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They appear to work for me.
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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
- Thread starter Antvasima
- Start date
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
Mochy said I should be stoned not monke
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
- 15,275
I get an error page for each link you sent.
But it's fine.
I can't post evidence of you being something that you actively denied for a while?
Also, you dropped a lot of shit that could make us look really bad out of context. Even accused one of us of wanting to kill you.
But I can't drop that ss? Weird. But what ever.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
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Any discussion of this sort is destined to be damned by one agenda or another, one feels. Having it publicly allows extremely charged comments from unrelated and unqualified parties to be let loose into the situation, sensationalizing it perhaps to one direction it would not have otherwise taken. Having it privately invites conspiracy and speculation from other people, as I'm sure you're aware. What I'm saying is that I don't know if it is better to tackle this publicly or privately- both have their negatives and people to ply them.
Regarding the contents of the report: I have become convinced that everyone in that Discord server has done and is doing generally deplorable shit, some of which has an extremely strong argument going for it for being against our rules off-site, such as the aforementioned suicide encouragement, made worse by salting that particular wound. I would consider this to be the main offense of any of the mean messages sent: to offer the slightest ounce of justification, Monke's use of this language appears to be more joking than Raven's, and sent it to an apparent friend- and I would heartily defend the notion that mean words can be used in a joking context, in spite of what others appear to believe. It is not a good-spirited joke, but it can be intended as a joke, and the intent is more significant in situations like these. I know many kind-spirited individuals on this very forum who have been significant boons to my own mental health who use that sort of humor- I don't ask that people laugh along, I just ask them to not be so extreme about it. My judgement here would be that Raven posted the worst of the stuff, with Monke being an arguable follow-up (in this field of the evidence).
Anyways, to continue: I would tackle harassment as the second biggest issue at hand here, and this one is of a more complicated nature. Raven was in servers with these people where they chose to verbally abuse her frequently- but she also has a significant amount of evidence of verbally abusing others. With the amount of evidence, I find it difficult to say who might be harassing who, as it seems less a story of individual victimhood and more a story of a two-sided conflict, where Raven is outnumbered in terms of people-who-can-say-horrible-shit-to-the-other-side. I don't think any of them ought to be banned for their actions in this department as all of them are active aggressors who went from joking and kicking the shit to being openly hostile for no good reason.
Regarding the one everyone seems to consider more heinous, I would consider misgendering a known cisgender woman on the internet an offense but not a great one, little more severe than any other drastic insults used (of which there were many here). The offenses here I believe come closer to joking than others, as others have already pointed out that it's a common trope on the Internet for women to not "be real". Posts from users in the same screenshots display a knowledge that Raven is a woman- this really doesn't appear to have been an active witch hunt against her for being suspected to be transgender or something, nor is the other most-cited example here (Dread) a transgender user, either. On-site actions are more notable because our rules to handle on-site insults are and should be more severe, I would encourage action taken against Arcker for the on-site post (and not Metalballrun, who was not even speaking to or about Raven at the time).
My opinion is that Raven's transgressions are more severe than the people attacking her, although I would agree that all of them who contributed significantly should be warned and perhaps given short bans if only for dogpiling her relentlessly when it could have been handled much, much, much more agreeably- this, I could see being argued as harassment and thus worthy of action of some nature. Raven's knowledge of a user's recent mental health collapse and use of it as a verbal weapon (even in as slight a manner as she did) would, to me, be the single greatest offense against our rules in this debacle, and I would suggest a ban for her as well. Arcker should obviously receive action of some kind, and given the four similar offenses on the warning tracker against him (and probably more that didn't make it so far), I think a ban is in order there, too.
In summary, I somehow find myself believing that MonkeMan is the lesser evil in this situation, which one would hope is taken sincerely given my past grievances with him. So:
As an afterthought, I wanted to acknowledge this, because I am a fool who enjoys engaging with things he likes. The quote is commonly attributed to Terry Pratchett, an author whose exploration of satire and humanitarianism dig deep. I would say that the works of Terry Pratchett are a defining component of my moral outlook, as I read little other than his novels for about seven years. I read them repeatedly, at any given opportunity. What I'm trying to say is that I firmly believe in the written and spoken words of Terry Pratchett, so much that I sobbed for a full day (in High School, no less) when I learned he died.
