiting for Planck69 to agree or disagree. I won't argue for it anymore.

Also deconstruction would need a note that it's possibly not from AP.

I was alright with most of the abilities brought up in the OP but I'm not entirely sure what new ones were brought up.

Immmortality type 7 since they can exists as wills or nascent divinity upon physical death. Not sure if you missed it but I said Matter manipulation and transmutation for Great Sages and above

 

[Antvasima]

I was alright with most of the abilities brought up in the OP but I'm not entirely sure what new ones were brought up.

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Antvasima]

Ogbunabali (former staff now) and Zaratthustra.

Everything except conceptual & immeasurable has been accepted. The former, one part was rejected while the other is stuck in limbo. As for the latter, I'm waiting for Planck69 to agree or disagree. I won't argue for it anymore.

Also deconstruction would need a note that it's possibly not from AP.

Okay, and what statistics would these characters have then?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Okay, and what statistics would these characters have then?

Low 1C to possibly 1C

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Okay, and what statistics would these characters have then?

If you mean tier, what was accepted in this thread.