Sage Monarch CRT Part 1

[Muchacho_mrm]

Abilities​

Agree: Setsuna_tenma, ActuallySpaceMan, Zaratthustra, Ogbunabali (limited deconstruction)​

Disagree:​

Conceptual​

Agree: Setsuna_tenma, ActuallySpaceMan, Zaratthustra​

Disagree: Ogbunabali (Dao Part)​

Immeasurable​

Agree:​

Disagree: Ogbunabali (Sword God Scan)​

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Edit: This thread is handling keys and new abilities for his new keys. A continuation of this thread https://vsbattles.com/threads/sage-monoarch-tier-1.128536/

Second Edit: His second key should get precognition
Third edit: Matter manipulation and transmutation for Great Sages and above
Fourth edit: Added immortality type 7. Cultivators can exist as abstractions (wills) and Nascent Divinities upon physical death.

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Firstly from a previously accepted CRT, I forgot to add resistance to matter manipulation and inorganic physiology. Since his atoms are spatial dimensions https://vsbattles.com/threads/sage-monarch-extremely-minor-addition.78753/

I decided to reread and build the series from the ground up. Stronger cultivators resist the abilities of weaker cultivators and abilities are generally shared among them unless they're clan/race/item/physique/system specific. This CRT is just part 1, as I have other stuff in the works but I feel like his keys should be made first to conclude a previous CRT and I'll do a CRT later to further add abilities.

His new key will be a stronger version of his current self and his keys will be:


|Pre-God World | God World | Ascended |

The Sandbox​

Something like "All previous abilities but to a higher degree" for his God World key and Ascended key.

For now, all keys will be like this, until a future CRT.

MC's new resistances:

Existence Erasure, Chaos Manipulation, elemental manipulation, transmutation, subjective reality, spatial manipulation, power modification, power removal, Hallucination, Light manipulation, Dark Manipulation, Disease Manipulation , Paralysis and Deconstruction for scaling above users, including himself (his current profile and below)

He should also get resistance to energy manipulation, for scaling above users that can ignite your energy or freeze it

Chaos Manipulation as they absorb it for cultivation and chaos manipulation

I didn't add subjective reality before for their domains

Light manipulation. Use the light of the moon

Resistance to Hallucination

Resistance to Transmutation for anyone that passes their Eternal Godwing Transmutation which includes MC
And transmutation for the MC for transforming someone into energy for him to absorb their abilities

Resistance to Disease Manipulation

Resistance to Lightning Manipulation

Immortality type 8 for Yang Qi and negation for his current key

He already has powernull so paralysis

Immortality type 4 for Legendaries and above and negation for Yang Qi and those above

His range to Multiversal and possibly Multiversal+ Casually does so with his spear. This applies to people at the Godmyth level too.

Illusion Creation with Life-Death Void Destruction Lightning

Power modification for Yang Qi. He turned an attack into a blessing

Data Manipulation and interaction for Yang Qi

Passive deconstruction

He should get biological manipulation


Not sure if this would be mid-godly or low-godly since a Flood wyrm's body was destroyed and reformed his body with his nascent divinity, since the nascent divinity is just the ego.

Yang Qi already has [[Size Manipulation]], however I think I should add that he can be '''Universal''' in size. He reached out and grabbed and immortal world and ripped it out of it's place in primal chaos. Something even the most furthest away people could see what happened. To give you some idea, the lowest ranked immortal world is bigger than our observable universe and the location he's in has trillions of such immortal worlds and he was still able to stretch out his hands beyond them. Not to mention the space between immortal worlds are usually the size of hundred of thousand of immortal worlds.

Immeasurable?

Firstly, Possibly for sword attacks. The way of sword focuses on speed. Being able to pierce through time. This guy's sword attacks pierces through the timeline. (<-- This last scan has been rejected by Ogbunabali)

New justification for immeasurable: The way of sword focuses on speed. Being able to pierce through time. MC pierces through time with his sword.

Some new abilities to add:

Hell Scourge: Summons a whip that can have the essence of hells, he can add others essences too, such as the Hell of Humiliation. This should also fall under Pain Manipulation and Sense Manipulation? The damnification effect light of clarity is used which gave him clarity of mind and increased the pain, I suppose.