The thing about this quote is that it is a double edged sword. Nobody in that Discord is in power- I suppose you might argue a server owner, depending on dynamic, but the context suggests to me that this is a casual setting with rarely enforced rules outside of whims. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Raven being misgendered in there is bullying equal to Raven casually using Monke's talked about suicidal tendencies to disregard him, they're both mean-spirited and bitter things, but one has, from what I can tell, a significantly more drastic effect.
I try to understand your position. I say try because I have not been in your shoes and cannot be in your shoes, so I look to other positions that I believe are similar, situations I can relate to. There are nuances separating them, of course, but they are approximate: the modern stigmatization of autism as some demon-power invented by scientists to take control of children and the weak-willed is as close a thing as I can get. So, I ask myself: if these were replaced with someone hounding a user for their autism, would I feel differently? The answer is no. I would still consider it a disgusting course of action, but not equal to trivialization of suicide.
You are free to disagree, of course. I encourage individual thought. I am simply trying to explain my position, which I hope you'll understand given the great push-back and conspiracy there has always been regarding it.
Regarding the contents of the report: I have become convinced that everyone in that Discord server has done and is doing generally deplorable shit, some of which has an extremely strong argument going for it for being against our rules off-site, such as the aforementioned suicide encouragement, made worse by salting that particular wound. I would consider this to be the main offense of any of the mean messages sent: to offer the slightest ounce of justification, Monke's use of this language appears to be more joking than Raven's, and sent it to an apparent friend- and I would heartily defend the notion that mean words can be used in a joking context, in spite of what others appear to believe. It is not a good-spirited joke, but it can be intended as a joke, and the intent is more significant in situations like these. I know many kind-spirited individuals on this very forum who have been significant boons to my own mental health who use that sort of humor- I don't ask that people laugh along, I just ask them to not be so extreme about it. My judgement here would be that Raven posted the worst of the stuff, with Monke being an arguable follow-up (in this field of the evidence).
Anyways, to continue: I would tackle harassment as the second biggest issue at hand here, and this one is of a more complicated nature. Raven was in servers with these people where they chose to verbally abuse her frequently- but she also has a significant amount of evidence of verbally abusing others. With the amount of evidence, I find it difficult to say who might be harassing who, as it seems less a story of individual victimhood and more a story of a two-sided conflict, where Raven is outnumbered in terms of people-who-can-say-horrible-shit-to-the-other-side. I don't think any of them ought to be banned for their actions in this department as all of them are active aggressors who went from joking and kicking the shit to being openly hostile for no good reason.
Regarding the one everyone seems to consider more heinous, I would consider misgendering a known cisgender woman on the internet an offense but not a great one, little more severe than any other drastic insults used (of which there were many here). The offenses here I believe come closer to joking than others, as others have already pointed out that it's a common trope on the Internet for women to not "be real". Posts from users in the same screenshots display a knowledge that Raven is a woman- this really doesn't appear to have been an active witch hunt against her for being suspected to be transgender or something, nor is the other most-cited example here (Dread) a transgender user, either. On-site actions are more notable because our rules to handle on-site insults are and should be more severe, I would encourage action taken against Arcker for the on-site post (and not Metalballrun, who was not even speaking to or about Raven at the time).
My opinion is that Raven's transgressions are more severe than the people attacking her, although I would agree that all of them who contributed significantly should be warned and perhaps given short bans if only for dogpiling her relentlessly when it could have been handled much, much, much more agreeably- this, I could see being argued as harassment and thus worthy of action of some nature. Raven's knowledge of a user's recent mental health collapse and use of it as a verbal weapon (even in as slight a manner as she did) would, to me, be the single greatest offense against our rules in this debacle, and I would suggest a ban for her as well. Arcker should obviously receive action of some kind, and given the four similar offenses on the warning tracker against him (and probably more that didn't make it so far), I think a ban is in order there, too.
