Roronoa Zoro vs Sasaki Kojiro

[Rez]

Better Skills? nobody has presented any actual skills feats thus so, how can you claim better he's more skilled when nobody ever bothered to refute or debunked why Zoro is likely more skilled than Kojiro.

His intelligence section should tell why he is more skilled

 

[Regidian]

Better Skills? nobody has presented any actual skills feats thus so, how can you claim better he's more skilled when nobody ever bothered to refute or debunked why Zoro is likely more skilled than Kojiro.

Does zoro can make an atk that bend space and time, to make multiple atk in same time ? does zoro can make his atk being unable to be adapted? Sasaki have too way more experience and his way higher is skill that people in fate that do better than zoro

 

[LordGinSama]

His intelligence section should tell why he is more skilled

Zoro's is heavily outdated so comparing them isn't the best idea.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Does zoro can make an atk that bend space and time, to make multiple atk in same time ? does zoro can make his atk being unable to be adapted? Sasaki have too way more experience and his way higher is skill that people in fate that do better than zoro

Again Haxes. And read all arguments before saying the things that has been already presented here.

 

[Rez]

Again Haxes.

Not really hax Sasaki does it via pure skills

 

[Loyd]

Archer is not doing the deduction himself the skill is

Powers of observation granted from training and practice.
Can calmly assess one's position and an enemy's powers even in a crisis. He possesses a combat logic that can find the only remaining path. If the chance to win exists even at 1%, he can find that chance and make it a reality.

is this the description?

 

[Rez]

Zoro's is heavily outdated so comparing them isn't the best idea.

I wasn't talking about intelligence itself the int section for Sasaki has some skills feat listed

 

[RazumaHiroki]

2) Zoro's two years training consisted of fighting against strong animals, who perfectly imitated Zoro's three swords style after seeing it once. Even Mihawk -- the strongest swordsman in One piece was extremely confident that those monkeys could beat a skilled swordsmaster such as Zoro, to his surprise Zoro defeated all of them while being in his worst state. In other words, Zoro is capable of defeating his own self-developed swords style and techniques, and enemies who can copy styles.

Again, Haxes doesn't equate to Skills, Haxes and Skills are entirely two different things. Kenshin from Ruruoni Kenshin may be more skilled than most swordsman i know, but his abilites/haxes are weak by comparison. "they have feas of fight even though they have their hearts crushed or wounded to the point been literally dead", you are now confusing "Regen" with "Skill" also a half-dead zoro one-shotted the most dangerous assassin from the west blue and defeated the skilled & strongest fishman from Arlong's crew, despite still suffering from the wound he received from the world strongest swordsman, who's also 20x stronger than him. "Repeal entire armies, defeat monsters feared by entires countries" It's not saying much, the Shishibukai are feared by 10 to 20 million islands, they are also fairly known in the New world (Since that's the purpose of the Shishibukai system to make the pirates fear in tremble) also defeating monsters and people, who are feared by literal countries and islands is something the strawhats do on the daily-basis. Even the likes such as "Krieg" and "Kuro" were feared by the East blue, they even referred to Krieg, as the "Strongest man from the east blue" (Don't get me started with Zoro's reputation as the pirate hunter). Zoro in this key can also adapt in every environment, such as Punk hazard and Drum island.

 

[Regidian]

Again Haxes. And read all arguments before saying the things that has been already presented here.

Making your atk not being to be adapted is not hax, neither being more skilled that people that have learned every martial skill or people that just instantly learn/copy them perfectly when seeing them

 

[Rez]

Zoro can't adapt to Sasaki's attacks because of Knowledge of Respect and Harmony

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Making your atk not being to be adapted is not hax, neither being more skilled that people that have learned every martial skill or people that just instantly learn/copy them perfectly when seeing them

I wasn't referring to that, i was referring to bending time and space, it's literally hax and physically impossible to cut space and time itself, even via training it's not possible (I'm already aware by this point that the Fate VN doesn't particularly care about physics, etc etc, but when it comes to Skill feats, you need to be able to distinguish between Haxes and actual skill feats)

Except, Zoro defeated multiple enemies who perfectly imitated his swordstyle (he defeated them, not with power or speed, because Zoro at that particular point was heavily weakened from his injuries to even one shot one of the Humandrills), in other words even in his weakened state he quickly developed a counter against his own self-developed swordstyle, defeated skilled samurais from Wano kuni (who devoted their lives to swordsmanship and reached the pinnacle of swordsmanship, those samurais were also feared by the Marine HQ), defeated the most skilled swordsman amongst the CP9, who was also significantly stronger and faster than him the only way Zoro could keep up with Kaku, was with pure skills (Kaku was trained at a young age to be Massacre Weapon, a skilled marine soldier have a doriki of 10, while Kaku's Doriki is 20x bigger, fighting a Rokushiki master is like fighting against 1000 or more men). Zoro prior to the events of Alabasta and beginning of the new world, had already reached the pinnacle of swordsmanship - the breath of all things.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Zoro can't adapt to Sasaki's attacks because of Knowledge of Respect and Harmony

Can you at least try to elaborate more on Kojiro's abilites....

