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Return of the most Skilled Thread

FallenMaou2234 said:
So is nobody gonna talk about Ikki Kurogane from Rakudai?? And why is Zoro on the list but Mihawk isn't??? Also

Musashi and Regend Transcended, Space time and Existence via skill with a sword so GG
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Are we really counting that sort of "does hax BS via skill" as a thing here?

Asking cause Ji Ning usurped the will of a higher-dimensional multiverse and became one with it via his sword dao and skill, reaching a point where said sword dao gave birth to all other concepts and contained them all within itself (including all space, time, karma etc).

Granted, I'm off the opinion that these sorts of feats shouldn't really be counted as just skill nut I dunno what the rest think.
 
Regidian said:
Technicaly in fate lb4 karna have train for infinity time.
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Huh, cool.

It doesn't really apply to skill here (neither does Ning's age) but that's interesting to know.

Not even going into how little infinite training time makes sense.
 
I agree with Planck, I don't really think that doing weird supernatural shit totally unrelated to skill should be a skill feat. If you can't explain the mechanics of how combat skill actually plays into the feat, it shouldn't count.
 
Oh yeah.
Raiden but again>Sam>Raiden again>Raiden>=MGS4 Vamp>Solidus>Vamp>Solid 1 Snake>Raiden early game>Young Snake (FoxHound Days)>Venom>a whole group of superhuman bioweapon soldiers called the Skulls who can turn invisible, fade in and out, and explicitly have heightened senses to a realm far, far beyond what's even natural at worst, seeing things in slow motion, of which Venom can straight up skill **** all of them casually, even disarming them and goring them with their own weapons and is able to soundly defeat entire groups of them at once.
Not counting Big Boss or MGS 4 or 2 Snake or Ocelot in that at all.

Tbh probably should've added that, or the whole psionic shit, or the fact they have RPL in Skill beyond just one feat given there's like 4 and even skill **** each other back and forth in the same games.
 
Planck69 said:
In all seriousness though, skill feats should have some coherence if nothing else.

Shaving electrons of off atoms is a precision feat and thus a skill feat.

My spear thrust leading me to omnipotence over a 10-dimensional multiverse isn't.
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I mean......if you're so skilled you literally Transcended Space, time and Existence ,bending the laws of Dimensions using a technique on that's stated to be on the level of True Magic to attack from an Infinite number of parallel possibilities simultaneously all within a single instant via conventional swordsmanship and it was stated In Canon

Then I don't think we can just say "it doesn't count cause its sounds too much like hax and doesn't make sense" just sayin
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
I mean, it's simply a mechanic in the verse and something with no sense
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I mean it's like a sword domain, it's not counted as skill ? It's just that his sword domain who is infinity transcended space/time to let him atk infinite time in same moment.
 
I mean, by that logic, I can also be the best car salesman in America via pure combat skill. I'm so skilled in combat that I can achieve feats in non-equivalent things, which kind of defeats the purpose of specifying combat skill if you're purportedly so skilled you achieve things out of the field specified. There's plenty of times verse statements are disregarded simply because they don't make logical sense and I think it applies here.
 
Planck69 said:
Are we really counting that sort of "does hax BS via skill" as a thing here?

Asking cause Ji Ning usurped the will of a higher-dimensional multiverse and became one with it via his sword dao and skill, reaching a point where said sword dao gave birth to all other concepts and contained them all within itself (including all space, time, karma etc).

Granted, I'm off the opinion that these sorts of feats shouldn't really be counted as just skill nut I dunno what the rest think.
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imo it gets incomparable once you go past the level of "Superhuman skill but still kinda grounded in reality". Like at least there you can reasonably have discussions. But once you get into this "I conceptually destroyed the concept of physics by moving in a fancy way" stuff, then how do you even compare? Like how do you reasonably argue that folding space is a better "skill" feat than deconstructing someone's body via "skill"?

