4th Wall Breaking tries to annex Plot Manip: Plot Manipulation demystification and removal

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

We preferably need to get this done though.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Does this mean cartoon users like Bugs Bunny or Spongebob's Plot Manipulation are 4th Wall Breaks?

 

[Antvasima]

So would you or somebody else here be willing to provide a draft for a new text for the Plot Manipulation page please?

@QuasiYuri @Ogbunabali @Qawsedf234 @Damage3245 @LordGriffin1000 @Sir_Ovens @Theglassman12 @Mr._Bambu @Eficiente @Confluctor @Planck69 @Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa @KLOL506

Is there really nobody who is willing to write a draft text for us? I can clean up the language flow afterwards if necessary.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Willing and capable are two different things. I have a tendency to **** up phrasing which makes shit hard to understand. I'd rather leave it to someone who knows how to handle such things, if at all possible.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

I tend to be too busy to focus properly on everything that needs to be included, but improving the wording of text segments goes much quicker for me.

 

[Promestein]

DT could write it I guess

 

[Antvasima]

So would you or somebody else here be willing to provide a draft for a new text for the Plot Manipulation page please?

Is there really nobody who is willing to write a draft text for us? I can clean up the language flow afterwards if necessary.

I tend to be too busy to focus properly on everything that needs to be included, but improving the wording of text segments goes much quicker for me.

DT could write it I guess

@DontTalkDT

Would you be willing to write a draft text please? I can clean it up afterwards if necessary.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I can try, although I would want to ask what people want to see included in it.
I guess for a start that plot manipulation should manipulate the plot as fundamental aspect of reality, not as a metaphor for other things (like fate).
Then an explanation of how plot manip has certain characteristic metafictional applications (e.g. fluid without properties that becomes water only after being described in plot).
In addition, I can add a section of "possible uses" in general. Y'know, stopping the plot, reality warping etc.

Anything else?

 

[Antvasima]

I can try, although I would want to ask what people want to see included in it.
I guess for a start that plot manipulation should manipulate the plot as fundamental aspect of reality, not as a metaphor for other things (like fate).
Then an explanation of how plot manip has certain characteristic metafictional applications (e.g. fluid without properties that becomes water only after being described in plot).
In addition, I can add a section of "possible uses" in general. Y'know, stopping the plot, reality warping etc.

Anything else?

@QuasiYuri @Damage3245 @Qawsedf234 @LordGriffin1000 @Sir_Ovens @DarkDragonMedeus @Eficiente @Theglassman12 @Confluctor @Planck69 @Promestein @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @Ogbunabali @KLOL506

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm still in agreement with DontTalkDT here.

 

[Elizhaa]

@QuasiYuri @Damage3245 @Qawsedf234 @LordGriffin1000 @Sir_Ovens @DarkDragonMedeus @Eficiente @Theglassman12 @Confluctor @Planck69 @Promestein @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @Ogbunabali @KLOL506

It seems fine.

 

[Theglassman12]

looks fine to me

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@QuasiYuri @Damage3245 @Qawsedf234 @LordGriffin1000 @Sir_Ovens @DarkDragonMedeus @Eficiente @Theglassman12 @Confluctor @Planck69 @Promestein @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @Ogbunabali @KLOL506

Still vague for my tastes. Still, I am clearly outvoted. I've no intention to die on this hill.

 

[Confluctor]

Same opinion as above

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. You can probably apply your suggested changes then DontTalk.

 

[Vietthai96]

manipulate the plot as fundamental aspect of reality

Plot Manipulation is the ability to manipulating the plot, narrative itself as fundamental aspect of reality. Allowing user to altering the course of events, progression of reality, etc...... however they wanted

possible uses

1. change fate, change probability
2. change cause and effect
3. warp reality, law and logic
4. stop, skip, ignore, accelerate, remove, add plot/narrative

Well that all i can think off. Honestly this power is kinda even more "abstract" than reality warping, and at the same time it is much more versatile, have many application

 

[DontTalkDT]

Alright, then how about this:

Summary​

Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself. As such, by altering the plot, one can archieve virtually any effect, in a similar fashion as with reality warping.

