Roxy and Calliope's Gender

[HomestuckLover1]

This one is a lot more touchy than my previous thread on Toad was, but I felt it was worth mentioning nonetheless.

In Homestuck's epilogues and sequel series, Roxy's gender differs based on two different timelines, between the meat timeline and the candy timeline , using they/him pronouns and female pronouns respectively, although in the candy timeline they say that they're still figuring out their identity. For Roxy personally, I would put that their gender varies based on timeline or is unknown given that Roxy is still figuring out their identity in the one timeline where they keep their gender assigned at birth. Maybe an added disclaimer with this could help for context sake.

Calliope is alot more straightforward in that they're simply non-binary in both timelines, having only allowed themselves to be called female because of Calliborn's being influenced by Earth's gendered society where men were the ones in power.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Isn't the gender listed on the pages supposed to be the "biological" one?

And Alt Calliope still refers to herself as a female iirc, so would it be like, 2 different genders with a precision for each Calliope?

I don't really know how it works, hope that I didn't said some offensive shit tho.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Isn't the gender listed on the pages supposed to be the "biological" one?
And Alt Calliope still refers to herself as a female iirc, so would it be like, 2 different genders with a precision for each Calliope?

I don't really know how it works, hope that I didn't said some offensive shit tho.

Gender by definition isn't really biological. That's sex.

Calliope in the candy timeline only really allows people to call them female like they normally did throughout most of the series, but they explicitly state in the meat timeline this is because they didn't want to correct anyone. The reason they don't mention this in the candy timeline is because Roxy gets less involved in their life and doesn't seek self realization with the help of Calliope. And as far as biology goes, Calliope is no different from Caliborn. The concept of gender is just something that Caliborn forced on them to assert dominance.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Er, no. Gender isn't just listed as the biological sex. I remember distinctly that there is a fighting game character whose gender is listed as "transgender female". Mostly because someone threw a fit about that somehow being offensive to trans people. Not to mention, for the sexless Steven Universe characters we just have "genderless, identifies as she/her".

 

[QuasiYuri]

My bad then.

 

[Gf7tvtvfvtfyvfvfvfvfvfv]

there is also Cirava who has been confirmed by members of the Hiveswap Friendsim team to be non binary but their page refers to them as male

 

[Antvasima]

In cases where a character identifies as something other than their biological gender, we tend to write "Biologically ..., identifies as ..." for the sake of accuracy and not omitting important information.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

In that case, Roxy, Calliope, and Cirava need an update.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to do so according to my description above.

 

[Antvasima]

I will unlock Roxy Lalonde, Calliope, and Cirava Hermod. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Since Calliope isn't human, their gender/sex would probably be both of these:

• Hermaphrodite (type 3, yes there are apparently 3 types according to Wikipedia)
  • BSC = Bidirectional Sex Changers (having both male & female characteristics without distinct differences to tell their actual gender apart from each other and can act as either gender throughout their life cycle)

The common term that most people are familiar with for unknown genders:

• Agender (collectively refers to all genderless, non-binary and transgender characters)

^ Only this would apply for Roxy and maybe the Trolls but I'm not 100% sure (not referring about the Agender part for the trolls, they are fine with having that but the BSC one is what I'm a bit confused on if it applies to them too).

 

[Antvasima]

If "she" is an alien hermaphrodite, that should preferably be noted in "her" profile. We should try to be as accurate as possible.

Mashing together several very different types of characters into "agender" would not be specific and informative at all though.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Antvasima I prefer to separate the 2 instead of mixing them together.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, when relevant, we should specify both biology and personal self-identification, or the information will be confusing and inaccurate.

 

[Antvasima]

I will unlock Roxy Lalonde, Calliope, and Cirava Hermod. Tell me here when you are done.

@The Wright Way

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Antvasima I managed to found information that trolls do reproduce bisexuality, which qualifies them for being hermaphrodite (type 3; Bidirectional Sex Changers) along with them also having Agender.

Mentioning both of these gender/sexes separately on the page would be a better option to avoid the confusion then.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine, yes. Do you need any other profiles unlocked?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

@The Wright Way

Er, I can't directly edit profiles unfortunately. I'm always on mobile.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is unfortunate. Is somebody else willing to handle it?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Antvasima Okay, I'll do it for him then.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. You need to check if you neen any other pages for the trolls unlocked though, and then list their exact page titles here.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

All 3 character pages have been updated, so is there anyone else that needs updating @Homestuck and @The Wright Way?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

None that I can think of. No other characters in Homestuck have confirmed alternate gender identities.

Although, WOG confirms, or at least approves of, John being trans female and not realizing it yet. Albiet, he's currently dead, so I don't know how they intend to work with that. Probably best to not mess with that until it actually canonically happens.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The Wright Way Okay then.

@Antvasima No other changes need to made, you may close the thread now.

 

[Antvasima]

Shouldn't all the other trolls and cherubs also be noted as hermaphrodite, but identifying as male or female?

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'm not sure if trolls should be considered as hermaphrodite.

I mean, they reproduce by putting their genetics content into buckets, which is then given to the Mother Lusus. They're insect-like on this subject, like how Ants do it. While Alternian mammal are precised to be hermaphrodite.

Some castes are said to be (nearly) exclusively female or male, and trans character is a thing not really common (Lanque is like, the only one said to be so?)

Physical difference between genders is mentionned/implied more than one time for trolls, so there's that.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What about Calibor then? Shouldn't "he" be a hermaphrodite identifying as male?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Idk for Lord English, but Caliborn itself should be fine with this.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unlock the page. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Done.

However, for Calliope's page the note is kinda innacurate and not necessary useful, since trolls and cherubs aren't alike in term of biology.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Yuri Yeah, I was just as confused to whether to give the Trolls that because of their unclear biology too.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I understand yeah.

Also, wouldn't Epilogues Alt Calliope be genderless ? I mean, she's litteraly a black hole.

 

[Antvasima]

I will unlock Calliope. Tell me here when you have finished properly adjusting the page.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Done.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. I will lock Calliope and Caliborn then.

Is there anything left to do here?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Not anymore.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this thread then.