Like it's just hax at that point, the equivalent of if you just took a regular high fantasy series where they do spells and then just slapped on "via skill" at the end of one of the spell descriptions
 
Naitodesu said:
I mean, by that logic, I can also be the best car salesman in America via pure combat skill. I'm so skilled in combat that I can achieve feats in non-equivalent things, which kind of defeats the purpose of specifying combat skill if you're purportedly so skilled you achieve things out of the field specified. There's plenty of times verse statements are disregarded simply because they don't make logical sense and I think it applies here.
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Having you sword atking infinite number of time in same time is in the same field tho. For me it's as logical than being able to cut through electron with a thing that larger than it.
 
Naitodesu said:
I mean, by that logic, I can also be the best car salesman in America via pure combat skill. I'm so skilled in combat that I can achieve feats in non-equivalent things, which kind of defeats the purpose of specifying combat skill if you're purportedly so skilled you achieve things out of the field specified. There's plenty of times verse statements are disregarded simply because they don't make logical sense and I think it applies here.
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I think it doesn't actually, Using his sword technique (which is stated to be "Conventional") he reached a state Transcending Space and Time allowing him to attack Simultaneously from an Infinite number of Parallel possibilities all within a single instant... it's like Ittou Shura where Ikki enters a state of absolute concentration. I think that's within the same field here my guy........it's not like he was stated to be so skilled every single woman across the Infinite Possibilities thay exist fell in love with him (although Regend is an Absolute Chad so i wouldn't blame them kek)
 
The problem with something like Fate is that high levels of Skill always leads to some kind of BS hax via “skill”.
 
I don't care if hax comes as a result of skill, the hax shouldn't be proof of skill itself. It isn't that it's "just hax" but it's hard to measure how much combat skill is needed for something that isn't related to combat at all. Experience, training, fighting feats are all things easy to discern on how good they make a fighter, the water gets muddy when you involve things that slowly start to get less and less skill related and more into ludicrous abilities that can't be logically connected to skill.
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
I mean......if you're so skilled you literally Transcended Space, time and Existence ,bending the laws of Dimensions using a technique on that's stated to be on the level of True Magic to attack from an Infinite number of parallel possibilities simultaneously all within a single instant via conventional swordsmanship and it was stated In Canon

Then I don't think we can just say "it doesn't count cause its sounds too much like hax and doesn't make sense" just sayin
Click to expand...
It's impossible to actually compare to anything in a meaningful way.

If you think you can use the feat, fine. But do so with the knowledge that the "transcend space-time, all reality blah blah" means nothing for the debate and only the actual skill, precision or predictive aspects cam be used.

And honestly, a verse calling it swordplay or conventional for its setting doesn't stop something from not being a skill feat that can be compared or analysed. There's a reason Ning jumping to an omnipresent Low 1-C that controls all concepts and laws via sword skill isn't in the feats I listed.
 
I still think some of the Fate guys like Sasaki have a place here but theres definitely some “muddy mater” in there.
 
Honestly, just use coherent skill feats. When something sounds like it could be written by Suggs, take a step back and think it over again.

Even "constantly improved in skill by training and adapting for 98,977,579,578,546,886,788,446,778, years" is a good one since it tells us about his training, improvement and growth curve. Or even "learnt all sword arts in the multiverse".

"He cut infinity in half" doesn't.
 
I mean, even if it was called skill, this shit is hard as **** to quantify.

Hell, Ji Ning has ridiculous shit done via "Sword play", but we don't use it as skill feat even if the verse treats it as such, because it's hard as **** to know how it compares. It isn't some nice "Oh he can beat 10 people equal to him at once" or "he can dodge a Danmaku without getting hit once"

These at least make sense, but ridiculous feats like infinite possibilities and yadda yadda don't.
 
Planck69 said:
It's impossible to actually compare to anything in a meaningful way.

