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Important: A new rule about References

AKM sama

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Heya all!

This is an announcement.

As discussed in this thread, the "References" section in character profiles is no longer optional. It is extremely important that all of us try to start using references for important information in profile pages from now on.

Here is the instruction page on how to use them: References

Okay, but why though?

  • There is a recurring problem that the wiki has always faced. We put links to scans, manga panels, youtube videos, etc. on pages to provide evidence for some justification. And after some time, many of the links/videos end up broken. In such scenarios, references will help us quickly grab hold of the required evidence because we'd know exactly where to find them.
  • While uploading pics to the wiki or imgur works to a certain extent, a normal viewer doesn't get the entire context from one or two scans. References will provide them an option to go and check whatever context they want for themselves.
  • It is far more professional and increases our reliability.
  • It is also a great safety cover for us in a potential scenario where image/video links are removed by Fandom, or image hosting sites like Imgur are forced to remove all of their comic book, manga, etc. images due to stricter copyright legislation from the EU and US governments.
So... are pages without references going to be deleted?

No. 99% of the pages don't have references as of yet. This is going to be a gradual process, but it is highly advised that supporters of the verses start adding references to the important character pages and information blogs. You can create revision threads for this purpose. And it is highly encouraged to include the references section in any new pages you make from this point on. Mainly, important scans that are linked to and powers that are not self-evident should all get references where they were shown. With time, this will be enforced with more strictness.

Here's a well-structured page with references as an example. You can check it out as this will help you get a better idea.
 
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Does this include verse power/ability pages and cosmology blogs? I imagine probably so

What about mangas that solely rely on fan translations? For example in Saint Seiya fan translators break stuff up by individual chapters instead of posting whole volumes. Do we post the chapters as reference or volume #?


What about scans that come from video game trailers or previews something similar to DragonBall heroes?
 
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References are always a nice thing to have, obviously they make the profile making/editing process a bit more tedious but it's nothing too crazy. Noticed that for comic profiles the reference page mentions to add the year the issue was released, so I'll have to take a little bit of time later to add that to the references for Pluto as well, should only take maybe an hour (Also very flattering that my Pluto profile is being used as an example for how to handle references).
 

Antvasima

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Does this include verse power/ability pages and cosmology blogs? I imagine probably so
Preferably yes.
What about mangas that solely rely on fan translations? For example in Saint Seiya fan translators break stuff up by individual chapters instead of posting whole volumes. Do we post the chapters as reference or volume #?
Chapter numbers should be fine, yes.
What about scans that come from video game trailers or previews something similar to DragonBall heroes?
We should preferably not scale from unfinished or unreleased products.
 

Antvasima

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Question, do we only have to make references for a link to a specific scan or statement?

Or every justification in general?
Well, usually everything that isn't self-evident or backed up by a calculation blog should preferably get a reference, but you can prioritise the most important ones. We are not Wikipedia. We just want our wiki to turn more reliable, improve our reputation, and to take safety measures in case most of our scan links are eventually taken down.
 

DemonGodMitchAubin

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Well, everything that isn't self-evident or backed up by a calculation blog should preferably get a reference, but you can prioritise the most important ones. We are not Wikipedia. We just want our wiki to turn more reliable, and to take safety measures in case most of our scan links are eventually taken down.
Ok, this will take some time then
 

Antvasima

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Well, if they contain any information that is not self-evident or backed up by calculation blogs (including scaling by linking to other characters that have performed feats), some references can probably be added, but otherwise it should probably be fine.
 
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And what about profiles(most of mine) that really don't need references because literally everything can be seen on the links at the standard tactics section of the page?

Though I'm gonna have a lot of pain trying to track down everything for Darksiders, and won't bother with Warcraft(good excuse for the verse to be deleted if you ask me.)
 

Antvasima

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And what about profiles(most of mine) that really don't need references because literally everything can be seen on the links at the standard tactics section of the page?
Are you referring to image and video links? They are in constant danger of being removed, so references are preferable to use in combination.
 

DemonGodMitchAubin

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Pretty much all of my links lead to images that are on the wiki, I have other stuff on the site that takes priority, and I am going back to school very soon, so I'll be very busy

This is by no means something I have the time to do right this moment, but I guarantee that eventually overtime I'll implement these changes on my profiles, luckily I have very few things that are not self evident on the profiles
 

Antvasima

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Pretty much all of my links lead to images that are on the wiki, I have other stuff on the site that takes priority, and I am going back to school very soon, so I'll be very busy

This is by no means something I have the time to do right this moment, but I guarantee that eventually overtime I'll implement these changes on my profiles, luckily I have very few things that are not self evident on the profiles
That isn't a problem. This is not a sudden enormous project, just a gradual process to prioritise in the long run.
 

