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039%20Kojiro%20Sasaki%204.png
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Roronoa Zoro
Base Sasaki Kojiro
Speed equalized
 
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Good thing you choose The Assasin Kojiro instead his Saber Key, i was typed "Tsubame Gaeshi GG" until i realize this is his base version
 
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Sasaki has the AP advantage however knowing this Zoro would use his own amps as well as go for his dura neg techniques. They both have sensory abilities that enable each other to know the others next move.

Sasaki has knowledge of respect and harmony meaning that Zoro will not be able to adapt to his techniques as it states "Assassin's techniques cannot be properly perceived by his opponents no matter how many times they're demonstrated. As a result, it is impossible for an opponent to get used to them. Thus the tenth, hundredth, or even thousandth encounter against him will feel the same as the first, so his techniques will always retain their effectiveness against his opponents."

While I don't think this will screw over Zoro, it just means that fighting him will be more difficult, ultimately we will need to compare the skill of both characters as that's what I think imo will decide the fight.

As a plus for Sasaki, he has Vitrification which allows him to resist fear hax from Zoro however I don't think that it will allow him to conceal himself from kenbun haki, the statement says, "Due to Assassin's serene state of mind, he is immune to mental interference. In addition, his B+ Rank in this skill allows him to conceal his presence if he pleases, allowing him to simulate the True Assassin's Presence Concealment skill to a limited extent, making it difficult for even Servants to detect along with his lack of mana and a true Noble Phantasm." so One Piece supporters take that as you will.

This is not a vote for Sasaki however as I'd like to see how Zoro counters this or if I forgot something for Zoro, I am leaning on Sasaki however.
 
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Another thing i should mention is that the Tsubame Gaeshi, once Kojiro landed it to Zoro it's pretty much game over, even Artoria instinct skill can't reacted that much on this technique (remember, instinct = kenbushoku haki)

Good thing this is the normal Tsubame Gaeshi, Saber Kojiro Tsubame Gaeshi is even more busted lel
 
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Sasaki has the AP advantage however knowing this Zoro would use his own amps as well as go for his dura neg techniques. They both have sensory abilities that enable each other to know the others next move.
What is Sasaki's AP? If the gap is higher than 3x or 4x i legit don't see Zoro closing it.

Also, dura neg? Breath isn't dura neg anymore, can't remember any other.
 
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A 5x or so gap, Zoro isn't closing it, while 10 hit's from Kojiro may be enough to end the battle, i think it's better to throw Zoro at a berserker that isn't Lancelot or Hercules, so Zoro's skill would be a huge factor.
 

UchihaSlayer96

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Zoro has a plethora of amps that he can stack on top of each other, and while I personally see a 5x gap as something he should be able to plausibly close, it's not something I can conclusively prove.
Since Kojiro also has pretty decent senses and Precog of his own, that's not even something that Zoro can exploit. And I'm pretty sure Servant Physiology takes care of Fear Hax and Paralysis (correct me if I'm wrong).
So idk, this is looking kinda stompish.
 
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Servant physiology would nullify conqueror's haki and fear stuff yeah

And they also have their own fear aura that works on weaker foes and there's a 5x gap at the start here, which is the same amp that the servants with working fearhax have compared to other servants so A
 
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Comparing Kenbun to Artoria's dogshit instinct is laughable tbh.

Tsubame shouldn't be an issue for Zoro to evade or dodged, Saber did it with a much less impressive form of Precog (Zoro has Kenbun which gives him mind reading and some levels of future sight, whilst also have 2 separate forms of prediction.) and Tsubame works by bending space yes? Zoro is already resistant via Haki.


Zoro has also kept up with various other users with prerogative abilities, such as other Goken users (Ryuma and Denjiro come into mind.) and Kaku who possessed Kenbun Haki (which Zoro lacked at the time. The two were consistently reading each others moves throughout the fight.) so he has plenty of experience in combating those with precog on his level.



What are Sasaki's win cons?
 

MonkeyOfLife

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The Monohoshi Zao, while a finely crafted weapon, is still mundane. This means that it will chip or bend if forced to clash directly against something not made by men, like Saber's Excalibur. Tsubame Gaeshi can only be performed properly if performed on level ground and will become imperfect if the Monohoshi Zao is bent or chipped in combat, leaving gaps through which a swift enough opponent can dodge.

Zoro will definitely find this weakness and utilize on this with armament haki
 
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An approximately 6x AP gap in his favor, though that's without Haki or Ashura taken into consideration. Whether that reasonably clears the gap, I have no idea
Ah I see. What does Sasaki scale to value wise and does he upscale or downscale from it? Zoro has a pretty big boost with Haki and his various other Stat amps, and has Goken and Dragon-Blaze to compensate.

Also is this the Sasaki with the "infinite skill hur"?
 
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Yeah then they should definitely be comparable in terms of skill, hell I'd probably even argue Zoro still holds that advantage in that regard.


Does Sasaki scale above or below 24 Gigatons?
 