If you think you can use the feat, fine. But do so with the knowledge that the "transcend space-time, all reality blah blah" means nothing for the debate and only the actual skill, precision or predictive aspects cam be used.

And honestly, a verse calling it swordplay or conventional for its setting doesn't stop something from not being a skill feat that can be compared or analysed. There's a reason Ning jumping to an omnipresent Low 1-C that controls all concepts and laws via sword skill isn't in the feats I listed.
Click to expand...
Again his sword technique allowed him to enter a state wherein he Transcended space and time and by Transcending space and time he could now Simultaneously attack from an Infinite number of parallel possibilities within a single instant

So him Transcending space and time is kinda part of his technique it sounds super Hax sure but if his technique is stated to be conventional (which it is) then I don't think we can just say "it's not relevant to his skill because it sounds unrelated"
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
Again his sword technique allowed him to enter a state wherein he Transcended space and time and by Transcending space and time he could now Simultaneously attack from an Infinite number of parallel possibilities within a single instant

So him Transcending space and time is kinda part of his technique
Click to expand...
Which again, isn't something quantifiable or comparable in any meaningful way. Nobody is denying he did it with "sword skill" but the skill has to be debatable to mean anything here.

Ji Ning fused the concept of fate into his sword via comprehension of his sword techniques and Dao. That's a skill feat in technicality but it's pretty much nonsense when talking about precision, versatility etc. So it isn't used.
 
Hasn't SCP-076 been like training and fighting since like before Time itself? I know he's older then time I swear he had some crazy experience feats due to that.
 
But even if we go without her domain. Musashi have an accelerated development that let her Always evolving in battle even when battle guy that could os her directly or that she was unable to even win in the beginning. Or battle a guy that can have a like a step above you in all possibility. Becoming a a good swordman to mastered her domain in 2 day and defeated the seven master swordman servant which she was weaker and less skillful in the beginning.

She can copy movement and skill she see.

She can fight guy that have different type of precognition. (Can see trough all possibility, sense danger, can see the direct futur).

Well she have many extra sensory thing too bcz servant.

In instant reaction she could instant react to an atk from raikou that was unperceivable by her.

She founded her own swordstyle.

Can see and adapt through technique she have just see.

She more skilled than a guy that had mastered every martial art.

She can fight a guy with a skill that allow him to have him to always be unpredictable and preventing his ennemy to being able to analyse his atk.

she can play and predict every movement of her opponement and predict the battle from thousand of possibility before her domain to infinity after it (mean she know every movement he could ever done at this moment and her accelerated development let her evolve to find a solution to how to win).

Win a guy that have have a skill that let him always strike first and can repell anc counteratk any move.

More skilled and win to a guy that could just see all possible outcome of a situation and have a step ahead in all of them, that can see and cut through quarks.

More skilled than a guy that can copy and master martial art with a glance.

More skilled than a guy that can use perfectly all object as a weapon.

She more skilled than greek soldier that have trained themself for ten thousand years and that some god (disocuri) that an unknow age.

And many other thing but i'm not the best in knowing what can make you skilled or not. (Like for me preco is not a skill)

And if we go by scalling, she absurdely high and with a the bushit of fate it's a great thing. Like a normal skillful tomoe gozen was compared to be worth a thousand soldier when she was alive.
 
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Planck69 said:
Which again, isn't something quantifiable or comparable in any meaningful way. Nobody is denying he did it with "sword skill" but the skill has to be debatable to mean anything here.