Elizhaa

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Though it might take time, I will add references to verse profiles that I am familiar with.
 

Antvasima

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Thank you for helping out. Please remember that there is no stress with this project. It can take years. The important thing is that it gets done to most profile pages eventually.
 
Alright so a few simple questions. for a verse where powers are more generic would it be better to put something "X game, X skill", and "X game, from X class"? the other is. If a part of the verse has a living ruleset that updates character powers and abilities, would if be best to put "X game, X Update number"?
 

Antvasima

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Well, the skills should not be listed within the references themselves, just in what manga chapter they were displayed, for example.

Please read our References instruction page for further information.
 
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The beauty of this thread almost brought a tear to my eye.

Some of the questions mentioned here (should novel number or chapter number be used for fan translations) are answered in the References page I didn't know existed until just now.

Looks like I'll even need to update my pages which already have references to better fit the standard format, but I'm just glad this is getting wider and wider adoption.
 

Celestial_Pegasus

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Been adding references to all my new pages, as for other pages, mostly just done the most popular characters of the verses, not really tackling entire verses right now, except isekai at peace, since pretty much all the characters have references.

That's gonna take a long time, honestly comes down to if i have time and feel like it.

Friday i will probably do Hajime Nagumo next.
 
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Now I will note that doing a verse like Warhammer 40K... yeah not gonna happen. Way too damn many books to go through for everything.
 
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If no-one currently or will ever know what any of the sources for Warhammer 40K are or where they come from, that sounds like a massive issue.

Don't be so pessimistic. It doesn't have to be done all at once right this second.
Crabwhale is at least a bit knowledgeable, I think Wokistan is a bit knowledgeable as well, but I'm not in the WH40K revision discord so I don't know outside of that

Sorry for being pessimistic, and I know that
 

Mr._Bambu

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Tllm has already been progressively doing this for D&D pages- going back and patching them up. I suppose I can occasionally do so as well. We've been requiring References sections for quite some time, though, for the verse.
 

Antvasima

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Thank you for helping out. There is no great hurry though.
 

KingPin0422

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So, I'm assuming we're extending this requirement to information pages, right? If so, then the gravitational binding energy page needs citations - not only for its planetary formula, but for its stellar formula as well. The first one should be trivial since we can just pluck it off of Wikipedia, but as for the other one, I can't find any citations for it on the Internet despite intensive searching. The fact that this allegedly more accurate method for calculating the GBE of a star isn't already widespread makes our values for High 5-A and upwards questionable due to the lack of a reference that our members can use.

What makes this even worse is that based on what I could find, nobody can agree on what the GBE of the Sun is: we give one value (5.693×10^41 J), Wikipedia presents another value (2.276×10^41 J), and a few scientific papers (don't have them on me RN) end with yet another value (3.8×10^41 J). While these values aren't dramatically different from one another, it still demonstrates a potentially major issue: namely, that the lack of a provided citation for our GBE formula for stars, combined with other sources coming up with multiple different values for the GBE of the Sun (whereas the GBE of Earth and Mercury are well-known), makes it look like we just pulled the formula out of thin air.

To top it all off, if it turns out that we are wrong about star GBE after all, we will have to revise tier 4 and tier 3 yet again, in which case we run the risk of putting stress on the calculation group as they scramble to update all of the relevant calculations and on other users (staff or not) as they find themselves having to search potentially thousands of pages for updates that need to be done. Plus, seeing as people are going back to school around this time of year, it would be unfortunate timing for such sweeping changes, to say the least.

I'm hopeful that it doesn't come to this and we can successfully cite where we got the formula for star GBE from without having to overhaul a sizable portion of the tiering system, but I didn't want this issue to be overlooked, either - it's something that I've noticed a while ago, and this seems like a good opportunity to bring it to the staff team's attention. I'd also like to apologize if I'm sounding dramatic, as that is not my intention and it certainly isn't the end of the world if we have to move stuff around because of a simple mistake.



On a more on-topic note, I can help out with adding references to the Cthulhu Mythos pages, though we do still have some more revisions lined up for the verse, so it depends on how the other people working on the verse (Ultima, Kira, etc.) are feeling, I guess.
 