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Tsubame shouldn't be an issue for Zoro to evade or dodged, Saber did it with a much less impressive form of Precog (Zoro has Kenbun which gives him mind reading and some levels of future sight, whilst also have 2 separate forms of prediction.) and Tsubame works by bending space yes? Zoro is already resistant via Haki.
Saber is also resistant via multiple layers of resistance and it still worked, not to mention Sasaki has his own Precog.

Also

"much less impressive"

Saber's precog works on causality-altering attacks
What are Sasaki's win cons?
Passive fearhax that bypasses servant resistances, skillstomping into oblivion, a 6x AP gap, Stealth that nullifies ESP and Senses on the level of servants, etc.

The Monohoshi Zao, while a finely crafted weapon, is still mundane. This means that it will chip or bend if forced to clash directly against something not made by men, like Saber's Excalibur. Tsubame Gaeshi can only be performed properly if performed on level ground and will become imperfect if the Monohoshi Zao is bent or chipped in combat, leaving gaps through which a swift enough opponent can dodge.

Zoro will definitely find this weakness and utilize on this with armament haki
Uhhh Last i checked Zoro's weapons are made by men and not Tier 1 divine gods lmao

Yeah then they should definitely be comparable in terms of skill, hell I'd probably even argue Zoro still holds that advantage in that regard.
"Zoro is more skilled than sasaki"

Sasaki reached the level of tier 1 true magic via sheer sword skill, this is fucking laughable
 
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Saber is also resistant via multiple layers of resistance and it still worked, not to mention Sasaki has his own Precog.
Saber's resistance comes from simple Magic iirc, and I don't recall her base resistance being "several layers."
Also

"much less impressive"

Saber's precog works on causality-altering attacks
Which doesn't mean much, any precog depending on it's mechanics would be able to replicate the same thing. Her precog is limited in terms of how consistent it is and how far it can detect, she isn't any Katakuri let alone Yhwach.
Passive fearhax that bypasses servant resistances, skillstomping into oblivion, a 6x AP gap
Gonna ask for citation on that one, I Heavily disagree with base Sasaki skill stomping and a 5x (at most.) isn't a valid reason to vote considering Zoro has countermeasures.
Uhhh Last i checked Zoro's weapons are made by men and not Tier 1 divine gods lmao
When did I say they were tier 1? Miss me with that shit.
"Zoro is more skilled than sasaki"

Sasaki reached the level of tier 1 true magic via sheer sword skill, this is fucking laughable
Again, Base Sasaki is being used here not Infinity Sasaki, so again irrelevant. Really just reading what you want there aren't you bud?
 

MonkeyOfLife

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The Monohoshi Zao, while a finely crafted weapon, is still mundane. This means that it will chip or bend if forced to clash directly against something not made by men, like Saber's Excalibur. Tsubame Gaeshi can only be performed properly if performed on level ground and will become imperfect if the Monohoshi Zao is bent or chipped in combat, leaving gaps through which a swift enough opponent can dodge.

Zoro will definitely find this weakness and utilize on this with armament haki
Haki is not made by men.
 
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No they are not... They are made by supernatural willpower (Haki)
Your own scan debunks your statement. They're normal blades that are infused with haki. At best that gives them the base ability to even hurt Sasaki in the first place, and comparing them to a Low 6-B Divine Construct being wielded by someone who's stronger than Sasaki
Saber's resistance comes from simple Magic iirc, and I don't recall her base resistance being "several layers."
She has A+ rank resistance which is not only resistance but active powernull
Which doesn't mean much, any precog depending on it's mechanics would be able to replicate the same thing. Her precog is limited in terms of how consistent it is and how far it can detect, she isn't any Katakuri let alone Yhwach.
Lmao why are you bringing Yhwach into a one piece vs fate fight, bleach fans are hilarious

And Katakuri has better observation than Zoro anyway so you really don't wanna go down that road.
Haki is not made by men.
Man you're really hung up on this one statement

buddy, Sasaki is over 400 years old, the weapon possesses a shitton of mystery, that statement literally only applies to shit like servant weapons which haki ain't
Gonna ask for citation on that one, I Heavily disagree with base Sasaki skill stomping and a 5x (at most.) isn't a valid reason to vote considering Zoro has countermeasures.
It's on the servant physiology page
When did I say they were tier 1? Miss me with that shit.

Again, Base Sasaki is being used here not Infinity Sasaki, so again irrelevant.
That is Base Sasaki.
 
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She has A+ rank resistance which is not only resistance but active powernull
A+ is irrelevant unless that taps into 4-D resistances, and as far as I'm aware she doesn't. Power null is also irrelevant as I'm not arguing for or against that ability, I'm strictly talking spatial manipulation so lets not change directions.
Lmao why are you bringing Yhwach into a one piece vs fate fight, bleach fans are hilarious
To a share an analogy because you were making it seem like Saber has some sort of omni precog? Also not really sure what me being a Bleach fan (which I hardly get involved with nowadays.) has to do with anything, well aside from you attempting to be condescending. Hmm go on.
And Katakuri has better observation than Zoro anyway so you really don't wanna go down that road.
Doesn't matter, Zoro's level of Kenbun Haki already grants him more than one type of Precog, and Kenbun has excellent growth rates so evolving into FS isn't impossible. My example was mainly to show Zoro's experience in combating those with precog.
It's on the servant physiology page.
No, the scan of Sasaki's fear manipulation isn't there. And by the way, that's not even something he has access to going by his profile. Going by the profile only Infinity Sasaki has fear manipulation.
That is Base Sasaki.
Base Sasaki hasn't reached Infinity nor has he any feats on a tier 1 level.
 
