Roronoa Zoro vs Sasaki Kojiro

[Bernkastelll]

They can sense nonexistent type 2 beings like Kama, abstract like Kama itself and gods in general like Romulus or abstract that isn't a god like Nobuna Avenger, they can feel acausalities like BB (who have type 1, 2, 3 and 4), Mushashi, and even some of the characters I mentioned in the other parts also have acausality.

What is special about feeling it and how does this affect the match

 

[Rez]

None of what you posted above makes Sasaki more skilled than Zoro either, as those feats as left vague (EMIYA's copying from heroes that lack skill feats.)

Beowulf and Hector(who is pretty much equal to Achilles in term of skills only)

 

[RazumaHiroki]

s far superior to Heracles skill wise the same Heracles can use nine lives a technique that makes 9 near-simultaneous consecutive strikes and under under FATE system can make 100 strikes in a breath

East Blue Luffy's Gatling can do the same thing, furthermore if we assume abilities to equate to Skills. Then
Luffy's black mamba is a more powerful and omnidirectional version of jet Gatling. It could literally attack from all direction and each strong enough to hurt Katakuri, who like thousands times more powerful than lucci (Lucci is confirmed to have precognition, while Katakuri can consistently see into the future for 5 secs). You probably remember at the end of Luffy vs Lucci, who luffy punched lucci more than 100 times in an instant aka Jet Gatling.

Is far superior to EMIYA in term of skills. The same EMIYA has copied weapons from several famous heroes (the copied weapons also gives him the skills and memories of the original weilder of the weapons)

I thought you guys said copying skills/styles = / = a skill feat. Besides, Emiya may have been their "owner", but he's not their "wielder", he can copy as many weapons as possible, but he will never successfully master certain weapons such as Saber's Escalibur or Gilgamesh's GOB. He himself admitted that, and also to say it in Gilgamesh's words "FAKER"

Is far superior to Artoria king of knight in terms of skills who is an extremely accomplished swordsman

How exactly skilled are those swordsman? Zoro before he joined the strawhats was worldwide known to be a "notorious and skilled pirate hunter" even the likes of Buggy, Kuro and Crocodile -- one of the Shishibukai knew about Zoro's reputation. Time-skip Zoro was trained by the world strongest swordsman in One piece, the same guy who effortlessly defeated Zoro with a butter knife and fought against Shanks -- a Yonko, whose name can be heard throughout the grandline, east blue and the new world (meaning more than 10 million islands).

Can hold his own against characters superior to him with sheer skills

Zoro can do that as well (Kaku, Zombie Ryuma and Killer).

And most important of all can fight evenly with Musashi Miyamoto

Feats and scans?

Knowledge of Respect and Harmony makes it so his opponent will never get used to his attacks
Ability description
Knowledge of Respect and Harmony: Assassin's techniques cannot be properly perceived by his opponents no matter how many times they're demonstrated. As a result, it is impossible for an opponent to get used to them. Thus the tenth, hundredth, or even thousandth encounter against him will feel the same as the first, so his techniques will always retain their effectiveness against his opponents.

Eh, sounds like no limit fallacy to me.

 

[Rez]

I thought you guys said copying skills/styles = / = a skill feat. Besides, Emiya may have been their "owner", but he's not their "wielder", he can copy as many weapons as possible, but he will never successfully master certain weapons such as Saber's Escalibur or Gilgamesh's GOB. He himself admitted that, and also to say it in Gilgamesh's words "FAKER"

EMIYA can't even copy divine weapons like Excalibur and ubw makes it so he instantly knows all of the skills of the original weilder of the weapon

 

[Rez]

Feats and scans?

Literally on his profile in his intelligence section

 

[Rez]

Eh, sounds like no limit fallacy to me.

How?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

EMIYA can't even copy divine weapons like Excalibur and ubw makes it so he instantly knows all of the skills of the original weilder of the weapon

Again, he may be their owner, but he's not their wielder in the sense he could copy Gal borg for example but will never come close to the skills of a certain "Doggy" and "Mommy". He's essentially creating "cheap imitations of weapons" that can match with the "originals", but what i do consider skilled when it comes to Emiya is how he counters Servants stronger than him, for instance his fight with Berserker in FS route.