In summary, I somehow find myself believing that MonkeMan is the lesser evil in this situation, which one would hope is taken sincerely given my past grievances with him. So:
- Ban for Raven, discussion should be had here on length.
- Depending on the user, short bans or strong warnings against the primary antagonists of Raven's initial report- Monke is the main issue here, and I would say that his persistent attacking of Raven digs well enough into unacceptable territory to warrant a ban.
- Short ban for Arcker for on-site rudeness.
As an afterthought, I wanted to acknowledge this, because I am a fool who enjoys engaging with things he likes. The quote is commonly attributed to Terry Pratchett, an author whose exploration of satire and humanitarianism dig deep. I would say that the works of Terry Pratchett are a defining component of my moral outlook, as I read little other than his novels for about seven years. I read them repeatedly, at any given opportunity. What I'm trying to say is that I firmly believe in the written and spoken words of Terry Pratchett, so much that I sobbed for a full day (in High School, no less) when I learned he died.
The thing about this quote is that it is a double edged sword. Nobody in that Discord is in power- I suppose you might argue a server owner, depending on dynamic, but the context suggests to me that this is a casual setting with rarely enforced rules outside of whims. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Raven being misgendered in there is bullying equal to Raven casually using Monke's talked about suicidal tendencies to disregard him, they're both mean-spirited and bitter things, but one has, from what I can tell, a significantly more drastic effect.
I try to understand your position. I say try because I have not been in your shoes and cannot be in your shoes, so I look to other positions that I believe are similar, situations I can relate to. There are nuances separating them, of course, but they are approximate: the modern stigmatization of autism as some demon-power invented by scientists to take control of children and the weak-willed is as close a thing as I can get. So, I ask myself: if these were replaced with someone hounding a user for their autism, would I feel differently? The answer is no. I would still consider it a disgusting course of action, but not equal to trivialization of suicide.
You are free to disagree, of course. I encourage individual thought. I am simply trying to explain my position, which I hope you'll understand given the great push-back and conspiracy there has always been regarding it.
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azontr
He/Him- 40,579
- 50,192
Just to clarify, im 99% sure I have no stake in either of these accusations.
In the screenshot she posted of off-site "misgendering" accusations I am actively confirming that she is indeed a woman, as she had publicly sent a picture of her own face in a discord server I own and as such I knew that she wasn't a dude.
In the "catfishing accusation" screenshots, what comes afterwards is me being jokingly skeptical about the validity of said picture. Never after this did I, or really anyone, actively push the idea that Raven might be a man pretending to be a woman. There were no "plans" to reverse image search her photo to doxx her or something, as she may believe.
Just to clear that up, since I feel like I shouldn't be included in something I have relatively little part in.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
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Keep arguing and derailing to a minimum, please. I suspect there will be a number of other perspectives of other staff members arriving, there's little need to continue clogging the thread.
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Accusing Raven of being a man/misgendering her.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,080
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That was an obvious joke when the two of us were shitposting with each other. I very clearly was not seriously accusing her of being a man beyond the "all power scalers are men" shtick. The context makes this even more clear.
I talked to her about this off site just now and she thinks it isn't that severe. To try and equivocate whatever this is to actually denying the gender of somebody is ridiculously good deceptive.
Edit: Would I be banned if I called a woman a man for a joke on this site?
I talked to her about this off site just now and she thinks it isn't that severe. To try and equivocate whatever this is to actually denying the gender of somebody is ridiculously good deceptive.
Edit: Would I be banned if I called a woman a man for a joke on this site?
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Thank you for the response Bambuu, it's nice to hear another person's mindset in these kinds of discussions because it lets me further understand what may lead a person to think a certain way, making things more "humanized" in a way I guess (basically just saying it gives me more to consider). I also appreciate you trying to understand my perspective, as someone who is both trans and autistic I hope that I can offer some sort of insight on how certain actions and words can further affect the groups they're directed towards.
I will say, in response to Bambu (I won't be quoting it because big walls of text are hard for me to focus on, just know I did in fact read it.) that if Raven was in fact urging MonkeeMan to actual commit the act I wholeheartedly agree that it is terrible and should be punished. I personally think that it can be on the same level as misgendering, but that's because in my morals I believe that some things can be on the same level of evil or "bad", especially since they can lead to terrible things such as suicide and cause lots of emotional and mental distress.
