Rose Quartz vs Natsu Dragneel

[Paulo.junior.969]

This show likes to keep what happened in the Gem War vague, probably so they can make new shit up later.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It's not really hard to stomp things way weaker than you for thousands of years. To say that they fought something comparable to themselves when there is no indicator of such has no basis.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Seriously tho, I really don't see why we should assume any other civilization in SU is as powerful as the Gems when not only we know nothing about them, but the Gems see wiping them all as a boring chore (unless you have proof that the civilizations are comparable to the Gems, and if you have, I really don't know why you haven't shown it yet).

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Nope, all we know is Garnet and Bismuth alone, both of whom were trained personally by Rose and both of whom lack any hax, beat three battalions

So unless there's another feat, is the entire argument of Rose being more skilled based on a statement that's never shown on screen and is never brought up again?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragon Its based on dozens of feats and statements throughout the entire series my dude

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What other feats and statements?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I could also mention that Garnet has Precognition, which could have helped, but defeating three battalions by themselves would still be an impressive feat even with that.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragon Everything i and everyone else already told you. Plus happening on screen doesnt in any way invalidate a feat of skill

 

[The_Wright_Way]

It's not really hard to stomp things way weaker than you for thousands of years. To say that they fought something comparable to themselves when there is no indicator of such has no basis.

So, what you're saying is in a universe where 6-B weapons can be built from random scrap in a barn. (Peridot made turrets capable of killing fodders in save the light and hurting bosses and does so on the fly) only one species in the entire universe reached that level of advancement? Out of billions of planets they've conquered? Yeah, no.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

The only other thing mentioned on this thread was Rose scaling to Hessonite who scales to being approved by Diamonds who scale to stomping civilizations. That's not an indicator of skill, especially when there's no indication of the strength of the civilizations or if the Diamonds took part in combat themselves.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Seriously people, if you guys think there are other civilizations on the "SUverse" who are as powerful as the Gems, just show proof, it's not that hard.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The only other thing mentioned on this thread was Rose scaling to Hessonite who scales to being approved by Diamonds who scale to stomping civilizations. That's not an indicator of skill, especially when there's no indication of the strength of the civilizations or if the Diamonds took part in combat themselves.

"She's a tactical genius, having the skill to lead her small ragtag army to victory over the entire force of Homeworld, an entire planet's army that outnumbered them by several hundred to one and was far more technologically advanced, to the point that the combined forces of two Diamonds were forced to flee and even veteran soldiers like Jasper who was quite literally created to be the ultimate quartz warrior that fought against Rose's armies developing a respect for her tactical skill in combat."

So you just missed this or...?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

So, what you're saying is in a universe where 6-B weapons can be built from random scrap in a barn. (Peridot made turrets capable of killing fodders in save the light and hurting bosses and does so on the fly) only one species in the entire universe reached that level of advancement? Out of billions of planets they've conquered? Yeah, no.

That's extremely shaky logic which is based on them "probably" fighting someone comparable to themselves. There is no indication of that in the series, especially when they view other civilizations as easy to destroy, likely due to never having to face competition before. If you have evidence of them actually fighting someone comparable to themselves, feel free to show it but if there isn't any then you shouldn't assume the scenario that grants the best feats.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

"She's a tactical genius, having the skill to lead her small ragtag army to victory over the entire force of Homeworld, an entire planet's army that outnumbered them by several hundred to one and was far more technologically advanced, to the point that the combined forces of two Diamonds were forced to flee and even veteran soldiers like Jasper who was quite literally created to be the ultimate quartz warrior that fought against Rose's armies developing a respect for her tactical skill in combat."

So you just missed this or...?

Tactical genius =/= Combat genius. Her strategy let her army win. A 6-B struggling against another 6-B with High 6-A shields isn't exactly a skill feat for the one with the shield.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Tactical genius =/= Combat genius. Her strategy let her army win. A 6-B struggling against another 6-B with High 6-A shields isn't exactly a skill feat for the one with the shield.

Did you forget the other guy had a High 6-A weapon.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragon Except Rose lead almost exclusively from the front line engaging Gems whose entire reason for existing is that theyre the most skilled warriors Homeworld has to offer, and she fought Hessonite who is considered a perfect warrior while Hessonite had a High 6-A weapon

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Did you forget the other guy had a High 6-A weapon.

"even veteran soldiers like Jasper who was quite literally created to be the ultimate quartz warrior that fought against Rose's armies developing a respect for her tactical skill in combat."

