Saber Alter vs Shia Haulia

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Shia is as she was during the war with ehito.
Assume shia has used body strengthening to match alter at mountain level. She has used body strengthening before to boost herself from High 7-C to 6-C, so this is reasonable. She isn't allowed to use body strengthening x however, as that would make her 6-C.

Both in character, who wins?

Saber Alter:

Shia Haulia: 2

Inconclusive:

 

[Schnee_One]

Don't see Shia winning here.

Avalon is really difficult for her to bypass, Saber's far more skilled then her, this Saber is far from hesitant about Excaliblast spamming, and I don't see any way for her to counter that.

Instincts border on downright Pre-Cog as well.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Don't see avalon on here profile, what does it do?

Also while i said body strengtening x is restricted, shia is still alowed to boost herself to large mountain level if necessary.

Also shia's instincts are insane as well being able to detect danger, and sense things, and then on top of that she has 3 different forms of precog:

Premonition: Shia's ability which allows her to be able to predict the future based on her actions if she uses it actively; however, it can activate automatically as well; it predicts any large danger that would bring death to Shia either directly or indirectly. This ability only works once a day.


Divine Revelation: An ability which allows her to see up to 2 seconds into the future. Though it is a downgraded version of her Premonition, it can be used with little magic power, so she could conveniently use it in rapid succession.


Hypothesis Sight: The derivation of her native magic Premonition, using Hypothesis Sight, Shia is able to know the result of a question she asks such as what would happen if she attack someone, and also know exactly where that person will strike.

 

[Schnee_One]

Basically, unless you rip out her heart or chop off her head, she's going to survive.

That's great and all, but again, how is she dodging Excaliblast? It's literally a massive wall of Light that is charging at you that's the size of a bridge, and she can grab her opponents using shadows if she has any trouble lineing it up. And she can fire it point blank.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Shia has the same level of regen too, so not a big advantage.

Never really said anything about her dodging excaliblast, just that shia starts at mountain level and is allowed to boost herself with her body strengthening but not to island level as that would be a stomp.

Also she could use half transition to turn intangible to counter excaliblast, albeit she can only do it once, might give her enough time to boost herself above saber's level though.

Shia will keep boasting herself until she is is above saber, this is literally what she did in her fight, at first she was far outclassed against the silver apostles but kept up due to precog and instincts, then she kept boosting herself till she one shotted them.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yes she does, but she doesn't have a way to bypass it in a single shot, unlike Saber.

Intangibility is worthless as literally every servant is an intangible being.

How long does it take though? A few minutes? Because ultimately, she's not going to have the time to boost herself up before she gets excaliblasted.

It also doesn't help that mystery will make most of her attacks so far less damage, si even if buffed I doubt it will do much unless I'm missing something.

 

[LordGinSama]

The Regenerationn from Avalon isn't all that impressive. She'll die from decapitation.

As for the Intangibility part Servant are only intangible to normal weapons. So it makes sense that other servants can harm each other but that doesn't mean they can harm all types of Intangibility.


It seems like Shia has a versatility advantage and the hax advantage. I might be going for her but how does her resurrection work?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Fail to see how saber one shots though, shia has precog that allows her to see 2 seconds in the future, before saber uses it, she would know and can boost herself to tank it.

Also about her intangibility:

"Half Transition: Space magic which shifts one's body halfway to a different space, as a result all interference from the origin space won't reach her body."

Her body literally is in another space, so like obito from naruto, well not quite, her body isn't in another space, it's in between so not in either, can servants hit such ppl?

Shia literally went from High 7-C to 6-C with 10 boost, which is insane, this match is assuming she used like body strengthing 7 or something like that and is at mountain level, now she can continue to boost herself on top of that, it really isn't going to take that long for her to be stronger.

What does the mystery do?