 

[Rez]

Can you at least try to elaborate more on Kojiro's abilites....

You can just read the profile the abilities and intelligence section

 

[John985]

Hax and skill feat go hand in hand in Nasuverse.....

 

[LordGinSama]

******* telling you, Nasu was definitely a mistake.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Someone still has not explained to me how zoro precog is more impressive than someone who can precog casaulty attack? An attack that replace cause for effect and effect for cause, like seriously someone should explain

 

[Loyd]

Someone still has not explained to me how zoro precog is more impressive than someone who can precog casaulty attack? An attack that replace cause for effect and effect for cause, like seriously someone should explain

what casuality attack?

 

[LordGinSama]

Someone still has not explained to me how zoro precog is more impressive than someone who can precog casaulty attack? An attack that replace cause for effect and effect for cause, like seriously someone should explain

Precoging doesn't mean said Precognition is good, that's just being able to view said hax, it doesn't actually speak volumes as to how far it can predict. Anyone with precognition would be able to see a causality based attack, being able to counter is another story.

 

[Rez]

Can you at least try to elaborate more on Kojiro's abilites....

I am just gonna copy paste stuff from his profile

Intelligence: Assassin is a peerless swordsman, having reached a realm transcending the realm of men through nothing but hard work and single-minded dedication. He is stated to have the greatest swordsmanship amongst all of the Servants in the war, far surpassing Berserker, who is more than qualified for the Saber class, and Saber, who is renowned in life for being one of Britain's finest knights. Even The King of Heroes is no match for him in a contest of swordsmanship. Furthermore, he can clash evenly with his chief rival, Musashi Miyamoto, who had also reached the pinnacle of swordsmanship and could collapse all possibilities into a single outcome, with their respective skills being stated to transcend time and space itself. As such, his skill as a swordsman is stated to have reached the state of true emptiness, reaching the unreachable existence of Infinity. Personality-wise he is also serene and calculating, rarely losing his composure and allowing him to easily perceive even the slightest weaknesses in the target with his keen eyesight, even outmatching the similarly perceptive Archer in close combat. He was able to achieve a technique on the level of True Magic, something that many Mage families work for generations just to approach obtaining.

Knowledge of Respect and Harmony: Assassin's techniques cannot be properly perceived by his opponents no matter how many times they're demonstrated. As a result, it is impossible for an opponent to get used to them. Thus the tenth, hundredth, or even thousandth encounter against him will feel the same as the first, so his techniques will always retain their effectiveness against his opponents.

 

[LordGinSama]

You can just read the profile the abilities and intelligence section

Yeah like I said, we still need to do the same for Zoro's intelligence section.

 

[PrinceofPein]

what casuality attack?

Gae bolg

Precoging doesn't mean said Precognition is good, that's just being able to view said hax, it doesn't actually speak volumes as to how far it can predict. Anyone with precognition would be able to see a causality based attack, being able to counter is another story.

Oh you mean the farther the person can see into the future? Well zoro is basic precog in one piece standard it is not that far off then.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Does that answer to your question pain? Anyways, the skill debate has just begun: Fish, outskilled part 1 and outskilled part 2

 

[LordGinSama]

Gae bolg

Oh you mean the father the person can see into the future? Well zoro is basic precog in one piece standard it is not that far off then.

Yeah that's what I meant, Zoro is at least proficient in Kenbun and it evolves.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Does that answer to your question pain? Anyways, the skill debate has just begun: Fish, outskilled part 1 and outskilled part 2

It did, I made a mistake anyway sasaki still has passive limited fate manip, zoro can't overcome that

 

[RazumaHiroki]

It did, I made a mistake anyway sasaki still has passive limited fate manip, zoro can't overcome that

Well, from what i recall from the VN it's hardly a factor at all (the poor guy got the worst luck at certain routes)

 

[Rez]

Does that answer to your question pain? Anyways, the skill debate has just begun: Fish, outskilled part 1 and outskilled part 2

So you just skimmed over the intelligence section for Sasaki

 

[RazumaHiroki]

So you just skimmed over the intelligence section for Sasaki

Eh, i was about to refute this one anyways (i hate how outdated Zoro's profile page is...)