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A+ is irrelevant unless that taps into 4-D resistances, and as far as I'm aware she doesn't. Power null is also irrelevant as I'm not arguing for or against that ability, I'm strictly talking spatial manipulation so lets not change directions.
You're the one that still thinks Tsubame Gaeshi is somehow spatial manipulation.
To a share an analogy because you were making it seem like Saber has some sort of omni precog? Also not really sure what me being a Bleach fan (which I hardly get involved with nowadays.) has to do with anything, well aside from you attempting to be condescending. Hmm go on.
Please point out where I said that Saber had anything of the sorts. Hmm go on.
Doesn't matter, Zoro's level of Kenbun Haki already grants him more than one type of Precog, and Kenbun has excellent growth rates so evolving into FS isn't impossible. My example was mainly to show Zoro's experience in combating those with precog.
Ah of course, famous characters that Zoro has combatted with precog, Yhwach and Katakuri
No, the scan of Sasaki's fear manipulation isn't there. And by the way, that's not even something he has access to going by his profile. Going by the profile only Infinity Sasaki has fear manipulation.
Servant Physiology. All servants have it, Gin. That's why we have it on the physiology page.
Base Sasaki hasn't reached Infinity nor has he any feats on a tier 1 level
That is literally what Tsubame Gaeshi is. Sword skill that reaches the level of True Magic. He doesn't need infinity for that.
 
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Now be so kind as to not quote my posts on here again, dealing with your notifications is a chore, and I haven't figured out how to ignore users on the horrid layout of this forum.
 

MonkeyOfLife

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Does he have all of that?👆 if he does then stomp
If only they did something like this to the Haki Page 😤
 

MonkeyOfLife

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Daz bonez

Durability:
far higher
against cutting and piercing attacks (weapons utilized by marine officers could not even scratch him, and he was even capable of stopping an attack from Dracule Mihawk despite later being cut down [though this may be attributed to Mihawk utilizing Haki to bypass his Devil Fruit functions]).

Stopped a 6-b attack and Zoro did this (Mihawk also has damage boost or could be haki... But looks more like Goken)
 
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Hello~

I'm here hihi

btw, who is more skilled?

also, I don't think that 5x AP gap is enough to kill Zoro, as a far weaker Zoro had no problem to stand alive against an attack that added up all Luffy pain (Luffy is made by Rubber, so, physical damage isnt that much to him, but he even already was knocked out due immense damage and pain) into him, and he stand up conscious and alive, despite that even luffy was knocked out by it, and Luffy is made by rubber
 
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Anyway Zoro should take this, he might have lower AP but can compensate via amps like Asura, Gorrila based attacks and Haki, and Goken, having 3 separate forms of Prediction (2 from skill, one being from the Breath, one being mental imagery, and the last being from Kenbun.) would help him in reacting to Sasaki's attacks, and has experience in fighting against prediction users.


Zoro could also debatably copy Sasaki's attacks as he's been shown to copy unique abilities in the past. Also Zoro has already reached the "pinnacle." of all swordsmanship in One Piece, giving him basically what is a bootleg version of Musashi's "Zero." by entering a state of mind one can reach the pinnacle of Swordsmen ship, in Zoro's case that being Goken.
 

Eminiteable

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As for the AP Gap:

Base Zoro here scales to one-shotting Apoo and his weapon which scale to Hybrid X-Drake who's scaling chain looks like this:
"Hybrid X Drake > Post-Udon Gear Third > Post-WCI Gear Third = Awakening Katakuri > Cracker = Dressrossa Boundman = 4.3 Gigatons"

Zoro on top of that can enhance both his attack potency and durability with armament haki, before acquiring Enma his Busoshoku Haki allowed him to one-shot Killer and destroy his weapon, Killer who was completely equal with Zoro in his base state, and now with Enma it draws out even more of his own Haki than he ever could normally meaning it's a far greater amp than it was before.

With Asura in the pre-timeskip it allowed him to go from getting completely overwhelmed by Yontoryu Hybrid Kaku to reducing his strongest attack to mist and one-shotting him. And in the post-timeskip (this key) he stacks it with his Busoshoku Haki.

He can also further enhance with Goken (which allowed him to one-shot Mr. 1 when previously none of his attacks did any damage) and by enhancing his muscle mass which allowed him to overpower Zoan Kaku, both of which can be stacked with everything else mentioned above.

So he scales far above 4.3 Gigatons in just base and can stack a lot of amps to further make up the difference.
 
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MonkeyOfLife

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Wait HOW IS THIS NOT A STOMP? 🤔
Does he have all of that?👆 if he does then stomp
If only they did something like this to the Haki Page 😤
 

MonkeyOfLife

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Servants don't usually soul rip, not sure if they can absorb people and Zoro can bypass the third was since his swords have mystery via age, curses and Haki.
 