 

[Promestein]

Saber Alter doesn't have Avalon, her Regenerationn is unrelated to that.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Knight This version of shia doesn't have resurrection, that's her after stories version which has a smartphone which monitors her status and if any abnormality is detected, opens a portal and fires a laser from hajime's bel agatha which is in space. The laser it fires can revive the dead, and heal all status abnormalities as it literally reverses time to put her back to a healthy state.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Literally what Prom said on Avalon. That's a thing she uses in her normal form and even then, i'm pretty sure it has to be specified that she has it else you just have normal Saber.

Alt. Saber, of course as Prom noted, doesn;t have it.

 

[Schnee_One]

Saber Alter doesn't have Avalon, her Regenerationn is unrelated to that.

Si

@Cel How so? I thought you said she couldn't boost herself to 6C? Even if it's High 7A, she's tanking a 20 second long beam that Saber has zero issue spamming immediately after.

That said, if she can boost herself to High 7A and it doesn't take time, Then I'll vote for her as she can go to High 7A and one shot Sabers 7A Durability

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Gargoyle Even in large mountain level, there is a gap, what is it like 4x? What i am saying is shia can't use body strengthening level x which is what makes her island level, well into island level actually, cause it makes superior to hajime who is comparable to ehito who created the Holy Precincts, which has numerous pocket realms, including a space with a city, a space where the ground and sky are reversed, a space where countless white blocks are floating, a space where there are only mountains as tall as God Mountain, which is 8 km tall, a space resembling a giant library where countless bookshelves were cluttered together, a space with an ocean which also had an island that was at least 5 km wide, and a space with floating islands ranging from a dozen meters to a few kilometers wide along with a gigantic island that was 10 km wide.

Shia went through high 7-C to well into 6-C with 10 boosts, this match assumes shia starts somewhere around like boost number 7 or something like that, whatever boost makes her mountain level, as it's not clear which one does only that she starts at large town level and ends up stronger than hajime in physical stats. The series did give numbers where shia's base stats are like 1000 without any boosts and she ended up at 60,000 with body strengthening x, but i wouldn't pay too much attention to that.

 

[Schnee_One]

4x what?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You have to be 4.3x above a baseline large mountain level character to be island level, was just saying not all large mountain level characters are equal, shia could feasibly get stronger than alter, and not be island level.

 

[Promestein]

Excalibur is high-end Large Mountain level.

 

[Schnee_One]

I thought it was Baseline High 7A.

 

[AguilaR101]

Saber Alter doesn't have Avalon.

 

[Schnee_One]

As already said twice

 

[AguilaR101]

Redundancy never killed anyone :^)

Also what's the actual consensus on Excalibur's AP? I know the 90% of its light being offset is taken in consideration as the calced energy only yields ~350 MT, but I'm not sure if it's assumed a full excaliblast is ~3.5 GT because of that.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Saber Alter still has Regenerationn through

 

[Promestein]

Excalibur > Arjuna's Gandiva, which is 10x stronger than baseline Mountain level (eg nearly if not actually at Large Mountain level).

 

[Muhammedmco]

I really think that Excaliblast is as the same as Shia's strengthening.

I mean, Excaliblast can be spammed, and Shia's strengthening is the same. I red a part of the web novel and stopped in volume 7 i think, and Shia's clairovyance can get in rare times, such as when she saw when Aiko was about to be hit when she was held captive by Shinji.

Honestly i think Saber Alter should take this. She tanked attacks far worse than Shia, where Shia required Hajime to make her drink from the Holy Water to heal her from the water beam that hit her in the heart, something her regen couldn't recover. While Saber Alter herself survived her heart and lungs getting crushed.

I vote for Saber Alter via Excalibur Morgan and better healing factor (Yeah, i know both of them are Low-Mid, but Saber Alter's regen is better than Shia's)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Muhammedmco Shia has 3 different precogs, one which activates once a day when she is in danger, another which she spams which allows her to see 2 seconds in the future and another which allow her to see the results of a question she ask, like what if i attack a person this way?

Also you need to finish the web novel before you can say saber has tanked worse, or that shia is somehow some sort of glass canon, shia can tank attacks comparable to what she can dish out, also in the war with ehito she kept healing from fatal injuries, so no saber doesn't have a better regen.