Heaven-God Hell-Exterminating Devil Embryo: It drains the opponent of their essence like a parasite.

Omnicurse. A move that wrests control of your faculties.

Angels wings are now Freedom Wings with the ability to blitz himself into other universe with just sheer speed since dimension travel is a basic ability at his level.

Infernal Deity Spear is now composed of hells and passively radiates the essences of those hells.

Add that Devil-God Seal can seal minds

There are other abilities but I'm trying to understand them and will post in another CRT in the future.

Spoiler: Conceptual

The Dao Of Heaven seemed like a type 3 concept, the 'objects' that represent it are the hearts of the people and laws of each immortal world. Destroying them both would destroy it. However it is explained that even in the event that it loses all it's 'objects', it would exist. This is later backed up by the fact that the dao of heaven existed in the ancient primordial chaos, making it present before any universe. (Dao has been rejected by rejected by Ogbunabali)

Type 3 with duality (not sure what type you get for manipulating the system of duality to your will)?

Yin & Yang, the duality present in all aspects of the universe. For instance: Yin is Female / Death/Dark / Cold / soft/the Moon, while Yang is / Hard/Life/Masculine , Light and the Sun. The comparisons are endless. Legendaries are stated to be able to bend Yin-Yang to their will.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree on the rest neutral on acausality

 

[Planck69]

Maybe make a sandbox so we can see what the profile will look like?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Maybe make a sandbox so we can see what the profile will look like?

No problem. Will finish the sandbox profile by the end of the day. Possibly.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

My god, it's like looking in a mirror... Anyway looks good, Acausality is iffy though.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

something like this for the keys or the 3 keys in OP. Minus the stuff in spoiler.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

something like this for the keys or the 3 keys in OP. Minus the stuff in spoiler.

yes

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Do the next keys hold any ability or its just scaling higher? Cause I see only the first having anything different while the following two nothing.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Do the next keys hold any ability or its just scaling higher? Cause I see only the first having anything different while the following two nothing.

It's scaling higher and they do hold abilities. If the 3 keys one passes, then it would only be his second key. If it bothers people, I can just add one ability right now for his second key (still talking about the 3 keys sandbox)

 

[Zaratthustra]

When Planck asked for sandbox I'm sure he meant a more complete one not just a key if you intend to add 3 at once.

If the 2nd and 3rd new keys will have only scaling but on the same tier then you should make just one but extend/explain more the scaling. If not then better finish the keys formatting first.

I'll look at the abilities later as I'm not home rn.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

The second keys abilities will be in a future CRT. The third key will not have any abilities, because that's MC ascending end of the story. I've updated OP with one ability for his second key.

 

[Planck69]

1. If the other keys are for abilities to be added in the future then they can be added when those threads happened. As is, it just makes the profile look sloppy.

2. Have we ever decided what to do with his ascension and whether it's transcendence or not? If not then can we settle that here?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

1. If the other keys are for abilities to be added in the future then they can be added when those threads happened. As is, it just makes the profile look sloppy.

2. Have we ever decided what to do with his ascension and whether it's transcendence or not? If not then can we settle that here?

1. I've decided to go with the 3 keys sandbox. His second key has an ability added here and in OP and his third key will not have abilities.
2. In-verse it's a different state, thus a different key. If you meant the site's rules, he scales above Proud Heaven who took the God World and absorbed it.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Abilities look good but I would look another input on the transduality and acausality type 5, while NEP is good. You should add the nature/types for it in the OP.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Done. Also MC should get matter manipulation and transmutation for scaling above Great Sages.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Done. Also MC should get matter manipulation and transmutation for scaling above Great Sages.

Seems okay.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

 

[Orioreeem]

So let's see if i got this right. On his 3 keys profile, second key would be 5D possibly 8D and third key would be 6D possibly 9D. And we should go for three key profile rather then the one with 4 keys it looks much better.

 

[Hasty12345]

I'm sorry, can I get an explanation on why this is type 5 acausality please?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I'm sorry, can I get an explanation on why this is type 5 acausality please?

If you mean the Acausality first spoiler box:​

He already has type 4 Acausality. What happens if someone like that leaves the setting of their verse? Which is why there is a question mark, because I have no idea.