Was talking about Jasper when I said that.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

@Dragon Except Rose lead almost exclusively from the front line engaging Gems whose entire reason for existing is that theyre the most skilled warriors Homeworld has to offer, and she fought Hessonite who is considered a perfect warrior while Hessonite had a High 6-A weapo

Yes, she beat the 6-Bs that didn't have High 6-A weaponry and tied against the one that did. Skill doesn't help against something you have to get past to win that's unbreakable to your power level. That's just being competent, especially with how you said she could manipulate her shield.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

We can still scale her skill from Garnet and Bismuth tho; it is vague as all hell, but there's nothing wrong with the feat itself.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragon Except Rose didnt win the war through sheer power, on the contrary she and the Crystal Gems were exponentially outmanned, outgunned, and had far inferior technology, hence why she had to rely on skill and strategy and even then they didnt actually win, the Diamonds just decided to nuke the planet so they didnt have to deal with it anymore

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Ok, so Rose still has a valid skill feat, that being the Garnet and Bismuth one, and Natsu's Power Null would work because Magic in FT is the same thing as the actual thing. Can we move on with the thread now?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

It still wouldn't affect healing far greater than what's shown to work on.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Sure, they were had less people, worse technology, and less firepower but they still had a fighter that couldn't be damaged by any of the normal enemies and could stalemate the strongest one. This isn't about Rose's ability to lead her troops correctly, this is about Rose's ability to fight herself. Doing what she did took tactics and strategy but that doesn't translate onto a fight between yourself and the opponent.

For the skill thing, I'm asking a lot of questions because I want to know how to rank it. Obviously, beating multiple people with the same strength by yourself takes skill but without the actual way it went down it's not really explainable. For example, Taskmaster from Marvel is highly skilled because he can replicate any move or style used after seeing it. This situation is like if Taskmaster beat several comparable martial artists, but to the audience his ability to replicate things he's seen is unknown and they don't get to see the fight. We know that Garnet and Bismuth did the feat, but we have no idea how they did it or what happened. Sure, we can call that skill but you can't use that in a vsmatch because the method with which the feat was done is completely unknown.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It still wouldn't affect healing far greater than what's shown to work on.

So it would still work because Zeref can come back from a complete lack of a body.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Ok, so Rose is far moe skilled since her warriors can fight thousands of comparable opponents by themselves, while Natsu can nullify Rose's Regen; with that in mind, can we please go back to the fight now?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragon He didnt come back through Regenerationn he came back through time manipulation thats completely different, the most its been shown to null regen-wise is whats on his profile

 

[The_Wright_Way]

So it would still work because Zeref can come back from a complete lack of a body.

Via manipulating time, not via regen.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Except Regenerationn is a power which still gets nulled by power nullification.

Anyways, my point still stands. In comparison to Rose, Natsu's feat of skill is the ability to memorize the patterns of his opponent. How they move, what signs they give off before they do certain things,etc.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Except Regenerationn is a power which still gets nulled by power nullification.

Anyways, my point still stands. In comparison to Rose, Natsu's feat of skill is the ability to memorize the patterns of his opponent. How they move, what signs they give off before they do certain things,etc.

Except it's never shown to work on Rose's level of Regenerationn.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

And with gems and regen, when a gem regens is it like

Situation: Arm is cut off


A: Gem grows back arm

or

B: Gem poofs and then makes a new fixed body

because if it's B that's just projection and not Regenerationn.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Except it's never shown to work on Rose's level of Regenerationn.

Except the power nullification isn't limited by the level of Regenerationn, especially not when they have been shown to be able to null an ability that's a better version of that Regenerationn.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragon Its both. They can regen arms without needing to regenerate their entire bodies but if they sustain more serious damage they poof and regenerate their entire bodies from scratch

 

[The_Wright_Way]

How is that projection? It's their body coming back either way.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except the power nullification isn't limited by the level of Regenerationn, especially not when they have been shown to be able to null an ability that's a better version of that Regenerationn.

Yes actually it is. You need to show explicitly what level of regen you can null to know its limit. Said limit in this case is Low-Mid

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Coming back from no trace > having to come back from a small piece.

You don't need to have feats of nulling a weaker version of something you already can. Besides, the limit isn't Mid, he's only nulled Mid levels of normal regen. Him being able to neg regen is just support for his power nullification, which has worked on EE, Time manip, and Death manip.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Coming back from no trace > having to come back from a small piece.

You don't need to have feats of nulling a weaker version of something you already can. Besides, the limit isn't Mid, he's only nulled Mid levels of normal regen. Him being able to neg regen is just support for his power nullification, which has worked on EE, Time manip, and Death manip.

Via time manipulation. Or are you saying Frisk has Regenerationn via RESETS?

Regenerationn from one piece is better than anything Natsu has shown to null. He needs feats to prove he can null it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Cool so the limit we can accurately say he can null is only Mid, without feats of doing so against a higher level of regen you cannot argue that he can null anything better than that level

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Except that's not how hax works. That's like saying if Natsu has only been shown able to power null time stop, that doesn't mean he can power null time acceleration. The regen has no resistance to power null and it's not even one of the godly's so his null still works.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

That is exactly how hax works. Time accel would work as Natsu have never shown to null it. You cannot argue the null can work on things its never shown to work on, thats the definition of NLF

Also stop saying Natsu nulled Low-Godly regen because thats outright false

 

[Schnee_One]

Except that's not how hax works. That's like saying if Natsu has only been shown able to power null time stop, that doesn't mean he can power null time acceleration.

That's 100% true though

What's their to Powernull? The acceleration isn't affecting Natsu, it's affecting the opponent.