Furthermore, I don't want to get into a big moral debate, but despite not being staff on VSBW specifically, my personal takeaway as that all these comments from the parties involved are very much vile and a breach of off-site conduct.
I personally believe, based on MonkeeMan's PAST conduct a more lengthy ban should be in order, coinciding with Raven's, but besides that what Bambuu proposed is pretty solid, and I agree with it.
I will say, in response to Bambu (I won't be quoting it because big walls of text are hard for me to focus on, just know I did in fact read it.) that if Raven was in fact urging MonkeeMan to actual commit the act I wholeheartedly agree that it is terrible and should be punished. I personally think that it can be on the same level as misgendering, but that's because in my morals I believe that some things can be on the same level of evil or "bad", especially since they can lead to terrible things such as suicide and cause lots of emotional and mental distress.
Furthermore, I don't want to get into a big moral debate, but despite not being staff on VSBW specifically, my personal takeaway as that all these comments from the parties involved are very much vile and a breach of off-site conduct.
I personally believe, based on MonkeeMan's PAST conduct a more lengthy ban should be in order, coinciding with Raven's, but besides that what Bambuu proposed is pretty solid, and I agree with it.
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GarrixianXD
University Enthusiast
Any/AllVS Battles
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Translation Helper
- 4,539
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GarrixianXD
University Enthusiast
Any/AllVS Battles
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- 4,539
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Gotcha.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
- 15,275
I won't make any more posts defending myself or the others after this, but on the topic of the misgendering thing, how is this an issue now?
See here, we've had people making jokes about users that claim to be women actually being men for a hot minute now.
Same for men as well.
It's hard to take a report like that seriously when there's been a history of multiple users making jokes about women on the site not actually being women, purely for the sake of comedy.
See here, we've had people making jokes about users that claim to be women actually being men for a hot minute now.
Same for men as well.
It's hard to take a report like that seriously when there's been a history of multiple users making jokes about women on the site not actually being women, purely for the sake of comedy.
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The former appears to be global, and not directed at a specific user. The latter appears to be entirely light-hearted banter amongst friends (although I am lacking the context). That is different from targeted harassment on the basis of persistent misgendering.
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Should be handlrhandled by staff privately. I also think it's a really bad idea to discuss taboo topics like *********** here. There are minors that read the RVR threads so discussing that doesn't seem appropriate.
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The comedic nature of the remarks is understood, but as Curry established, this does little to remediate the issue. A comment being a joke doesn't render it immune to judgment. Jokes can be cruel, inappropriate, uncalled for.
Your other remarks are repeating what you've said earlier, so I'll leave that be. I encourage you to stop commenting for now.
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I am currently advocating for a private report system that will allow for that, in order to avoid these long bitter public drama fests that spring up with nearly every report, but as it stands we lack a convenient mechanism to do so unless the proposal is accepted
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Will all due respect Deagon, while I understand the basis of that argument, this has nothing to do with the current situation. Raven regularly engaged in similar levels of banter when she was still in the server, and while she didn't say anything about being okay with this particular instance of messages, she hasn't brought up an issue with much worse stuff being said about her to her face.
Now that was the respectful way of addressing that particular concern. I would like to get into the manner of why it's an absolutely ludicrous, stupid and petty complaint to make, especially given other things she has said or been told. But I'll leave it be.
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You're not wrong, but I think it's sort of a separate argument. Raven participating in kind does significantly reduce the impact of the report. I primarily wanted to address the idea that the mockery being humorous doesn't grant absolute immunity here.
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
I never okay with comments about stoneing me to death.
None of my screenshots were friendly banter. I made sure I choose ones that I know absolutely guarantee, were malicious. Y'all were not calling me a fat neck beard when we were cool. Nor saying ppl would stone me to death was ever said other than other disgusting comments by mochy
his off site behavior is worse than yours
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Cool beans, also not the messages I was arguing about.
We were literally calling you worse things before you left.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,080
- 6,170
I promise I did not know this, and I don't even care to do that for you on discord of all places.