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Antvasima

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So, I'm assuming we're extending this requirement to information pages, right? If so, then the gravitational binding energy page needs citations - not only for its planetary formula, but for its stellar formula as well. The first one should be trivial since we can just pluck it off of Wikipedia, but as for the other one, I can't find any citations for it on the Internet despite intensive searching. The fact that this allegedly more accurate method for calculating the GBE of a star isn't already widespread makes our values for High 5-A and upwards questionable due to the lack of a reference that our members can use.

What makes this even worse is that based on what I could find, nobody can agree on what the GBE of the Sun is: we give one value (5.693×10^41 J), Wikipedia presents another value (2.276×10^41 J), and a few scientific papers (don't have them on me RN) end with yet another value (3.8×10^41 J). While these values aren't dramatically different from one another, it still demonstrates a potentially major issue: namely, that the lack of a provided citation for our GBE formula for stars, combined with other sources coming up with multiple different values for the GBE of the Sun (whereas the GBE of Earth and Mercury are well-known), makes it look like we just pulled the formula out of thin air.

To top it all off, if it turns out that we are wrong about star GBE after all, we will have to revise tier 4 and tier 3 yet again, in which case we run the risk of putting stress on the calculation group as they scramble to update all of the relevant calculations and on other users (staff or not) as they find themselves having to search potentially thousands of pages for updates that need to be done. Plus, seeing as people are going back to school around this time of year, it would be unfortunate timing for such sweeping changes, to say the least.

I'm hopeful that it doesn't come to this and we can successfully cite where we got the formula for star GBE from without having to overhaul a sizable portion of the tiering system, but I didn't want this issue to be overlooked, either - it's something that I've noticed a while ago, and this seems like a good opportunity to bring it to the staff team's attention. I'd also like to apologize if I'm sounding dramatic, as that is not my intention and it certainly isn't the end of the world if we have to move stuff around because of a simple mistake.



On a more on-topic note, I can help out with adding references to the Cthulhu Mythos pages, though we do still have some more revisions lined up for the verse, so it depends on how the other people working on the verse (Ultima, Kira, etc.) are feeling, I guess.
@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @Ugarik @DMUA @Damage3245 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @KieranH10 @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @Amelia_Lonelyheart

Do any of you know where to find this reference? I would appreciate the help.
 
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didn't we all learn about APA or MLA format already, this is like applying ur homework (non)skills that ur alrdy doing right now
 
So, I'm assuming we're extending this requirement to information pages, right? If so, then the gravitational binding energy page needs citations - not only for its planetary formula, but for its stellar formula as well. The first one should be trivial since we can just pluck it off of Wikipedia, but as for the other one, I can't find any citations for it on the Internet despite intensive searching. The fact that this allegedly more accurate method for calculating the GBE of a star isn't already widespread makes our values for High 5-A and upwards questionable due to the lack of a reference that our members can use.

What makes this even worse is that based on what I could find, nobody can agree on what the GBE of the Sun is: we give one value (5.693×10^41 J), Wikipedia presents another value (2.276×10^41 J), and a few scientific papers (don't have them on me RN) end with yet another value (3.8×10^41 J). While these values aren't dramatically different from one another, it still demonstrates a potentially major issue: namely, that the lack of a provided citation for our GBE formula for stars, combined with other sources coming up with multiple different values for the GBE of the Sun (whereas the GBE of Earth and Mercury are well-known), makes it look like we just pulled the formula out of thin air.

To top it all off, if it turns out that we are wrong about star GBE after all, we will have to revise tier 4 and tier 3 yet again, in which case we run the risk of putting stress on the calculation group as they scramble to update all of the relevant calculations and on other users (staff or not) as they find themselves having to search potentially thousands of pages for updates that need to be done. Plus, seeing as people are going back to school around this time of year, it would be unfortunate timing for such sweeping changes, to say the least.

I'm hopeful that it doesn't come to this and we can successfully cite where we got the formula for star GBE from without having to overhaul a sizable portion of the tiering system, but I didn't want this issue to be overlooked, either - it's something that I've noticed a while ago, and this seems like a good opportunity to bring it to the staff team's attention. I'd also like to apologize if I'm sounding dramatic, as that is not my intention and it certainly isn't the end of the world if we have to move stuff around because of a simple mistake.



On a more on-topic note, I can help out with adding references to the Cthulhu Mythos pages, though we do still have some more revisions lined up for the verse, so it depends on how the other people working on the verse (Ultima, Kira, etc.) are feeling, I guess.
For GBE I have saved on my laptop official sources from universities and professors that has various GBE's from the moon, Earth, Jupiter, Sun and iirc even the galaxy figured out already. I can post them once I get home.
 