---

If you mean the second Acausality spoiler box:​

Type 4 Acausality going further beyond in not interacting with cause and effect and being unable to be interacted with.

 

[Hasty12345]

I don't really see how "leaving the setting of the verse" would imply the characters are above the causal systems of the verse. Even if already having type 4 acausality. I'd expect needing explicit mentions of being above or disregarding causal systems or some analogue for such an ability.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Makes sense, however, I'm still leaning on my initial proposition because of 2 reasons.
1. Type 5 isn't systems (plural)
2. Someone outside of regular causality leaving the narrative.

At best Acausality type 5. At worst, limited resistance to plot manipulation (plot removal) (can exist outside the narrative). ¯\◠‿◠/¯

 

[Hasty12345]

I use "systems" as type 4 because entirely redundant otherwise. The fact your character has type 4 acausality already implies the verse has at least 2 systems of cause and effect "regular" and "irregular". Given type 4 acausality exists, I think the intended interpretation of type 5 is to transcend all causal systems within the verse, which would most likely require a statement. I'm not sure ascending to higher narrative planes inherently grant type 5.

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. Even interacting with them normally may prove virtually impossible.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

You seem to have misunderstood me there on the first point. Of-course there exists a different system, since he's well, type 4. The entire point is him leaving the narrative. Someone operating outside of regular causuality leaving the borders of their setting. As Acausality type 5 says: "existing outside of the causality of a system" (not plural).

It's the regular system he is leaving behind...Even though he's not bound by it. It also could be his system. If there is precedent with these type of situation, I would really appreciate if someone helps.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This is why I suggested long ago Acausality type 4 and 5 needs a definition rewrite

 

[Hasty12345]

You seem to have misunderstood me there on the first point. Of-course there exists a different system, since he's well, type 4. The entire point is him leaving the narrative. Someone operating outside of regular causuality leaving the borders of their setting. As Acausality type 5 says: "existing outside of the causality of a system" (not plural).

It's the regular system he is leaving behind...Even though he's not bound by it. It also could be his system. If there is precedent with these type of situation, I would really appreciate if someone helps.

This sounds like type 4 though, and I don’t think the character already being type 4 actually helps get type 5.

im not going to stone wall, however, it would be good if a knowledgeable staff member on Acausality could clarify.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I'll give it 24 more hours before I remove the last 2 spoiler boxes for a future CRT.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I've done what I said above and this is a shameless bump.

 

[Ogbunabali]

He should also get resistance to energy manipulation, for scaling above users that can ignite your energy or freeze it

The first scan didn't really show anything about Resistance to Energy Manipulation, it seems to have transformed the energy into fire through the spear, which would be Energy Manipulation feat for the spear. And the second scan is about creating ice so strong that not even energy could pass through it.

I don't see why any of those warrant Resistance to Energy Manipulation.

Resistance to Transmutation for anyone that passes their Eternal Godwing Transmutation which includes MC

Scan for the MC resisting?

Immortality type 8 for Yang Qi and negation for his current key

Type 8 is fine, but why negation?

Passive deconstruction

I'd put "possibly" for Deconstruction, since he could've done that through sheer AP instead.

And it's not really passive, he explicitly needed to active an Aura for that.

Not sure if this would be mid-godly or low-godly since a Flood wyrm's body was destroyed and reformed his body with his nascent divinity, since the nascent divinity is just the ego.

That would be Low-Godly, since he regenerated from an energy/ego.

Immeasurable?

Firstly, Possibly for sword attacks. The way of sword focuses on speed. Being able to pierce through time. This guy's sword attacks pierces through the timeline.

This is worded weirdly, but I'm assuming you're proposing Immeasurable speed for the sword attacks? If that's the case I disagree.

"Slicing through time" type of attacks are treated as Durability Negation, and the last scan about the ten sword thing seems to be that the sword "chose" a future out of multiple possibilities. I'm not sure how I would classify that probably Precognition.

The Dao Of Heaven seemed like a type 3 concept, the 'objects' that represent it are the hearts of the people and laws of each immortal world. Destroying them both would destroy it. However it is explained that even in the event that it loses all it's 'objects', it would exist. This is later backed up by the fact that the dao of heaven existed in the ancient primordial chaos, making it present before any universe.