 

[Rez]

How exactly skilled are those swordsman? Zoro before he joined the strawhats was worldwide known to be a "notorious and skilled pirate hunter" even the likes of Buggy, Kuro and Crocodile -- one of the Shishibukai knew about Zoro's reputation. Time-skip Zoro was trained by the world strongest swordsman in One piece, the same guy who effortlessly defeated Zoro with a butter knife and fought against Shanks -- a Yonko, whose name can be heard throughout the grandline, east blue and the new world (meaning more than 10 million islands).

How is being known by people skills? Servants are servants because they have been recognised as heroes via entire humanity. Heck Kojiro isn't even a proper servant or even the actual Kojiro he is just some random guy who happens to be so skilled that the grail decided to give him the role of Kojiro

 

[Rez]

Again, he may be their owner, but he's not their wielder in the sense he could copy Gal borg for example but will never come close to the skills of a certain "Doggy" and "Mommy". He's essentially creating "cheap imitations of weapons" that can match with the "originals", but what i do consider skilled when it comes to Emiya is how he counters Servants stronger than him, for instance his fight with Berserker in FS route.

The weapons themselves are downgraded but the skills are 100% the same

 

[Rez]

It's even written on shirou's profile

The weapons themselves are downgraded but the skills are 100% the same

 

[KingAllen30]

Again, he may be their owner, but he's not their wielder in the sense he could copy Gal borg for example but will never come close to the skills of a certain "Doggy" and "Mommy". He's essentially creating "cheap imitations of weapons" that can match with the "originals", but what i do consider skilled when it comes to Emiya is how he counters Servants stronger than him, for instance his fight with Berserker in FS route.

EMIYA can copy the skill but he can’t perfectly copied the weapon itself

 

[RazumaHiroki]

How is being known by people skills? Servants are servants because they have been recognised as heroes via entire humanity. Heck Kojiro isn't even a proper servant or even the actual Kojiro he is just some random guy who happens to be so skilled that the grail decided to give him the role of Kojiro

Those people are notorious pirates and other bounty hunters who had heard of rumors about a very strong and skilled person using only three swords. Most pirates are also wary of Zoro's existence as "pirate hunter". There are also pirates and bounty hunters who wanted to hire him, even Sir crocodile wanted to hire him as an assassin for the baroque works, this proves that way before he joined the strawhats his infamous three swords style reached to the grandline.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

The weapons themselves are downgraded but the skills are 100% the same

Eh...? how? allow me to rephrase that, to make some things clear here. EMIYA creates fake imitations of original weapons from legendary historical people, if he wields a specific weapon he gets the skills from the previous wielder of said weapon?

 

[Rez]

Those people are notorious pirates and other bounty hunters who had heard of rumors about a very strong and skilled person using only three swords. Most pirates are also wary of Zoro's existence as "pirate hunter". There are also pirates and bounty hunters who wanted to hire him, even Sir crocodile wanted to hire him as an assassin for the baroque works, this proves that way before he joined the strawhats his infamous three swords style reached to the grandline.

If you are counting fame as skills than servants like Herc, Artoria and especially Musashi and Lancelot are famous throughout human history for their skills and Kojiro is superior to them

 

[Rez]

Eh...? how? allow me to rephrase that, to make some things clear here. EMIYA creates fake imitations of original weapons from legendary historical people, if he wields a specific weapon he gets the skills from the previous wielder of said weapon?

Yes he does he learns the skills of the previous wielder the moment he copies a weapon this is exactly the reason why shirou was able to use nine lives

 

[Rez]

If you are counting fame as skills than servants like Herc, Artoria and especially Musashi and Lancelot are famous throughout human history for their skills and Kojiro is superior to them

Let me rephrase he is only superior in terms of sheer skills

 

[RazumaHiroki]

If you are counting fame as skills than servants like Herc, Artoria and especially Musashi and Lancelot are famous throughout human history for their skills and Kojiro is superior to them

That's not really my point though. It's fame through other skilled and prominent characters in the verse, while it can be considered as "skill feat", it's just an in-verse reputation, most in the case "reputation" means nothing, let's say Mihawk were to fight Ichigo, his reputation as "strongest swordsman" only applies to his verse.

Anyways, you didn't answered my question as to what makes the swordsmen in Artoria's country so skilled? or Herc,? you mentioned him being able to make 100 strikes in a breath, something Luffy always does in-character, yet beginning of the grandline Luffy is comparable to Zoro in terms of skills.

 

[Regidian]

But anyways if we want do a lost of some good skill guy that sasaki is above we have.