Loyd

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its not a stomp,
skim through it again, the Uses section is really meh for now i guess
Resistances are better but its against hax, zoro with his skill and swords is fine against it.
  • Soul Manipulation: A Servants main sustenance is mana, but they can consume souls to maintain themselves into the world.
pretty sure they don't soul rip.
Absorption: Besides souls, a Servant may rely on consuming the essence of Shadow Servants, who are made of residual magical energy that have coalesced into the form of a fake Servant.
only against a defeated, shadow servant.
his swords are pretty mystical its fine.
 

MonkeyOfLife

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Well Zoro FRA (should be able to one shot and evade alot of attacks with skill and haki while finding and utilizing weaknesses)
 
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To note, Kojiro can fight and damage characters who have more AP than him, actually the normal thing for him is to be several times weaker in the strength aspect against the enemies he fight.

His presence is hard to feel to others servants, and lets remeber servants can feel souls, emotions, power, abstracts beings, all the acausality types (except 5), nonexistent type 2 and possibly even more than I could be forgetting, so let me doubt that Zoro could actually feel him or analysis him.

Kojiro have fight against people with precognition like Saber who is above Mordred who dodged a completely surprise attack from someone with precognition while she was fighting someone else and even made him retreat, can dodge causality attacks and to some extent attacks that work with paralel world hax mechanic. So I highly doubt that the precognition of Zoro would actually be a treat against him.

Regarding skill aspect he is basically above everything else in the verse aside from Musashi and Yagyu, that mean that he is far above characters that can copy styles at first sight (like Izou), characters who can wield anything they encounter for the first time at a level above people who spend all their lives mastering said objet (like Raikou who quite literally picked a random yoyo for the first time and can fight and even surpass other servants who are legendaries heroes), above characters who's skill is of legendary class even though they are under effects of mental interference that make them literally crazy (like Raikou or Lancelot). So I don't think Zoro have a skill advantage.

And servanst can also affect souls with their attacks, not only absorpt them, this is the reason of why they can damage in their fights their spirit origins (souls), a scan for it was added and accepted in a crt of Crim time ago but he forgot to add it to the page.
 
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Anyway would this revision affected this match: https://vsbattles.com/threads/nasuverse-global-hax-revisions.123210/

This is basically the wide nasuverse we're planned for long time
More than the wide revision is a lesser version of the wide revision since the original revisions were supposed to cover many things from the Lostbelts, but since that will be delayed this is good.
Might as well bring the scan to here
I can find the scan of that time with Medusa.

Edit: Here
 
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To note, Kojiro can fight and damage characters who have more AP than him, actually the normal thing for him is to be several times weaker in the strength aspect against the enemies he fight.
Such as?
His presence is hard to feel to others servants, and lets remeber servants can feel souls, emotions, power, abstracts beings, all the acausality types (except 5), nonexistent type 2 and possibly even more than I could be forgetting, so let me doubt that Zoro could actually feel him or analysis him.
I severely doubt all Servants are capable of sensing non existent characters, all acausal types and so on and so forth.
Kojiro have fight against people with precognition like Saber who is above Mordred who dodged a completely surprise attack from someone with precognition while she was fighting someone else and even made him retreat, can dodge causality attacks and to some extent attacks that work with paralel world hax mechanic. So I highly doubt that the precognition of Zoro would actually be a treat against him.
First of all, Mordred doesn't have God tier Precog for being able to dodge surprise attacks from people with Precog. Her precognition isn't spammable nor is it as consistent as Kenbun Haki which is passive.
Regarding skill aspect he is basically above everything else in the verse aside from Musashi and Yagyu, that mean that he is far above characters that can copy styles at first sight (like Izou), characters who can wield anything they encounter for the first time at a level above people who spend all their lives mastering said objet (like Raikou who quite literally picked a random yoyo for the first time and can fight and even surpass other servants who are legendaries heroes), above characters who's skill is of legendary class even though they are under effects of mental interference that make them literally crazy (like Raikou or Lancelot). So I don't think Zoro have a skill advantage.
If you want I can post some scans on Zoro's stuff but I don't see anything that places Sasaki's skill above Zoro's with the examples you've given. Izo is definitely impressive but he's held back in the fact that he doesn't try and from what I remember he doesn't actually "master." the abilities he copies, Zoro can do the same and arguably use them to a greater degree. That's nice in terms of overall skill, I'm however only arguing sword skill, so Raikou is irrelevant. I also really doubt Base Sasaki is >>> Raikou in terms of skill.
And servanst can also affect souls with their attacks, not only absorpt them, this is the reason of why they can damage in their fights their spirit origins (souls), a scan for it was added and accepted in a crt of Crim time ago but he forgot to add it to the page.
I'd need to see the link for that being accepted.
 
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I mean his skill level isn't the same level as Raikou, but i get your point there, the reason i didn't bring skills advantage here is because both Kojiro and Zoro skill are in exact same level, albeit Zoro is a bit higher

I also remember Kojiro was defeated by Musashi so there's that
 
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To note, Kojiro can fight and damage characters who have more AP than him, actually the normal thing for him is to be several times weaker in the strength aspect against the enemies he fight.
That's hardly a factor at all.

