Ryu Vs Mori

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Both are 8-C, Satsui No Hado is restricted 8-B key mori is restricted

The National Competition Arc Mori is Used and SF II-IV Ryu

Speed is Equalized

Monkey: 4(SirOvens,SamanPatou,rawXDglomp,Jamesthetaker,Planck69,GlaceonGamez471)

Ryu:

Inconclusive:

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

Because of this new rule, this match might become a stomp.

This is because the Satsui no Hado is rather uncontrollable, and would most likely trigger if Ryu is facing an opponent who actively tries to kill him.
He has some control over it, as also shown in the early moments of SFV, but only if he is engaging friendly or sparring matches.

Ditching the "characters are willing to kill each other" rule featured in SBA (something I'm often in favor of doing), might be a solution, but how does Mori behaves in combat?
Is he a good-hearted person? Would he use potentially lethal techniques like his death and blood hax?
Because Ryu might still trigger the Satsui is Mori still tries to murder him or cause severe and lethal wounds.

Also, I'm not sure if Ryu would be able to unlock his 8-B power.
He used it only once after having a philosophical chat with Seth, and such moment of realization never happened again, so it's questionable whether or not his PoN would come out in a fight, under normal circumstances.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Because of this new rule, this match might become a stomp.

This is because the Satsui no Hado is rather uncontrollable, and would most likely trigger if Ryu is facing an opponent who actively tries to kill him.
He has some control over it, as also shown in the early moments of SFV, but only if he is engaging friendly or sparring matches.

Ditching the "characters are willing to kill each other" rule featured in SBA (something I'm often in favor of doing), might be a solution, but how does Mori behaves in combat?
Is he a good-hearted person? Would he use potentially lethal techniques like his death and blood hax?
Because Ryu might still trigger the Satsui is Mori still tries to murder him or cause severe and lethal wounds.

Also, I'm not sure if Ryu would be able to unlock his 8-B power.
He used it only once after having a philosophical chat with Seth, and such moment of realization never happened again, so it's questionable whether or not his PoN would come out in a fight, under normal circumstances.

I don't get the new rule thing

Also mori is a good hearted person he's not the type that would kill you for no reason or to win a tournament

 

[SamanPatou]

Wait, I forgot to link the thread where it is explained.
Basically the new rule says that transformations, power ups and stuff that can't be actively and willingly restricted by a character can't be restricted in vs matches too.


Still, if Mori fights fairly, then there shouldn't be problems, but what about the Bongchim Nah Style Acupuncture blood hax and the Instant Death technique? Are they in character? Because they seem pretty violent attacks, especially the first, which can cause serious damage, and if Ryu gets some body part exploded and doesn't die, I can see him going nuts and activating the Satsui.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Wait, I forgot to link the thread where it is explained.
Basically the new rule says that transformations, power ups and stuff that can't be actively and willingly restricted by a character can't be restricted in vs matches too.


Still, if Mori fights fairly, then there shouldn't be problems, but what about the Bongchim Nah Style Acupuncture blood hax and the Instant Death technique? Are they in character? Because they seem pretty violent attacks, especially the first, which can cause serious damage, and if Ryu gets some body part exploded and doesn't die, I can see him going nuts and activating the Satsui.

Nope he doesn't use this in character only when forced too

 

[SamanPatou]

It should be fine then.
Also, I suggest to change the title to point out that Mori Jin is involved, in order to gain more attention.

Could I have a brief description of Mori's skill and experience in this key?
His profile has feats and techniques, but they aren't split to mark which ones belong to this key. (neither Ryu's, I will someday fix this and expand the file).
I'd also like more details on the speed of his regeneration and his enhanced senses.

How relevant would these weaknesses in a fight?
Reckless and somewhat lacking in common sense.
It is also bad at close quarters

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

It should be fine then.
Also, I suggest to change the title to point out that Mori Jin is involved, in order to gain more attention.

Could I have a brief description of Mori's skill and experience in this key?
His profile has feats and techniques, but they aren't split to mark which ones belong to this key. (neither Ryu's, I will someday fix this and expand the file).
I'd also like more details on the speed of his regeneration and his enhanced senses.

How relevant would these weaknesses in a fight?
Reckless and somewhat lacking in common sense.
It is also bad at close quarters

The CQC thing has weakness has been solved the reckless thing it's related in the tournament( when some dude try to play dirty or evil that beat the shit out of the weak.) and the only technique he hasn't copied yet in this key on the notable feats and techniques is the northern IF

 

[SamanPatou]

I'm going to resurrect this.