Antvasima

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Thank you for the help DontTalk. Would you be willing to add a reference for this as requested please?
 
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Could someone help me about reformating the two profiles about Monkie Kid? I have added references for the two profiles long before the policy came out, but I have real life things to do and I currently don't have enough time to change these references on my own.
 
So one question, if 90% of the character's ability are located on one single page of a certain comic/manga/light novel/any books in general, must i put the same reference on all these abilities?
 

Antvasima

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There is a way to use the same reference multiple times through some easy to use code.

Please read our References page to learn how to do so.
 
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By the way, some of the references I used were from tabletop rpg manuals so I just structured it like this:

[Franchise/Verse]; [Manual Title] (Edition/Volume); pg. #

Example:

Warhammer Fantasy; Tome of Corruption (2nd Edition Fantasy Roleplay); pg. 242
 
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A warning: Tabbers don't seem to work properly with references, if I click a reference link and it happens to be within a tabber section, it just jumps to the top of the page.
I think that's fine; most people will be navigating from the page's text to the references section, which works fine. Also, going from the references section to a tabber works if that tabber's open; it only jumps to the top when a different tabber's open.
 
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I think that's fine; most people will be navigating from the page's text to the references section, which works fine. Also, going from the references section to a tabber works if that tabber's open; it only jumps to the top when a different tabber's open.
I see.
 

Antvasima

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By the way, some of the references I used were from tabletop rpg manuals so I just structured it like this:

[Franchise/Verse]; [Manual Title] (Edition/Volume); pg. #

Example:

Warhammer Fantasy; Tome of Corruption (2nd Edition Fantasy Roleplay); pg. 242
As long as you provide specifics that makes the information easy to find if necessary, I think that a certain amount of improvisation is acceptable.
 

Antvasima

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I think that's fine; most people will be navigating from the page's text to the references section, which works fine. Also, going from the references section to a tabber works if that tabber's open; it only jumps to the top when a different tabber's open.
Thank you for the information.
 

Mr._Bambu

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By the way, some of the references I used were from tabletop rpg manuals so I just structured it like this:

[Franchise/Verse]; [Manual Title] (Edition/Volume); pg. #

Example:

Warhammer Fantasy; Tome of Corruption (2nd Edition Fantasy Roleplay); pg. 242
fKFkcYR.png


Just to add to this that D&D does this as well, barring instances where names aren't repeated across editions.
 

Firestorm808

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It's good to see this become an official standard compared to when I first started adding them to our comic profiles.
 
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Currently trying to handle things on the Total Drama front. I have to ask, when referencing episodes of a TV show, should I write the actual name of the episode, or is just the season and episode number fine?
 

Antvasima

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It is not strictly necessary, but it probably helps the people who wish to look up the episode to check.
 
Question;

If your using an imgur album and it has 48 different images (supporting evidence). Each image is the same ability but comes from a different chapter, volume, work, etc

Does each image in the imgur album need to be properly referenced?
 
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That'd be ideal. It's a pain to go back and re-add references for stuff like that, but it's not that bad if you add references to dozens of images when you first collect them as evidence.
 
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Alright, so I do Azure Striker Gunvolt stuff. While obviously most of our stuff comes from the games, but some of our stuff comes from audio dramas, OST booklets and other things of the sort. Which all are exclusively in Japanese, forcing us to rely on fan translations.

So how exactly do we cite those?
 
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Fan translations don't really change the citation process. At worst, it means you don't get to include the optional pagecount, and have to go with a fan-translated title of the installment rather than something official.

If you still want a more concrete example, Kokken Sabi's references are all for a fan-translated audio drama.
 
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How do we format references for, like, comics and manga?

I've been doing "[Name of Story] #[Chapter/Issue] (pg. [Page Number])" (e.g., "Spy × Family #1 (pg. 21)"), but that just looks off to me at times, especially when viewing all of the references together at the bottom of the page.
 

Antvasima

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How do we format references for, like, comics and manga?

I've been doing "[Name of Story] #[Chapter/Issue] (pg. [Page Number])" (e.g., "Spy × Family #1 (pg. 21)"), but that just looks off to me at times, especially when viewing all of the references together at the bottom of the page.
"Spy x Family, chapter 1, page 21" or somesuch seems fine to me. As long as it is easy to understand and looks reasonably good, it should probably be acceptable.
 
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Just to add to the tabbers thing I don't really find how it works visually appealing. Is there any way for the reference section to not be stuck in tabbers
 
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