Despite that, plot manipulation has certain applications that are not exclusive, but characteristic for the power. Such examples are stopping not just time, but the plot, or creating something that lacks any discernable properties until the plot describes what it is (e.g. a glass holding a fluid, that truly is no specific fluid until it is specified that the fluid is water).

Note that plot manipulation should not be listed just because a power is compared to a trope or otherwise metafiction is used as a metaphor. For instance, a character that is lucky or fated to win like the protagonist of a story would only get this power if that is done by altering the plot. Otherwise it would simply be Supernatural Luck or Fate Manipulation.

Possible Uses​

• Users may be able to detemine how things will proceed by writing into the plot what is going to happen (emulating fate, causality and/or probability manipulation).
• Users may be able transform things into other things by altering their description in the plot.
• Users may be able to retroactively change the past, by changing what is recorded about the past in the plot.
• Users may be able to control the action and/or thoughts of others by writing what they do or think into the plot.
• Users may create things by writing that they are present into the plot.
• Users may erase things by erasing any mention of them from the plot.

The possible uses are of course not exhaustive, but just examples.

 

[Vietthai96]

The possible uses

What about changing the fate by changing the future plot???.

Anyway i agree with your summary. Next we should including some examples. And a note say: the limitation of the ability is depend on what the user have been displayed so far in their verse to avoid NLF, or something similar

 

[Antvasima]

I am also fine with if you apply your current draft for the page, DontTalk. Thank you very much for helping out. You are awesome.

(I made a few minor structural adjustments though.)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

DT's draft looks ok.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Elizhaa]

It could be a good idea to elaborate on No Limit Fallacy (NLF) not being allowed similar to what is explained on the Power Nullification page because Plot Manipulation tends to get NLF.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems like a good point, yes.

 

[DontTalkDT]

What about changing the fate by changing the future plot???.

That's the first point of the possible uses section.

Anyway i agree with your summary. Next we should including some examples. And a note say: the limitation of the ability is depend on what the user have been displayed so far in their verse to avoid NLF, or something similar

The Users section lists examples. I will of course keep that.

It could be a good idea to elaborate on No Limit Fallacy (NLF) not being allowed similar to what is explained on the Power Nullification page because Plot Manipulation tends to get NLF.

I will add a note regarding NLF as requested.

Revised Draft:

Summary​

Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself. As such, by altering the plot, one can archieve virtually any effect, in a similar fashion as with reality warping.

Despite that, plot manipulation has certain applications that are not exclusive, but characteristic for the power. Such examples are stopping not just time, but the plot, or creating something that lacks any discernable properties until the plot describes what it is (e.g. a glass holding a fluid, that truly is no specific fluid until it is specified that the fluid is water).

Note that plot manipulation should not be listed just because a power is compared to a trope or otherwise metafiction is used as a metaphor. For instance, a character that is lucky or fated to win like the protagonist of a story would only get this power if that is done by altering the plot. Otherwise it would simply be Supernatural Luck or Fate Manipulation.

Furthermore, regarding No-Limits Fallacy: Users can not bring out any imaginable effect. They are assumed to be limited in both applications and scale to what they demonstrated or can be reasoned to be capable based on reliable statements.

Possible Uses​

• Users may be able to detemine how things will proceed by writing into the plot what is going to happen (emulating fate, causality and/or probability manipulation).
• Users may be able transform things into other things by altering their description in the plot.
• Users may be able to retroactively change the past, by changing what is recorded about the past in the plot.
• Users may be able to control the action and/or thoughts of others by writing what they do or think into the plot.
• Users may create things by writing that they are present into the plot.
• Users may erase things by erasing any mention of them from the plot.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out. To me that seems fine to apply.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes, the updates largely seem fine.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I have applied the change.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out. You are awesome as always.

Is it fine if we close this thread then?

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so then.

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.