Even if I did, that would only undercut this report, it would prove I respect your sensibilities somewhat.
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As a friend of Arcker who used to hate his guts, I know damn well he didn't mean the usage of that word in a condescending or intentionally disrespectful manner
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Going to be honest, with the added context there isn't much room for a lesser evil approach. Everyone involved looks terrible.
Just going off of what's been provided:
Homophobic comments
Racial slurs
Misgendering
Etc.
Even as jokes, this isn't acceptable because it is related to us.
These are active members of our community, including some staff members, engaging in behaviors that just stink and reflect poorly on us as a whole. I find I do agree with Curry that we've just been letting this fester and it's giving a real bad look and air to the site for a while now. Especially with how we've handled things in the last year. Should've been handled in private is a fair comment, but we're past that point. Even more than that, to let this be out in the open and to show leniency in any regards makes a statement that we're okay with allowing it to be known that members of our community engage in foul behavior and do nothing just because it didn't happen in the forum directly. This has been brought to our wider attention, so now some action should be taken.
And whatever this action is, it should be applied unilaterally. No bans for some and warnings for others. I believe we've reached a point where no one has done well.
That is my public statement on the matter for all to see.
Now, as said previously as well, this should be taken into private. I would ask another staff member if able to create the private chat to discuss this more fully while I go through the trouble of clearing out the more explicit comments within this thread.
Just going off of what's been provided:
Homophobic comments
Racial slurs
Misgendering
Etc.
Even as jokes, this isn't acceptable because it is related to us.
These are active members of our community, including some staff members, engaging in behaviors that just stink and reflect poorly on us as a whole. I find I do agree with Curry that we've just been letting this fester and it's giving a real bad look and air to the site for a while now. Especially with how we've handled things in the last year. Should've been handled in private is a fair comment, but we're past that point. Even more than that, to let this be out in the open and to show leniency in any regards makes a statement that we're okay with allowing it to be known that members of our community engage in foul behavior and do nothing just because it didn't happen in the forum directly. This has been brought to our wider attention, so now some action should be taken.
And whatever this action is, it should be applied unilaterally. No bans for some and warnings for others. I believe we've reached a point where no one has done well.
That is my public statement on the matter for all to see.
Now, as said previously as well, this should be taken into private. I would ask another staff member if able to create the private chat to discuss this more fully while I go through the trouble of clearing out the more explicit comments within this thread.
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- Thread starter
- #25,827
It seems like a good idea if we continue to evaluate this entire extremely regrettable situation via private messages and stop talking about it further here in this thread until we have reached a conclusion, preferably only our bureaucrats and administrators, and possibly only our bureaucrats, HR members, and super moderators.
Also, a big reminder that I and other staff members have made great efforts to try to develop this community in a direction emphasising and encouraging greater kindness, tolerance, and collaboration, and that I would greatly appreciate a greater communal commitment to these ideals.
Also, a big reminder that I and other staff members have made great efforts to try to develop this community in a direction emphasising and encouraging greater kindness, tolerance, and collaboration, and that I would greatly appreciate a greater communal commitment to these ideals.
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- Thread starter
- #25,828
I have initiated a private staff conversation with several of our higher-ranked staff members, and will likely invite more of them later.
Please avoid making further comments here regarding this issue in the meantime.
Please avoid making further comments here regarding this issue in the meantime.
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btw, why is off site behaviour causing on site ban? i get that kinf of behavior being intolerable but does it even work like that?
say somebody does smth that isnt okay by instagram but then why would that also cause a ban on Reddit or Discord for example
say somebody does smth that isnt okay by instagram but then why would that also cause a ban on Reddit or Discord for example
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We recently had a change in our standards regarding how we handle off-site behavior, particularly in extreme cases
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In regard to the recent reports:
TheMonkeMan, LIFE_OF_KING, and Twisted_Little_Raven have each been given a 2 month ban on the basis of their misconduct directed towards each other and with consideration to their histories of similar issues. Arcker123 has been given a 2 week ban on the basis of their misconduct towards Twisted_Little_Raven. Further public discussion on this topic is not permitted.