First, I suggest to restrict Mori's 8-B, because Ryu is almost surely not going to be able to amp himself to 8-B, since it was a highly situational power up that never occurred again and he totally can't control.

Also, from what Anos said, Mori is a fair fighter, and assuming this isn't a death match, the Bongchim Nah Style Acupuncture and Instant Death Technique aren't going to be used.
In the same way, as long as Mori doesn't pull off something lethal or fights cruelly, Ryu isn't going to let the Satsui come out.

In AP, Ryu is somewhat twice as strong than Mori, since both upscale to an unknown degree to 1.3 tons and 0.6 tons respectively.

Regarding P&A, Mori seems to have an advantage. First, it would be nice to know the details of Mori's enhanced senses, regen (notably its speed), wind manip, stats amp and RPL.
A
Mori's stamina and resistance to pain are further advantages, as he seemingly can keep going on while badly beaten, and his Instinctive Reaction, dura neg, pain manip and Paralysis also seem very good tools.

On the other hand Ryu is less haxed, but his Damage Boost would back up the AP advantage, his Chi is still super hot even when he doesn't try to incinerate the opponent (tho I don't know how to compare it to the fire Mori has extinguished), his Hanagashi and Enhanced Senses would also help.

Both have ranged options, notably in the forms of Hadokens for Ryu and wind techniques for Mori, but I also see some ki-based techniques in the latter's section, tho I can't tell if he can use them in this key, since the profile doesn't list Chi Manip at all.
Notably, I think it's worthy to note that Ryu is more than used to fight people who employ his same fighting style, and with many variations, so Mori's power mimicry may prove not very effective.

How skilled and experienced is Mori in this key? I'm going to list a quick list of Ryu's accomplishments in this key, to allow some sort of comparison.

• Has trained since he was a child (meaning over than a decade) under Gouken.
• Reached the final of the first world tournament, participated the second (the results are totally unknown) and scored well in the third, kind of reaching what would be the final opponent (tho several other fighters did it because clone shenanigans regarding the host, Seth).
• His younger self could already be a challenge to Sagat, and overtime he became substantially better, to the point of being equal to Sagat, who also got better in the meantime.
• By this point in time, Ryu spends his whole life training and wandering the world to fight people from all places, to the point that he is already globally famous and is acquaintanced with a variety of high level fighters, excluding those I will name next (an example of this is an unknown karate master to whom he was going to pay visit in the OVA).
• Ha fought countless times with Ken and improved alongside him. A replica of his younger self was troublesome fo Alex to defeat. Is acquaintanced to the majority of the SF cast, and is more than likely that he has fought them in at least some sparring matches, given how people behave in-verse. Defeated a clone of Seth which, albeit weaker, employed the same fighting style. Even though he couldn't defeat them, he's fought the original Seth, M. Bison and Akuma, and the latter praised his skill and potential in more than one occasion.

Ryu's intelligence section already describes how he behaves in a fight (I will expand it in a proper section one day), and from what has been said so far in this thread, Mori's recklessness is still relevant in this key, and this could be a serious disadvantage for him.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

First, it would be nice to know the details of Mori's enhanced senses, regen (notably its speed), wind manip, stats amp and RPL.

Mori's enhanced senses allow him to detect unexpected danger like an attack coming from behind him. It isn't really as notable as his instinctive reactions which allowed him to survive a lethal strike to the heart by kicking his assailant the very instant his fingers touched his chest.

His regen allows him to recover from impalement through the chest but not without fatigue.

His wind manip is caused by his kicks which form strong gusts of wind that can harm his opponents and even block projectiles.

Stat amp is caused by using acupuncture on himself. He is able to raise his speed and AP by 2x at minimum. He can also turn off his sense of pain, allowing him to push through attacks that would have dissuaded him due to danger.

RPL is passive as Mori grows stronger the longer he fights. This isn't a huge deal since he's still usually around the same level as his opponent when he grows stronger, but it does close AP gaps.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

I'm going to resurrect this.

First, I suggest to restrict Mori's 8-B, because Ryu is almost surely not going to be able to amp himself to 8-B, since it was a highly situational power up that never occurred again and he totally can't control.

Also, from what Anos said, Mori is a fair fighter, and assuming this isn't a death match, the Bongchim Nah Style Acupuncture and Instant Death Technique aren't going to be used.
In the same way, as long as Mori doesn't pull off something lethal or fights cruelly, Ryu isn't going to let the Satsui come out.