Kojiro have fight against people with precognition like Saber who is above Mordred who dodged a completely surprise attack from someone with precognition while she was fighting someone else and even made him retreat, can dodge causality attacks and to some extent attacks that work with paralel world hax mechanic. So I highly doubt that the precognition of Zoro would actually be a treat against him.
0) Zoro has fought more precognition users than Kojiro, in fact precognition is commonplace in the New world and there are people whose precognition is a whole different level than Saber's. Your argument is basically "Kojiro has fought against precognition users, thus he beats Zoro", when Saber's precognition isn't even remotely close to being on the same. Dodging surprise attacks is something even a priest from Skypia and Eneru has done. Even beginning of the Time-skip Luffy could dodge surprise attacks, while thinking about Hancock's lunch.

Regarding skill aspect he is basically above everything else in the verse aside from Musashi and Yagyu, that mean that he is far above characters that can copy styles at first sight (like Izou), characters who can wield anything they encounter for the first time at a level above people who spend all their lives mastering said objet (like Raikou who quite literally picked a random yoyo for the first time and can fight and even surpass other servants who are legendaries heroes), above characters who's skill is of legendary class even though they are under effects of mental interference that make them literally crazy (like Raikou or Lancelot). So I don't think Zoro have a skill advantage
1) "Being above all else" isn't saying much, that might be impressive in his verse, but if you were to compare it to other verses it purely depends on the skill feats.

2) Zoro's two years training consisted of fighting against strong animals, who perfectly imitated Zoro's three swords style after seeing it once. Even Mihawk -- the strongest swordsman in One piece was extremely confident that those monkeys could beat a skilled swordsmaster such as Zoro, to his surprise Zoro defeated all of them while being in his worst state. In other words, Zoro is capable of defeating his own self-developed swords style and techniques, and enemies who can copy styles.

3) "legendaries heroes", nice titles, so what exactly are their best skill feats, because being "legendary" and "god" doesn't always necessarily mean it's a "GG Skill feat". After all, in One piece we have got a crazy guy claiming to be God, who's also worshipped by many people as one.
 
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MonkeyOfLife

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His presence is hard to feel to others servants, and lets remeber servants can feel souls, emotions, power, abstracts beings, all the acausality types (except 5), nonexistent type 2 and possibly even more than I could be forgetting, so let me doubt that Zoro could actually feel him or analysis him.
Obs Haki can sense/see emotions, intentions, How powerful someone is, presence/souls/spiritual energy, the future, invisible things, long distances, X ray vision, enhanced hearing, instinctive Reactions, Precognation that out precogs other precog users and many more... I also feel like obs haki should be able to hide their own presence but thats only anime... For now.
Regarding skill aspect he is basically above everything else in the verse aside from Musashi and Yagyu, that mean that he is far above characters that can copy styles at first sight (like Izou), characters who can wield anything they encounter for the first time at a level above people who spend all their lives mastering said objet (like Raikou who quite literally picked a random yoyo for the first time and can fight and even surpass other servants who are legendaries heroes), above characters who's skill is of legendary class even though they are under effects of mental interference that make them literally crazy (like Raikou or Lancelot). So I don't think Zoro have a skill advantage.
Zoro can copy styles that have been perfected in a supernatural way at first sight and make it even better, able to use no swords style, Mastered his own fight style, able to cut things with pure skill meaning he can cut nothing and everything he wants by using his will on his sword by just remembering what someone told him (he learnt that pre timeskip early on), Makes new perfected techniques on the spot and can win against multiple Animals that copied his techniques and Fighting style perfectly and is able to fight and defeat everyone of them (surpassing himself every fight) and many more like being able to fight in the air, underwater, on weird angles and more
And servanst can also affect souls with their attacks, not only absorpt them, this is the reason of why they can damage in their fights their spirit origins (souls), a scan for it was added and accepted in a crt of Crim time ago but he forgot to add it to the page.
Haki should resist but not accepted yet 😤
 
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Cú, Saber, Heracles, any servant with strength above Rank D is various times stronger than him.
I severely doubt all Servants are capable of sensing non existent characters, all acausal types and so on and so forth.
They can sense nonexistent type 2 beings like Kama, abstract like Kama itself and gods in general like Romulus or abstract that isn't a god like Nobuna Avenger, they can feel acausalities like BB (who have type 1, 2, 3 and 4), Mushashi, and even some of the characters I mentioned in the other parts also have acausality.
First of all, Mordred doesn't have God tier Precog for being able to dodge surprise attacks from people with Precog. Her precognition isn't spammable nor is it as consistent as Kenbun Haki which is passive.
Her instincts in the level of precog let her feel surprise attacks from other character that also have precog like Chirion and win a fight against him, could feel something approaching faster that the systems of Chaldea because of them, how one can spam instincts? Instincts are always active, you can't spam them. The instinct of Artoria are above Mordred and even so she almost lose against Kojiro.
0)Zoro has fought more precognition users than Kojiro, in fact precognition is commonplace in the New world and there are people whose precognition is a whole different level than Saber's. Your argument is basically "Kojiro has fought against precognition users, thus he beats Zoro", when Saber's precognition isn't even remotely close to being on the same. Dodging surprise attacks is something even a priest from Skypia and Eneru has done. Even beginning of the Time-skip Luffy could dodge surprise attacks, while thinking about Hancock's lunch.
I think you have a missunderstanding, the attack Mordred dodged is from someone that see the future, the attack was intented to kill her while she was fighting other servant, and when the two of them fought Chirion needed to retreat.