There's not enough evidence here for Conceptual Manipulation.

Yin & Yang, the duality present in all aspects of the universe. For instance: Yin is Female / Death/Dark / Cold / soft/the Moon, while Yang is / Hard/Life/Masculine , Light and the Sun. The comparisons are endless. Legendaries are stated to be able to bend Yin-Yang to their will.

Transduality here seems fine, but the page is going through revisions so I'm not sure how that's gonna turn out.



Everything else seems fine.

And I should mention, you would have to add References to the profile as well, as they are mandatory now.

 

[Zaratthustra]

References aren't mandatory, they are encouraged to be used but not mandatory from what I remember of the last thread about them.

" They should be used whenever and wherever possible to increase the reliability of the information presented in the pages and to improve the overall quality of this wiki. " - from the page.

If there are scans/blogs + explanations then it's good enough.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I'm pretty sure it was decided for them to be mandatory for things that are easily referenced. Like comics, books, tv series, etc. As it is implied in the quote you showed.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Yes, if the scans/blogs aren't enough or if they are easily referenced but here it's a novel whose sheer size alone eclipses the entire harry potter book series by three times - it has 1600 chapters (this is over 3 million words usually for these type of novels). Usually, the art/techniques evolve or show more things when the characters progress, or the same one can show multiple uses it will make the entire page look confusing to see the same thing appear in reference 4-5 times not only one thing but for lots of them.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I mean, the size doesn't really matter. It's easily referenced because it's split in chapters and easily dividable. You had to take these scans in the first place, so you would already know where they are anyway.

And having scans is never an excuse to not put references you should always put both if they are possible.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

The first scan didn't really show anything about Resistance to Energy Manipulation, it seems to have transformed the energy into fire through the spear, which would be Energy Manipulation feat for the spear. And the second scan is about creating ice so strong that not even energy could pass through it.

I don't see why any of those warrant Resistance to Energy Manipulation.

It isn't meant to show resistance. Also, the true energy (just energy) was ignited. It was the spear's energy, which is the MCs. The second scan says: "It was as hard as steel, and pulsed with such frigid energy that it could freeze virtually all other types of true energy."

Scan for the MC resisting?

Well, they need to resist it to pass the tribulation but here's some scans. He Went through it to kill a demon and he let it hit him to temper his physical body.

Type 8 is fine, but why negation?

Because at that point in the story (Chapter 753 of 1600) anyone above him could disregard his reliance on hells to exist and kill him. He constantly avoids being killed and nearly dies a ton of times, but here's him assessing a higher cultivator and here's him nearly being wiped out of existence

Since you're here, maybe you can evaluate this second layer of immortality type 8. MC reveals that he has an Eternal One's constitution. It is explained that an Eternal One is Yang and that it uses Yang aspect of Yin & Yang to exist forever.

I'd put "possibly" for Deconstruction, since he could've done that through sheer AP instead.

And it's not really passive, he explicitly needed to active an Aura for that.

It isn't AP since it's devilish aura. The only reason it isn't activated all the time (at that time in the story) is because he would be hunted for practising devil arts. In fact, when he goes to war with the rest of the world, their main rallying point to oppose him was because of false propaganda that he had been possessed by a demon LMAO.

This is worded weirdly, but I'm assuming you're proposing Immeasurable speed for the sword attacks? If that's the case I disagree.

"Slicing through time" type of attacks are treated as Durability Negation, and the last scan about the ten sword thing seems to be that the sword "chose" a future out of multiple possibilities. I'm not sure how I would classify that probably Precognition.

It is travelling through time using a technique that focuses on speed. Which would be immeasurable , since, well, travelling to the future through sheer speed is immeasurable. MC performs a similar feat later of piercing through time with his sword.

There's not enough evidence here for Conceptual Manipulation.

I am trying to get it assessed as type 2 there. The manipulation comes in a later CRT.

Transduality here seems fine, but the page is going through revisions so I'm not sure how that's gonna turn out.

Transduality? Do you mean my initial proposal that met a wall and I yeeted for a more comprehensive CRT in the future?