Also the difference between excaliblast and body strengthing is, from my knowledge excaliblast doesn't make saber stronger every time it's used, shia literally went from large town level to at least island level by using body strengthening 10 times, and this match is assuming she is already like 7 times into it. Plus as i said before there is still her ability which makes her intangible, which shifts her body in between two space thereby negating interference from outside, still haven't seen proof saber could affect her in that state.

Also if you want to make the durability argument, shia has something call steel clothes or something like that, it allowed her to tank attacks from the silver apostles who were stronger than her, and really should be like large mountain level, since they were like one boost away from shia being at least island level, it's after shia got equal in stats with them, and then boosted a final time did she become at least island level. Plus those silver apostles from what i can remember can punch significant holes in islands or at least scale to people who can do that.

 

[Muhammedmco]

But won't that count as a stomp?

I mean Island>>>>>>>>>>>>>Large Mountain.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

No cause as i already specifically shia isn't allowed to use body strengthening x, which is what would make her island level, she can use every one up to before that though.

This match assumes shia is at mountain level, which she would be if she used body strengthening VII or something like that, but it's not clear which one exactly would make her that level, only that she starts at large town level in base, and with body strengthening x ends up at at least island level.

As for the silver apostles, they should scale to uranos who did this:

"The world was dyed by white radiance, by the breath of the Uranos――by aurora.

Even the word tremendous couldn't represent a fragment of that attack's might. The absurd torrent of light caused the space itself to creak, just its after-wave gouged out the ground of the floating island.

And then, at the place that got hit directly…the aurora pierced until far below――it broke through the bottom of the floating island and pierced until the far beyond.

Yes, the aurora pierced through the ground of the floating island that had the diameter of ten-odd kilometers until it came out on the other side. The sea of clouds spreading under the island had a hole opened there like the eye of a typhoon that dispersed in a radial shape.

A terrifying might. It was just like the light of divine punishment. Everything that stood on its way would be completely destroyed without any discrimination by that breath of devastation."

I have a feeling this will get ridiculous results when it's adapted in an anime or manga. Not much to say about it now though. There was also another feat of shia with body strengthening VII i think causing an earthquake that shook an island:

"Using her physical strength which had been strengthened beyond the realm of humans at full throttle, she swung down the hammer, preparing to cause an impact nothing short of comparable to that of an asteroid on a star.

When Zwei was finally able to raise his body from the storm of the explosive slug bullets, her whole vision was already covered with a wall cold metal.

"―― !"

At once, she entered defense mode using her white-silver feathers to cover her body in a knit. But, on the surface of the strike, there was obviously a sealing stone, and the moment of impact, it unknitted the feather, which then completely vanished under the weight that defied common sense.

Then, a severe earthquake occurred.

The artificial island that had caused the unnatural earthquake rumbled. The ground collapsed where the head of the hammer had crashed like a grave-marker. And, as if to make doubly sure of the deed, the hammer started rotating.

At that time, on the surface of the hammer that was touching Zweit, countless sharp edges grew out, and grinding sounds resounded as holes were being made into her. As a matter of fact, a drill gimmick was attached to the head of this hammer. In order to pulverize into million pieces the enemy that had been crushed by it.

Moreover, sealing stones had also been put on the sharp edges to deny enemy resistance. Even if Zweit used her white-silver feathers to protect her body, it would be useless. Truly, men were fond of drills."

The sealing stones are materials in which mana is hard to circulate in, so it literally can seal stuff due to it taking a crap ton of mana to get out of the material, but yea even the apostles using their disintegration ability which turns stuff into dust and particles, is useless against guarding against this attack. And it killed someone stronger than her, so i think this ignores durability to an extent.

 

[Rocker1189]

Yeah voting Shia for reason stated by Celestial, she can predict Excalibur by literslly seeing it in the future and with stat boosts she is able to bring up her AP and Durability. She can close the distance and dodge attacks with Half Transition before landing a killing blow

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

1 for shia.

 

[Schnee_One]

I voted Shia tho

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

2 for shia