TheMonkeMan, LIFE_OF_KING, and Twisted_Little_Raven have each been given a 2 month ban on the basis of their misconduct directed towards each other and with consideration to their histories of similar issues. Arcker123 has been given a 2 week ban on the basis of their misconduct towards Twisted_Little_Raven. Further public discussion on this topic is not permitted.
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If this is deleteworthy then its whatever, but it's because offsite behavior can encompass a number of things ranging from doxing, brigading, raiding, and any other type of off putting behavior you can imagine.
I would think it'd be in VSB's best interest to deal with these situations when they rise to a extreme prominence. This is a community after all, thats my two bits at least.
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Raven's ban reasoning link might've been mixed up with this, it gives a link that no longer exists. IDK if it affects the others involved and banned for this.
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mastrad1234
This user has posted a thread where it links to a very sexually explicit dating website and is advertising it for some reason from there tone they may have been hacked. Either way the link should be removed for starters.Thread linked
Edit (9:03 Pm) I just checked there user history it appears they also made a second thread on Saturday also advertising the same link (Seems they've been hacked since Saturday)
Another thread linked
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Reporting Vzearr for his constant antagonistic behavior in this thread.
He has been doing this for 8 threads so far, which I will list below:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-ftl-downgrade.164714/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-downgrade-thread.164764/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/jojos-downgrade-thread.164865/ (He straight up deleted the contents of OP here)
https://vsbattles.com/threads/bungou-strays-dogs-downgrade.163386/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/hazbin-hotel-downgrades.164672/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/arcke...an-hour-dishonored-revisions-part-1-5.163281/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/black...h-mftl-calc-and-light-speed-statement.163656/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/using-guns.164685/
Every single one of these threads has him being completely clueless as to how we do things on the wiki, which he then responds with arguments from incredulity,
running on personal beliefs, condescending and dismissive behavior, as well as mockery of those involved in this thread, without having a single iota of info or research regarding the verses, and then when people point out his errors to him, he has the gall to call us rude and "dicks" while doubling down on that behavior himself when things don't go his way. He even came to my DMs to ask me to settle the "grudge" I have with him despite me not wanting to engage with him further on this topic, with him even saying that he'd like to shape up on his CRTs (His current CRTs show no sign of him changing at all for the matter). IDK if he's done this with the others but other than me, he made the most contact with @CloverDragon03, @KingTempest and @M3X_2.0.
Oh, he made this after I told him not to contact me on DMs.
More recently, he has also attempted to make numerous rushed CRTs for verses that are already in the process of being revamped, and when confronted about his lack of research on these threads and verses and him rushing them, he resorts to the above behavior.
He has been doing this for 8 threads so far, which I will list below:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-ftl-downgrade.164714/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-downgrade-thread.164764/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/jojos-downgrade-thread.164865/ (He straight up deleted the contents of OP here)
https://vsbattles.com/threads/bungou-strays-dogs-downgrade.163386/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/hazbin-hotel-downgrades.164672/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/arcke...an-hour-dishonored-revisions-part-1-5.163281/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/black...h-mftl-calc-and-light-speed-statement.163656/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/using-guns.164685/
Every single one of these threads has him being completely clueless as to how we do things on the wiki, which he then responds with arguments from incredulity,
running on personal beliefs, condescending and dismissive behavior, as well as mockery of those involved in this thread, without having a single iota of info or research regarding the verses, and then when people point out his errors to him, he has the gall to call us rude and "dicks" while doubling down on that behavior himself when things don't go his way. He even came to my DMs to ask me to settle the "grudge" I have with him despite me not wanting to engage with him further on this topic, with him even saying that he'd like to shape up on his CRTs (His current CRTs show no sign of him changing at all for the matter). IDK if he's done this with the others but other than me, he made the most contact with @CloverDragon03, @KingTempest and @M3X_2.0.
Oh, he made this after I told him not to contact me on DMs.
More recently, he has also attempted to make numerous rushed CRTs for verses that are already in the process of being revamped, and when confronted about his lack of research on these threads and verses and him rushing them, he resorts to the above behavior.
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I've been summoned?
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