Even if one want to argument that the precog of Mordred is shit, you also want to argument that Zoro have better precog than Saber even though she can dodge acausality attacks and attacks with paralel worlds haxs mechanic? Because as far I now in One Piece no one reacted to things like that, and again, even though she had that level of precog Kojiro almost defeat her, just lossing because luck.
1) "Being above all else" isn't saying much, that might be impressive in his verse, but if you were to compare it to other verses it purely depends on the skill feats.

2) Zoro's two years training consisted of fighting against strong animals, who perfectly imitated Zoro's three swords style after seeing it once. Even Mihawk -- the strongest swordsman in One piece was extremely confident that those monkeys could beat a skilled swordsmaster such as Zoro, to his surprise Zoro defeated all of them while being in his worst state. In other words, Zoro is capable of defeating his own self-developed swords style and techniques, and enemies who can copy styles.

3) "legendaries heroes", nice titles, so what exactly are their best skill feats, because being "legendary" and "god" doesn't always necessarily mean it's a "GG Skill feat". After all, in One piece we have got a crazy guy claiming to be God, who's also worshipped by many people as one.
1 and 2) In fate with skill alone one can even modify their body to grow other arm and things like that, in the case of Kojiro his skill reached the level of the Second Magic that is a tier 1 magic that have paralel world hax. This Kojiro reach that level with his skill, it just that different to his other two keys in this one he is nerfed and can only make three slashes instead of infinite.
3) Good that in One Piece things are like that, in Fate when someone is called a god they most of the times have various types of haxs and tier 1 things. Regarding the legendary heroes they have feats of fight even though they have their hearts crushed or are wounded to the point of been literally dead, repeal entire armies, defeat monsters feared by entires countries, and more, but well, I can say it to you that the character that can fight with a yoyo even though using it for the first time is above in skill that Red Hare who mastered every martial art even though he have the body of a horse and can perfectly adapt and fight in any enviroment even if is his first time experiencing it.

And in general there are more
That's nice in terms of overall skill, I'm however only arguing sword skill, so Raikou is irrelevant. I also really doubt Base Sasaki is >>> Raikou in terms of skill.
Since Base Sasaki also reach the realm of True Magic he is indeed superior in terms of skill to Raikou.
I'd need to see the link for that being accepted.
There was accepted and no one was against it, it's also something common because a lot of times they affect the spirit origins of others, they can even modify their spirit origin.
Haki should resist but not accepted yet 😤
In fate souls are higher d so I really doubt that it would matter even if haki resist soul attacks.
 

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1 and 2) In fate with skill alone one can even modify their body to grow other arm and things like that
Zoro is able to manipulate his own body as well by manipulating his muscles and stuff... Tho things you listed aren't even skill in swordsmanship or even correlate to it
and can perfectly adapt and fight in any enviroment even if is his first time experiencing it.
Zoro as well... Even against crazy hax devil fruit users and somehow countering it by learning on the spot a technique that's very effective specifically to the opponent he is fighting
Regarding the legendary heroes they have feats of fight even though they have their hearts crushed or are wounded to the point of been literally dead
Zoro many times was supposed to die but somehow survives death everytime by only his supernatural willpower (link, link, link, link, link, link, link, link, link and link) I very much doubt Sasaki will even be able to put this Zoro on the verge of death as in post timeskip he has never fought anyone serious... Also if Sasaki were to somehow put Zoro in the verge of death, Zoro would probably get even Stronger (Reactive Power Level) and make a new technique that specifically works effectively on his opponent
 
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I think you have a missunderstanding, the attack Mordred dodged is from someone that see the future, the attack was intented to kill her while she was fighting other servant, and when the two of them fought Chirion needed to retreat.
"Modred dodged is from someone that see the future, the attack was intended to kill her" not really impressive, considering that Sanji dodged Katakuri's jelly bean that was also intended to kill him, despite the fact that Sanji foresaw getting shot by the priest and not by Katakuri, yet was able to dodge it. It's also important to note that Katakuri has these abilities granted to him; Extrasensory Perception, Telepathy, Precognition, Information Analysis, Enhanced Senses, and Instinctive Reaction. Luffy also dodged several attacks by exact same guy who can see the future for 12 hours. Now you are wondering, why am i bringing up Luffy and Sanji? because it's pretty clear if one or two of the monster trio are capable of performing a similar feat, then Zoro naturally can do the same thing as well, despite his specialization not being Kenbunshoku haki (Zoro had crazy evasion skills and senses before he unlocked Kenbunshoku haki)

Even if one want to argument that the precog of Mordred is shit, you also want to argument that Zoro have better precog than Saber even though she can dodge acausality attacks and attacks with paralel worlds haxs mechanic? Because as far I now in One Piece no one reacted to things like that, and again, even though she had that level of precog Kojiro almost defeat her, just lossing because luck.
First of all, scans please. And secondly Future sight>Precognition, it's inherently better, regarding to my "Modred's precognition" argument her dodging hax-based attacks doesn't automatically make it better, because SHE STILL got hurt by non-haxed abilities and attacks. To me, it sounds like contradictory if you were to claim her precognition is that good, then shouldn't she get hurt by things she easily could have foreseen? and shouldn't she be known for her precognition? if i were to make a comparison between Katakuri and Modred, Katakuri consistently and constantly dodges things and abilities he foresees and counters those accordingly to the point that he's rumored that no opponent ever laid a hand on him, and what's Modred's?