Inshun is able to cope with any enemy he encounters and calmly and accurately ward off their attacks. The techniques are even able to deal with disadvantages such as facing an enemy for the first time or being exposed to bizarre techniques, strange weapons or magecraft. It's said that no matter what the attack is, Inshun is able to ward it off and deal a deadly blow in return and its effects become stronger should he encounter anyone with skills like Bravery and Instinct.

Kengou Battou: Ishana-Daitenshou: Following her fight with Saber Emperio, she fully mastered her technique. She is now no longer limited to choosing existing possibilities. She can now create new ones entirely, and find an answer that lies outside the bounds of possibility. With this, she was able to counter Yagyu's ability to account and find a counter for every possibility in a given scenario, despite her having technically no possible way to win. It is the ability to "slash through the unbreakable heavens themselves."


Settlement Sword (Shimatsuken): The unorthodox swordsmanship of Okada Izō, a genius swordsman with the ability to copy any style of swordsmanship and any sword techniques after just a glance.

Mumyō Sandanzuki (Lightless, Three-Stage Thrust)
It consists of three concealed sword thrusts, produced by transcendent technique and speed that surpasses the ability of any normal human swordsman. Instead of occurring consecutively, one right after the other, all three thrusts occur at the same time at the same position. Even if the first thrust was blocked, the second and third would break through, and the contradiction caused by this results in a breakdown of causality at the tip of Okita's sword, making it virtually impossible to defend against. As it results in the collapse of causal relationships, the destruction it causes is not limited to physical things.

This Karna does not carry a spear, he only has his fists. But, that doesn't mean there is a decrease in his combat power. For he was trained by Drona, an expert in all aspects of martial arts,

He is extremely adept at reading others and their body language due to his Discernment of the Poor skill, and is cold and calculating in combat, easily maneuvering his spear to strike Siegfried's vital points 78 times when the latter tried to utilize his robust body and incredible swordsmanship to gain the upper-hand.


She is particularly notable in that her Wisdom of the Haunted Grounds skill allows her to use practically any skill that isn't unique to a particular hero, allowing her to use a variety of skills and techniques from across history to overwhelm her foes and can see the future through Clairvoyance. (The clairvoyancen and preco of scatach allow her to see years in the futur "During combat, she often uses Clairvoyance to read the future, predicting the future with such accuracy that she was able to predict the circumstances of Cú Chulainn's death").



His swordsmanship is nearly unrivaled, but he can use virtually anything in his vicinity as a weapon, managing to defeat a heavily armed opponent with only an elm branch.


Listing each feat of skill of skilled servant will be way too long so just have listed some thing.

For the beat stronger than them, i mean it litteraly part of sasaki to have battle many master stronger than him.

For experience some of these guy are thousands of years old, having battle everytime with guy stronger than them etc

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Not just wano, dressrosa is affected as well (because a certain person felt the need to recalc the pica calc that put Zoro at island lvl out of spite)

Doesn't Gin said that Zoro would be around 22 gigatons in this match?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

******* telling you, Nasu was definitely a mistake.

You'll get used to it - a certain girl from goblin slayer

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Doesn't Gin said that Zoro would be around 22 gigatons in this match?

(You are under the assumption the certain calcer will just stop at there)

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Anyways, i'm extremely sleepy. So ya in the next 8 or 9 hours.

 

[Rez]

Anyways, you didn't answered my question as to what makes the swordsmen in Artoria's country so skilled? or Herc,? you mentioned him being able to make 100 strikes in a breath, something Luffy always does in-character, yet beginning of the grandline Luffy is comparable to Zoro in terms of skills.

Berserker Lancelot is so skilled that any weapon in his hand is equivalent to a noble phantasm and his Saber version obliviously way more skilled because of no longer being hindered by madness enchantment
Herc's nine lives has two versions first is 9 near instantaneous strikes designed especially to kill the immortal hydra and other 100 very powerful strikes done in a breath. The technique targets vital parts and herc can do it with any weapon he also qualifies for all of the classes except for caster and is superior to several other Greek heroes (like Achilles and Hector (who are both renowned servants) both in terms of skill and power

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

(You are under the assumption the certain calcer will just stop at there)

I mean, can't you blame him? In the end this wikia is all about indexing

But let's not talking about this here, we're gonna derailing

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Also a quick note, i would'nt be around starting tomorrow until friday/thursday because my phone would be taken by my father to his hometwon for check out alongside with my long distance brothers (result are either new battery or phone)

So i'll be missing a lot's of stuff in this thread lel

 

[Rez]

100 strikes in an instant themselves are nothing impressive in fate

Here you have an not so serious Archer and Lancer casually trading 100s of strikes


but when it comes to nine lives it is the fact that Heracles is doing it that makes it impressive

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Rez How about Raikou?

