Resisting Esdeath's Time Stop

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Per this thread I found out that Esdeath's Time Stop, Makahadoma, is a bit downplayed. It's believed that having cold resistance or passive exerted heat would allow one to resist Esdeath's Time Stop since Tatsumi was able to "adapt to the cold" of the Time Stop and move around in it. Understandable given the wording and lack of full context regarding the feat.

The Feat
The feat in question is Tatsumi resisting Esdeath's Time Stop. Then assuming her quote about Incursio adapting to frozen tundras means that cold resistance allows resistance to her time stop.

Clearing Up the Cold Resistance Misconceptio
For starters, Tyrant (what Incursio originally was before being made into the Teigu Incursio) already had resistance to frozen tundras before it was ever turned into Incursio. Also, Tyrant further evolves per user (Tatsumi being the third known Incursio user of AGK's story and Incursio having existed for a millenia) and it stills continues to amplify itself. This is Second Stage Incursio that resisted Esdeath's Makahadoma, First Stage Incursio was completely susceptile to it despite Tyrant at base being resistant to freezing tundras and having undergone a millenia of evolutions of users causing it to adapt and evolve further.

After this, we must look at Esdeath's exact words. Word for word, Esdeath's states: "Incursio... I'd heard that after it evolves, the armor is strong enough to adapt to a frozen tundra. Even if only for a second he managed to move in this frozen space!"

Esdeath isn't saying that resistance to cold temperatures allows you to resist Makahadoma, she's equating's Tyrant's previous adaption of frozen tundra being comparable to how it adapted to frozen space.

How Does Esdeath's Makahadoma Actually Work?
Well, per Esdeath's own initial words, it works by freeing time and space itself to cause frozen space. It doesn't freeze or cause cold temperatures on the target, it's solely targeting time and space to freeze time.

This is backed up by Takahiro (the author of Akame Ga Kill) in Volume 9's Takahiro Postscript where he has Esdeath explain Makahadoma to Wave. She once agains states it is freezing time and space in order to freeze time.

So Tatsumi had adapted to the frozen time and space. Cold resistance does not help nor would passive heat exertion.

You need actual resistance to time stop in order to resist Esdeath's Makahadoma.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

This is my first CRT. Give me some of your critiques (constructive, not rude) and pointers so I can improve.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

If said heat can affect something as abstract as time and space, which what Esdeath can freezes, the Time stop is useless.

If not, time stop works just fine.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

Does she actually freeze time and space, like ice? In that case this seems to make sense, though I would assume someone who could "heat" spacetime could counter it, or someone with spacetime manipulation on a larger scale.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

If said heat can affect something as abstract as time and space, which what Esdeath can freezes, the Time stop is useless.
If not, time stop works just fine.

Well yeah, I didn't think I'd need to say that, it felt pretty clear. But abstract heat that does affect time and space works.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Does she actually freeze time and space, like ice? In that case this seems to make sense, though I would assume someone who could "heat" spacetime could counter it, or someone with spacetime manipulation on a larger scale.

As Homu has said, yeah if you could heat or affect time and space with fire, you should counter Makahadoma.

And yes, she says she freezes time and space several times and Takahiro iterates on it in the Volume Postscript.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Cold resistance isn't enough to resist her time stop due its mechanic despite mainly came from Ice Manip.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

So this seem fine, but I have a more pressing question (to me at least). Is that an official scan? Cause that's the first time I've seen her ability spelled that way. Usually it's spelled Mahapadma (which sounds better).

 

[Callsign_Castle]

If I were to try rationalizing this (since "freezing" space and time makes no sense to me, not that I disagree with you, and its stated as such), this could also be quantum level matter manipulation.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

If I were to try rationalizing this (since "freezing" space and time makes no sense to me, not that I disagree with you, and its stated as such), this could also be quantum level matter manipulation.

We have a punch that erases Concept and Time stop that works in a place where time itself doesn't exist.