1 and 2) In fate with skill alone one can even modify their body to grow other arm and things like that, in the case of Kojiro his skill reached the level of the Second Magic that is a tier 1 magic that have paralel world hax. This Kojiro reach that level with his skill, it just that different to his other two keys in this one he is nerfed and can only make three slashes instead of infinite.
You are only listing off Haxes and not real Skill feats. Also "can only make three slashes instead of infinite" it's an ability/hax and not "Skill". We are always under the assumption that Haxes doesn't equate to Skills. For examples, Frieza blowing up a planet doesn't make him the most skilled person or Byakuya from Bleach using millions of swords doesn't make him the most skilled person in bleach.

3) Good that in One Piece things are like that, in Fate when someone is called a god they most of the times have various types of haxs and tier 1 things. Regarding the legendary heroes they have feats of fight even though they have their hearts crushed or are wounded to the point of been literally dead, repeal entire armies, defeat monsters feared by entires countries, and more, but well, I can say it to you that the character that can fight with a yoyo even though using it for the first time is above in skill that Red Hare who mastered every martial art even though he have the body of a horse and can perfectly adapt and fight in any enviroment even if is his first time experiencing it.
Again, Haxes doesn't equate to Skills, Haxes and Skills are entirely two different things. Kenshin from Ruruoni Kenshin may be more skilled than most swordsman i know, but his abilites/haxes are weak by comparison. "they have feas of fight even though they have their hearts crushed or wounded to the point been literally dead", you are now confusing "Regen" with "Skill" also a half-dead zoro one-shotted the most dangerous assassin from the west blue and defeated the skilled & strongest fishman from Arlong's crew, despite still suffering from the wound he received from the world strongest swordsman, who's also 20x stronger than him. "Repeal entire armies, defeat monsters feared by entires countries" It's not saying much, the Shishibukai are feared by 10 to 20 million islands, they are also fairly known in the New world (Since that's the purpose of the Shishibukai system to make the pirates fear in tremble) also defeating monsters and people, who are feared by literal countries and islands is something the strawhats do on the daily-basis. Even the likes such as "Krieg" and "Kuro" were feared by the East blue, they even referred to Krieg, as the "Strongest man from the east blue" (Don't get me started with Zoro's reputation as the pirate hunter). Zoro in this key can also adapt in every environment, such as Punk hazard and Drum island.
 

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Pre timeskip Zoro can also fight against opponents who are to fast for him to see and who has precog and wins by only skills and will power without using precog/obs haki...
 
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I think something is needed to make clear because there are some confusion with it, I know this sound weird but in Fate skill alone make things impossible possible and grant haxs to their users, someone with skill enough with the words can brainwash people (like Caesar), someone with skill enough telling stories can alterate reality with their stories (like Scheherazade), someone with skill enough in medicine can reopen old and mistreated wounds with a single movement (like Nightingale). In the case of Kojiro his skill let him reach the realm of the Second True Magic that control parallel worlds.

But well, setting aside the skill part for a bit I would also like to hear counter for Zoro regarding the other things like the presence of Kojiro and so.
Expectro might be voted too based from his arguments
It was pretty clear but anyways Kojiro FRA.
 
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@RazumaHiroki If that's the case everything from Rakudai is considered as haxs than skill by that logic
You are misunderstanding me, not every Hax is a "Skill feat". Nor does most Haxes equate to AP/DC. The things he/she brought up weren't "skill feats" at all, unless you wanna argue that spamming infinite sword slashes is skilled, when there's already an existing definition for it aka that falls under the category "Hax"/"Ability". Allow me to ask you questions, would you think Gilgamesh, who spams his GOB out of boredom skilled? and someone (Let's say a swordsman novice) whose ability allows him "to cut everything".

Now what a real skill feat looks like for example, someone without power, advantages, special bloodlines, etc etc. Beats someone who's a swordsman that’ve 400 years of COC experience.
 