 

[Ogbunabali]

It isn't meant to show resistance. Also, the true energy (just energy) was ignited. It was the spear's energy, which is the MCs. The second scan says: "It was as hard as steel, and pulsed with such frigid energy that it could freeze virtually all other types of true energy."

Then I'm not sure what you're proposing here?

Well, they need to resist it to pass the tribulation but here's some scans. He Went through it to kill a demon and he let it hit him to temper his physical body.

Alright, seems fine.

Because at that point in the story (Chapter 753 of 1600) anyone above him could disregard his reliance on hells to exist and kill him. He constantly avoids being killed and nearly dies a ton of times, but here's him assessing a higher cultivator and here's him nearly being wiped out of existence

I'm not sure I'm following why him getting killed makes him negate immortality. Could you elaborate?

Since you're here, maybe you can evaluate this second layer of immortality type 8. MC reveals that he has an Eternal One's constitution. It is explained that an Eternal One is Yang and that it uses Yang aspect of Yin & Yang to exist forever.

Yeah, this seems fine then.

It isn't AP since it's devilish aura. The only reason it isn't activated all the time (at that time in the story) is because he would be hunted for practising devil arts. In fact, when he goes to war with the rest of the world, their main rallying point to oppose him was because of false propaganda that he had been possessed by a demon LMAO.

I don't know the verse, so you'll have to explain why it being a devil aura matters.

It is travelling through time using a technique that focuses on speed. Which would be immeasurable , since, well, travelling to the future through sheer speed is immeasurable.

That would be true, however I didn't see a scan saying that a sword traveled through time. I'm assuming you're referencing the third scan here, in which it doesn't say the sword travels through time, it just says it chooses a future

Ten sword moves were unleashed. Sword energy swept through the entire stone arena and sword light shone in epic fashion, making it seem like an ancient god was striding forward with sword in hand, unleashing the most devastating sword technique possible, seeking to fabricate its own ideal future. The future could be considered a very profound and enigmatic thing, filled with endless possibilities. Even the tiniest factors could change it, but somehow this sword technique seemed to slash through the clouds and fog to create a solid path leading to it.

I am trying to get it assessed as type 2 there. The manipulation comes in a later CRT.

I don't think there's enough evidence for that, I think qualifying as Law Manipulation may be fine. But this is too little evidence for Conceptual.

Transduality? Do you mean my initial proposal that met a wall and I yeeted for a more comprehensive CRT in the future?

I'm not sure what this means.

 

[Zaratthustra]

I mean, the size doesn't really matter. It's easily referenced because it's split in chapters and easily dividable. You had to take these scans in the first place, so you would already know where they are anyway.

And having scans is never an excuse to not put references you should always put both if they are possible.

Size matters sometimes cause just for example one key of a profile I made, I had over 200 scans and the profile has 9 keys. Some powers extend over an entire chapter or several. It's not as simple as X chapter has fire manip, but x,y, z, a, I, p chapter has this type of fire manip, that type of fire manip, xy type of fire manip or xyz chapters have shown its use like this while also xap have shown it another way. Or P, I, O chapter that have several tens or more chapter differences between them explain one power as not revealed entirely the first, the second, or the third time.

Scans and blogs works better for them which is why was agreed to not make references mandatory. For some verses, references work better, for some scans, for some blogs + plus scan or references. Its situation from situation depending on how it works better for them.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Size matters sometimes cause just for example one key of a profile I made, I had over 200 scans and the profile has 9 keys. Some powers extend over an entire chapter or several. It's not as simple as X chapter has fire manip, but x,y, z, a, I, p chapter has this type of fire manip, that type of fire manip, xy type of fire manip or xyz chapters have shown its use like this while also xap have shown it another way. Or P, I, O chapter that have several tens or more chapter differences between them explain one power as not revealed entirely the first, the second, or the third time.

I mean, so what?

Scans and blogs works better for them which is why was agreed to not make references mandatory. For some verses, references work better, for some scans, for some blogs + plus scan or references. Its situation from situation depending on how it works better for them.

As I said, I am confident it was decided that it is mandatory. If you are able to reference it you should.

This is getting extremely derailing so we should end this topic on this thread. Feel free to message me on my wall or dm me if you wish to continue.