Trust me, freezing space time isn't the craziest things around.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

So this seem fine, but I have a more pressing question (to me at least). Is that an official scan? Cause that's the first time I've seen her ability spelled that way. Usually it's spelled Mahapadma (which sounds better).

Yeah these are official scans. I have all but the final official English volumes. *********** in their translations of Esdeath's Time Stop said that it was pronounced Makahadoma, but they purposefully wrote Mahapadma for simplicity.

If I were to try rationalizing this (since "freezing" space and time makes no sense to me, not that I disagree with you, and its stated as such), this could also be quantum level matter manipulation.

I don't really know much about that at all. I'm just here providing scans and trying to remove the downplay. But if it's somehow an upgrade, then I guess it can be discussed here.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

@Imade It is not really an upgrade since Esdeath time stop (which more like a Psudo time stop to me) is just a regular time stop.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I'd assume so, I had no idea what he was talking about honestly.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

On the matter manipulation page, it states quantum level abilities allow for space-time manipulation.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

But the time stop is based on Ice Manipulation, not Matter Manipulation.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

Nevermind, sorry for derailing.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Seems legit.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I agree. There was a thread similar to this more than a year ago, but it didn't go anywhere.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I agree with this,but i still call it time-freeze thought.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Tbh, it does seem as if she's talking about freezing stuff, but I don't mind either way.

If this is accepted, wouldn't that give Tatsumi limited resistance to time stop?

 

[TriforcePower1]

It would, yes. I'm quite sure it wouldn't even be limited.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I've forgotten a lot about the series, but it says he managed to move for only a second in the original post.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I've forgotten a lot about the series, but it says he managed to move for only a second in the original post.

Stage 1 was affected by the Time Stop. Stage 2 was only able to move for the majority of the Time Stop (to the point that Esdeath couldn't do anything else after Tatsumi was finally affected). There were no usages of it against Stage 3 and 4, but we know that Tyrant Tatsumi was completely immune and moved for the entire duration.

Edit: Given how his adaption works. Stage 2 alone would probably have been completely immune the second time. That's generally how Incursio's adaption is.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Looks perfectly fine to me.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Looks good. I always thought Esdeath's TS was a bit downplayed tbh.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I agree. But I don't think this should really affect any of her matches.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I agree. But I don't think this should really affect any of her matches.

Same tbh, I still think she would have lost that Escanor match since she would use Makahadoma way too late. Her own in-character behavior betrays her.

 

[Wokistan]

Makes sense to me. Now her timestop doesn't have a far more common weakness than just resisting timestop, but as said above her sadism kinda gimps her anyways.

 

[Malikobama1]

I'm a bit late to the party but you already know I agree. Your CRT is perfectly fine btw

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

How do I know when a CRT is finally accepted?

 

[Callsign_Castle]

A lot of people agree, plus an admin, so perhaps it is?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

How do I know when a CRT is finally accepted?

Usually when enough people agree. I'd like to think 5 or 7 people. It helps if a few mods are a part of that 5 or 7.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

So I can add it now then, right?

 

[Malikobama1]

Go for it

 

[Ghostly_Owns]

Does the time freeze have infinite range?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Does the time freeze have infinite range?

I'd assume so, as far as time and space extends since that is what she's freezing to cause the stopped time.

 

[FateAlbane]

Looks good. I always thought Esdeath's TS was a bit downplayed tbh.

/\ This, so I agree too.

 

[Ghostly_Owns]

Does the time freeze have infinite range?

I'd assume so, as far as time and space extends since that is what she's freezing to cause the stopped time.

Kinda feels a bit like a NLF; being able to freeze time on a dimensional level seems a bit OP relative to everything else she can pull off... (universal timefreeze vs at best a planet level gradual freeze)

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Well I wouldn't say dimensional level, I'm just going by the words of how it works. It works by freezing time and space. So whatever is in the extent of that.

 

[No_Might_09]

Um can i challenge this still?