In AP, Ryu is somewhat twice as strong than Mori, since both upscale to an unknown degree to 1.3 tons and 0.6 tons respectively.

Regarding P&A, Mori seems to have an advantage. First, it would be nice to know the details of Mori's enhanced senses, regen (notably its speed), wind manip, stats amp and RPL.
A
Mori's stamina and resistance to pain are further advantages, as he seemingly can keep going on while badly beaten, and his Instinctive Reaction, dura neg, pain manip and Paralysis also seem very good tools.

On the other hand Ryu is less haxed, but his Damage Boost would back up the AP advantage, his Chi is still super hot even when he doesn't try to incinerate the opponent (tho I don't know how to compare it to the fire Mori has extinguished), his Hanagashi and Enhanced Senses would also help.

Both have ranged options, notably in the forms of Hadokens for Ryu and wind techniques for Mori, but I also see some ki-based techniques in the latter's section, tho I can't tell if he can use them in this key, since the profile doesn't list Chi Manip at all.
Notably, I think it's worthy to note that Ryu is more than used to fight people who employ his same fighting style, and with many variations, so Mori's power mimicry may prove not very effective.

How skilled and experienced is Mori in this key? I'm going to list a quick list of Ryu's accomplishments in this key, to allow some sort of comparison.

• Has trained since he was a child (meaning over than a decade) under Gouken.
• Reached the final of the first world tournament, participated the second (the results are totally unknown) and scored well in the third, kind of reaching what would be the final opponent (tho several other fighters did it because clone shenanigans regarding the host, Seth).
• His younger self could already be a challenge to Sagat, and overtime he became substantially better, to the point of being equal to Sagat, who also got better in the meantime.
• By this point in time, Ryu spends his whole life training and wandering the world to fight people from all places, to the point that he is already globally famous and is acquaintanced with a variety of high level fighters, excluding those I will name next (an example of this is an unknown karate master to whom he was going to pay visit in the OVA).
• Ha fought countless times with Ken and improved alongside him. A replica of his younger self was troublesome fo Alex to defeat. Is acquaintanced to the majority of the SF cast, and is more than likely that he has fought them in at least some sparring matches, given how people behave in-verse. Defeated a clone of Seth which, albeit weaker, employed the same fighting style. Even though he couldn't defeat them, he's fought the original Seth, M. Bison and Akuma, and the latter praised his skill and potential in more than one occasion.

Ryu's intelligence section already describes how he behaves in a fight (I will expand it in a proper section one day), and from what has been said so far in this thread, Mori's recklessness is still relevant in this key, and this could be a serious disadvantage for him.

I'm just gonna list mori's skill and experience in this key since ovens already explained the others

• Has been trained by Jin Taejin who easily defeated the six, and mori was literally a baby.
• Joined GOH and won it and joined national competition and it's obvious that he won.
• Managed to react a little to Bongchim Nah's instant death technique that it wasn't able to fully hit him, who's one of a member of the six.
• After winning the first competition he was trained by bongchim nah and taught him uiyong bongchim na technique and easily learned it.
• He was capable of fighting Ilpyo who has precog, even when his head is spinning and his vision was blurry and pushed ilpyo to use his borrowed power and overcame the weakness of the renewal taekwondo in that state.
• Managed to knocked down Commissioner Q who has far more experience at that time and manage to broke Commissioner R's arm when he kicked it. Which is same as Q.
• Copied every technique in the match he has been by seeing it at an glance and was capable of creating his own technique in middle of the fight.
• Defeated Daewi who is fairly skilled and defeated Seungcheol Baek. and daewi able to damage mori in a fight.
• Easily Defeated Manseok Gang who's been able to damage mori like this just by casually throwing him at a wall.
• All of the Commissioners acknowledge how skilled mori is by watching his fight, same as the six who's stronger than all of the commisioner.

That's probably all i can list that i remembered

 

[SamanPatou]

It isn't really as notable as his instinctive reactions which allowed him to survive a lethal strike to the heart by kicking his assailant the very instant his fingers touched his chest.

Is this a one-off thing that works on particularly dangerous attacks or does it allow him to Ultra Instinct every attack?

His regen allows him to recover from impalement through the chest but not without fatigue.

How fast is it?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Is this a one-off thing that works on particularly dangerous attacks or does it allow him to Ultra Instinct every attack?