 

[Eminiteable]

I've seen mention that this version of Kojiro can only produce three attacks at once, Zoro can produce six at once.

 

[Rez]

I've seen mention that this version of Kojiro can only produce three attacks at once, Zoro can produce six at once.

Three attacks done simultaneously via using an application of second true magic

Second magic's description from Zelritch's profile
The Second Magic: The second true magic to be discovered, also known as "Zelretch" and "Kaleidoscope", in honor of its discoverer. The Second Magic revolves around the "operation of parallel worlds", allowing him to do anything ranging from traveling through them to using them as a source of energy and even revising and rewriting events. Whereas magecraft is the realization of something that technology can accomplish but through supernatural means, Magic is a miracle, something that is impossible through science.

 

[Eminiteable]

Three attacks done simultaneously via using an application of second true magic

Second magic's description from Zelritch's profile
The Second Magic: The second true magic to be discovered, also known as "Zelretch" and "Kaleidoscope", in honor of its discoverer. The Second Magic revolves around the "operation of parallel worlds", allowing him to do anything ranging from traveling through them to using them as a source of energy and even revising and rewriting events. Whereas magecraft is the realization of something that technology can accomplish but through supernatural means, Magic is a miracle, something that is impossible through science.

I don't remember asking how it was produced as that's unimportant.

He produces three simultaneous slashes at once, Zoro produces six simultaneous slashes at once and have tens of kilometers range.

 

[Regidian]

In Fate/Unlimited Codes, Assassin can use a technique called Hikan: Tsubami Mai, which is a series of six high-speed slashes he performs on his enemy before getting into position and ending it with Tsubami Gaeshi.
Can do that too

 

[Rez]

I don't remember asking how it was produced as that's unimportant.

He produces three simultaneous slashes at once, Zoro produces six simultaneous slashes at once and have tens of kilometers range.

Tsubame gaeshi's description from fate complete material

After a long period of time, his technique finally reached another state. A flash from this world, followed by two absolutely simultaneous, over-lapping flashes that disregard the concept of time and space, producing a slash attack that arrives from three different directions. This is the “Multidimensional Refraction Phenomenon—Kischua Zelretch” that transcends speed, dexterity, feint and many other elements. Although with some limitations, a nameless martial artist who knows naught of sorcery or True Magic is able to tread into the realm of the “Second Magic”.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Being able to predict all possible possibilities and find the best possible outcome from those said possibilities sounds better to me

Better than being able to see the future and change it?

 

[Regidian]

I don't remember asking how it was produced as that's unimportant.

He produces three simultaneous slashes at once, Zoro produces six simultaneous slashes at once and have tens of kilometers range.

If you want do by number nine live do nine at once and it's still no as good sasaki

 

[Regidian]

Better than being able to see the future and change it?

Scathach is better than zoro in that and she still lower than sasaki in skill

 

[Rez]

I don't remember asking how it was produced as that's unimportant.

He produces three simultaneous slashes at once, Zoro produces six simultaneous slashes at once and have tens of kilometers range.

It is important because unlike Zoro's asura these attacks are happening exactly at the same time with not even a single moments difference

 

[Eminiteable]

which is a series of six high-speed slashes

Speed is equalised

Although with some limitations, a nameless martial artist who knows naught of sorcery or True Magic is able to tread into the realm of the “Second Magic”.

If you want do by number nine live do nine at once and it's still no as good sasaki

Has he ever produced nine in this key?

 

[Eminiteable]

It is important because unlike Zoro's asura these attacks are happening exactly at the same time with not even a single moments difference

I'm not referring to Asura, Zoro's Rokudo no Tsuji produces six simultaneous slashes at the same time.

 

[Rez]

Has he ever produced nine in this key?

Hercules is not Sasaki. Sasaki is just far superior to herc in skills

 

[Regidian]

Speed is equalised


Has he ever produced nine in this key?

In this key he still higher in skill that heracles who can do this. Not being able to produce nine doens't make it lower in skill (even more when he do 3 with one weapon and zoro 6 with 3 weapon)