 

[Loyd]

Gae bolg

yea it was a combination of sheer luck and precog, i think someone mentioned it already but yea sabers is more so danger sense bordering precog. im pretty sure haki observation trumps it many times.

and again if the nasu crt pull thru im voting sasaki via being able to one shot with hax if he lands a hit.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

yea it was a combination of sheer luck and precog, i think someone mentioned it already but yea sabers is more so danger sense bordering precog. im pretty sure haki observation trumps it many times.

and again if the nasu crt pull thru im voting sasaki via being able to one shot with hax if he lands a hit.

I mean, Zoro and the others are getting downgraded anyways (thanks to a certain recalculation, i'm enjoying the last days of Island lvl Zoro)

 

[Loyd]

I mean, Zoro and the others are getting downgraded anyways (thanks to a certain recalculation, i'm enjoying the last days of Island lvl Zoro)

wait wano arc tiers are getting downgraded? thats rough

 

[RazumaHiroki]

wait wano arc tiers are getting downgraded? thats rough

Not just wano, dressrosa is affected as well (because a certain person felt the need to recalc the pica calc that put Zoro at island lvl out of spite)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I don't know who to vote for, both sides seem to have good arguments.

 

[Regidian]

If we want to go with "preco" sasaki skill> a guy that do that

As such, a swordsman that has reached Suigetsu is able to read and react to any opponent like water that reflects and mirrors anything. Using this technique, he is capable of accounting for all possible outcomes of a situation, and staying a step ahead of all of them. It is so absolute that Musashi had to create a completely new possibility to manage to bypass this technique.

 

[Rez]

So far Kojiro has

Ap and Dura advantage

Skill advantage:
Through sheer skills reached the realm of true magic and achieved a technique on the level of a noble phantasm


is far superior to Heracles skill wise the same Heracles can use nine lives a technique that makes 9 near-simultaneous consecutive strikes and under FATE system can make 100 strikes in a breath

Is far superior to EMIYA in term of skills. The same EMIYA has copied weapons from several famous heroes (the copied weapons also gives him the skills and memories of the original weilder of the weapons)

Is far superior to Artoria king of knight in terms of skills who is an extremely accomplished swordsman

Can hold his own against characters superior to him with sheer skills

And most important of all can fight evenly with Musashi Miyamoto

Knowledge of Respect and Harmony makes it so his opponent will never get used to his attacks
Ability description
Knowledge of Respect and Harmony: Assassin's techniques cannot be properly perceived by his opponents no matter how many times they're demonstrated. As a result, it is impossible for an opponent to get used to them. Thus the tenth, hundredth, or even thousandth encounter against him will feel the same as the first, so his techniques will always retain their effectiveness against his opponents.

 

[Rez]

If we want to go with "preco" sasaki skill> a guy that do that

As such, a swordsman that has reached Suigetsu is able to read and react to any opponent like water that reflects and mirrors anything. Using this technique, he is capable of accounting for all possible outcomes of a situation, and staying a step ahead of all of them. It is so absolute that Musashi had to create a completely new possibility to manage to bypass this technique.

Before someone says all≠infinite

 

[LordGinSama]

Before someone says all≠infinite

Base Musashi doesn't have that.


None of what you posted above makes Sasaki more skilled than Zoro either, as those feats as left vague (EMIYA's copying from heroes that lack skill feats.) and Zoro's has feats and scaling to match. I also don't see how a new technique is gonna affect Zoro, who's used to facing new techniques right on the spot.

 

[John985]

Servant Musashi have that, she achieve that while alive in Shimousa. When she died in Shimousa, then became a servant in part 2. She still have that.

 

[Rez]

Base Musashi doesn't have that.

It's heavenly eyes she does

 

[Rez]

Through sheer skills reached the realm of true magic and achieved a technique on the level of a noble phantasm


is far superior to Heracles skill wise the same Heracles can use nine lives a technique that makes 9 near-simultaneous consecutive strikes and under FATE system can make 100 strikes in a breath

And most important of all can fight evenly with Musashi Miyamoto

What skill feat zoro has that are better than these

 

[Rez]

Knowledge of Respect and Harmony makes it so his opponent will never get used to his attacks
Ability description
Knowledge of Respect and Harmony: Assassin's techniques cannot be properly perceived by his opponents no matter how many times they're demonstrated. As a result, it is impossible for an opponent to get used to them. Thus the tenth, hundredth, or even thousandth encounter against him will feel the same as the first, so his techniques will always retain their effectiveness against his opponents.

And how is he gonna deal with this, Kojiro's np and his ap advantage