For the most part he can attack people the instant he is hit. Like when he injured Manseok's ankle with his elbow the moment he was kicked into a wall, or when he was beaten to a pulp by Mihu, only for the latter to realize he was subtly attacked and hurt whilst attacking Mori.

How fast is it?

Well he was impaled and about 5 to 10 min later he was perfectly fine.

 

[SamanPatou]

Last question (hopefully) how much of a hinderance was beign impaled? Like, he had to recover, could act just fine etc...

 

[SamanPatou]

All in all, from what I've seen so far, I'd say that Ryu's got the edge experience, training and focus, while Mori's got the hax and still enough skill to keep up (I want to make it clear that I'm not downplaying him, but some of the things mentioned by Lugh are either AP or achievements against people who weren't martial artists.

That said, I think I'd either vote inconclusive or Mori.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

All the people who mori defeated and i have mentioned is a martial artist

Edit: Commissioner Q isn't but R is, and all of them has a decent martial arts skill

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump

 

[rawXDglomp]

Voting for Mori. I don't remember when exactly I dropped his series (during one of its tournaments, but it had several of those) but he's not violent and cruel enough to trigger Ryu's evil mode. And this is 2-4 Ryu. Not 5. Not the one that lost one (1) fight one (1) time and immediately had to be saved from turning evil, then spent near the entire game squatting under a tree and seething about it. 2-4 Ryu, even when losing, don't go evil far more than they do. He's not a manchild until 5.

Arguing skill by listing who beat the most jobber martial artists in their verse doesn't matter. Different universes with different standards for skill entirely. Its like saying, oh shit, this ant beat all 99 other ants in his colony, and they were all martial artists, but Ryu only beat 1 other human, the ant is > Ryu in skill.

The important thing is Mori has speed amps (why is it okay to speed equalize in a fight where only 1 side has speed amps? They just win by default. It shoudn't be allowed), multiplicative ap buffs, is blatantly a more talented martial artist to begin with (I dropped his series because he's a mary sue lol), and even better ranged options than Ryu (fairly sure he already had his double wind kicks at this point, while Ryu is throwing a single slow fireball).

 

[SamanPatou]

Not 5. Not the one that lost one (1) fight one (1) time and immediately had to be saved from turning evil, then spent near the entire game squatting under a tree and seething about it. 2-4 Ryu, even when losing, don't go evil far more than they do. He's not a manchild until 5.

This is half untrue, Necalli was straight up threatening to kill and devour him and Dhalsim, it made sense for him to awaken the Satsui, and let's not forget he awakened it even when C. Viper stomped Cammy in the "Ties that Bind"

Arguing skill by listing who beat the most jobber martial artists in their verse doesn't matter. Different universes with different standards for skill entirely. Its like saying, oh shit, this ant beat all 99 other ants in his colony, and they were all martial artists, but Ryu only beat 1 other human, the ant is > Ryu in skill.

Ryu has his own share of bouts against skilled people who are as strong as him, but nonetheless he fights for the thrill of testing himself against worthy opponents, and even when he fights people like him he never stomps them into the ground (Laura, Sakura, Rashid...), meaning that he is actually testing his skill against theirs.

The important thing is Mori has speed amps (why is it okay to speed equalize in a fight where only 1 side has speed amps? They just win by default. It shoudn't be allowed),

This is similar to AP amps, we allow them until the match becomes a stomp, even though we don't have a set multiplier that sets when a fight becomes a speedblitz.

while Ryu is throwing a single slow fireball).

This is just wrong, Ryu's hadoken is slow only for gameplay balancing, just like all other projectiles in the game.
There are multiple instances in-canon where we see Ryu's projectiles traveling fast and being fired in quick succession.

 

[SamanPatou]

Anyway, count me in favor of Mori too.

 

[rawXDglomp]

So what we at now? 3 for mori?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah my vote is for Mori.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Counted

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Monkey King FRA.

 

[rawXDglomp]

I think Mori wins

 

[SamanPatou]

3 more votes and grace starts.

 

[speedster352]

I vote for mori fra

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Mori FRA

 

[Planck69]

Mori FRA

 

[SamanPatou]

Grace

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Yeah my vote is for Mori.

Since Grace has ended can you add this to mori's profile? and close the thread?

 

[SamanPatou]

Could you add the fact that whatever makes Mori 8-B is restricted?
This because it is extremely unlikely for Ryu to tap into his 8-B power, thus the match would be a stomp in Mori's favor.