Ji Ning fused the concept of fate into his sword via comprehension of his sword techniques and Dao. That's a skill feat in technicality but it's pretty much nonsense when talking about precision, versatility etc. So it isn't used.
Click to expand...
How is it not debatable?? If you're so skilled you can Literally warp Dimensions then surely>>A certain green haired Swordsman with three swords (who might just be the most overrated Swordsman in all of fiction)

Unless you're going to sit there and tell me that Zoro>>>Sasaki and Musashi because their best Feats aren't "Quantifiable" in a meaningful way???
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
How is it not debatable?? If you're so skilled you can Literally warp Dimensions then surely>>A certain green haired Swordsman with three swords (who might just be the most overrated Swordsman in all of fiction)

Unless you're going to sit there and tell me that Zoro>>>Sasaki and Musashi because their best Feats aren't "Quantifiable" in a meaningful way???
Click to expand...
Lets not get fallacious here alright
 
First_Witch said:
Lets not get fallacious here alright
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Hahaha I'm just asking if that's how we're doing things here seeing as how skill feats are being discounted for "not being quantifiable" so I'm just wondering if you would by the standards seemingly set say that Zoro>>Mushashi and Kojiro even though Kojiro can warp Dimensions and Musashi can outright destroy "possibilities" via sword skill???
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
Hahaha I'm just asking if that's how we're doing things here seeing as how skill feats are being discounted for "not being quantifiable" so I'm just wondering if you would by the standards seemingly set say that Zoro>>Mushashi and Kojiro even though Kojiro can warp Dimensions and Musashi can outright destroy "possibilities" via sword skill???
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I mean we can just use their other feat and scalling without that not like it's the only they can do
 
If i have not made myself clear, i will do so now: I have no more authority on this matter than anyone else here. Everyone has their own view on the topic, so the only fair and reasonable thing is to put it up for debate and see what sticks.
 
Regidian said:
I mean we can just use their other feat and scalling without that not like it's the only they can do
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Yeah I know I know, but that fight from Shimousa is without a doubt the best Skill feat for either (although Musashi killing Chaos might also be up there) so I don't know about discounting Feats like that because "They're not quantifiable" doesn't seem fair to me seeing as how again those are their best skill feats
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
Yeah I know I know, but that fight from Shimousa is without a doubt the best Skill feat for either (although Musashi killing Chaos might also be up there) so I don't know about discounting Feats like that because "They're not quantifiable" doesn't seem fair to me seeing as how again those are their best skill feats
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Yeah i know but i can understand why they don't really want to account a feat of destroying every possibility to only one unavoidable or creating an atk that have the infinity possible movement in, in same time being count as a feat.

Like we can just use the feat where she can analyse and predict every possible action her ennemy can do, and then choose the one where she can counter or avoid.
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
How is it not debatable?? If you're so skilled you can Literally warp Dimensions then surely>>A certain green haired Swordsman with three swords (who might just be the most overrated Swordsman in all of fiction)
Click to expand...
Because fundamentally, nothing that's happening with the dimension warping is a quantifiable aspect of skill in anyway. Is there precision involved? A wide plethora of moves? Analytical prediction and instinctive reaction? Rapid growth and learning? Really, anything.

It's hax that performed via swordplay and the like that's somehow called skill. I guess in the context of the setting sure but good luck debating a position with a feat that can't even be debated.
FallenMaou2234 said:
Unless you're going to sit there and tell me that Zoro>>>Sasaki and Musashi because their best Feats aren't "Quantifiable" in a meaningful way???
Click to expand...
If these characters somehow have absolutely no other skill feats beyond the one that looms like it came from chuuni land? Yes. Else, you can compare their proper skill feats and see who's the best.

And honestly, this feels way too specific...
 
Planck69 said:
Because fundamentally, nothing that's happening with the dimension warping is a quantifiable aspect of skill in anyway. Is there precision involved? A wide plethora of moves? Analytical prediction and instinctive reaction? Rapid growth and learning? Really, anything.

It's hax that performed via swordplay and the like that's somehow called skill. I guess in the context of the setting sure but good luck debating a position with a feat that can't even be debated.

If these characters somehow have absolutely no other skill feats beyond the one that looms like it came from chuuni land? Yes. Else, you can compare their proper skill feats and see who's the best.
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I see so Zoro>>Musashi and Sasaki hahahahahahaha that's fine I guess you do you
 
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