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I will say this real quick this, no
one in one piece has an impressive precog like saber. Like seriously someone who can precog acausal attacks >>>>>>> anything in one piece. Kojiro fighting saber and piping her a while already shows zoro precog is not a factor here and also let me add
Knowledge of Respect and Harmony makes his attacks "unreadable" and prevents his opponents from ever analyzing or getting used to his attacks, Supernatural Luck, Minor Fate Manipulation (Servants with B-rank Luck or higher can change their own fates to evade inevitable outcomes such as having their hearts destroyed by Gáe Bolg)
Kojiro FRA and my reasons
 
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You are misunderstanding me, not every Hax is a "Skill feat". Nor does most Haxes equate to AP/DC. The things he/she brought up weren't "skill feats" at all, unless you wanna argue that spamming infinite sword slashes is skilled, when there's already an existing definition for it aka that falls under the category "Hax"/"Ability". Allow me to ask you questions, would you think Gilgamesh, who spams his GOB out of boredom skilled? and someone (Let's say a swordsman novice) whose ability allows him "to cut everything".

Now what a real skill feat looks like for example, someone without power, advantages, special bloodlines, etc etc. Beats someone who's a swordsman that’ve 400 years of COC experience.
For the novice swordman, yes it counted as skillfull as capable to cut everything can't be achieved by a mere swordmasters, even for someone who trained for a years or more so

Gil is pretty much an outlier tbh since despite not skilled, he's the embodinment of every treasure of entire world

Raikou and Lancelot for the real skill feats, but i need more elaboration on this so don't take it too early as counter aguments
 
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For the novice swordman, yes it counted as skillfull as capable to cut everything can't be achieved by a mere swordmasters, even for someone who trained for a years or more so
i forgot to mention that his "cut through everything" was not something he achieved alone, it's a power given to him or he unlocked it via his special bloodlines. In short, the swordsman novice is haxed, but not very skilled when it comes to swordsmanship. If you remove his "Hax", and let him fight against a skilled swordsman. I think you already know the outcome. The most important thing to remember is, you can remove certain "Haxes", but not "Skills", skills comes from experiences and obstacles one has overcame.
 

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i forgot to mention that his "cut through everything" was not something he achieved alone, it's a power given to him or he unlocked it via his special bloodlines. In short, the swordsman novice is haxed, but not very skilled when it comes to swordsmanship. If you remove his "Hax", and let him fight against a skilled swordsman. I think you already know the outcome. The most important thing to remember is, you can remove certain "Haxes", but not "Skills", skills comes from experiences and obstacles one has overcame.
Can sasaki cut everything?
 
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In other words, most Haxes doesn't come from "Skills". Most Haxes are fundamentally from protagonist, antagonist, deuteragonist, secondary protagonist, etc etc privileges. Special bloodlines, Technologies, Weapons, and being the reincarnation of a literal God, also specific verse mechanics.

A Girl, who's born with the ability to see the future, doesn't make her skilled, she's born with it. Hence why, Haxes normally doesn't equate to Skills, DC or AP.
 

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Zoro also usually starts with speed amp attack with Shi ShiShi SonSon which uses Goken which is damage boost which should one shot which he ain’t dodging even with precog and can also be combined with armament Haki…
4C731461921B634D332200B168289D40A79AF39C

also Zoro can utilize range aswell with multiple aoe slashes that can also be supported by goken + haki… Zoro uses them close range, mid range, long range and when fighting melee he comes in and out with air slashes…
 
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It's better if you make a constructive arguments instead "lul Tsubame Gaeshi gg ez"
I mean the fact that he has a feat of overwhelmed Artoria in a sword fight speak for itself. IIRC in UC he’s fighting againts Herc and will decapitated Heracles if Herc aim for the kill, and also even though he’s not the Saber Kojiro his skill in sword still should’ve relative to him
 
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Zoro also usually starts with speed amp attack with Shi ShiShi SonSon which uses Goken which is damage boost which should one shot which he ain’t dodging even with precog and can also be combined with armament Haki…
Kojiro is able to perceive Musashi using "Zero" which grants infinite speed techniques from what I'm seeing in the profile

Extrasensory Perception (Can perceive Musashi’s use of Zero)

Infinite (Her skills transcend time, space and existence, leading her to a realm of nothingness with no time or space, devoid of thought and feeling, beyond the rift of reality and dreams. In this realm, which is explicitly not a pruned or parallel world, every moment her sword clashes with Kojirou's, infinite possibilities would play out and infinity and zero clash endlessly)

However it does state she goes inside a realm devoid of time and it's listed as extrasensory perception so I won't use it as a definitive argument and wait for knowledgeable members to clear it up.
 
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Dodging Causality attacks isn't impressive in terms of precognition, one doesn't need to have complex mechanics in order to do so. That's the entire point of precognition, to predict whatever is coming next.


Saber's precognition doesn't compare to Kenbun Haki in regards to how far into the future it can view. Not to mention she doesn't even have precognition in a literal sense, her's is a lot more like a Danger Sense.
 

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Sasaki also fought Archer who has mind's eye
Mind's Eye (True): B
This description is from fate complete material:
Capable of calm analysis of battle conditions even when in danger and deduce an appropriate course of action after considering all possibilities to escape from a predicament.

And this is from fgo:
Powers of observation granted from training and practice.
Can calmly assess one's position and an enemy's powers even in a crisis. He possesses a combat logic that can find the only remaining path. If the chance to win exists even at 1%, he can find that chance and make it a reality.
On the surface it is similar to Intuition.
 

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Being able to predict all possible possibilities and find the best possible outcome from those said possibilities sounds better to me
 
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