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Request: Make beyonder in his realm "Possibly 1-A"
- Thread starter Quantu
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We're not going to upgrade a character based off something this trivial. We need something to go by, feats, statements, WoG. We also need it to be consistent.
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Re-Opening this, because it actually is based on something.
Primarely, a direct statement .
I would also like to know what evidence is there that the Beyonder is High 1-B only in his realm. He mentions being Infinite-D while impersonating Steve Rogers, and being disconnected from his realm .
And when he and the Molecule-Man clash, we get this statement .
Primarely, a direct statement .
I would also like to know what evidence is there that the Beyonder is High 1-B only in his realm. He mentions being Infinite-D while impersonating Steve Rogers, and being disconnected from his realm .
And when he and the Molecule-Man clash, we get this statement .
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I see. I apologize then.
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- Thread starter
- #5
If you want consistency, make him 1-A.
How is he much different from the Presence who is 1-A? To my knowledge The Presence has been killed right? Or he has places he can't reach disproving his omniscience.
Beyondwr stated that no force can take his life away without his consent. Hyperbole maybe, however there isn't really a full fledged contradiction. Doom stole his power so maybe if he hadn't, beyonders statement could be true
Also, in his realm he is everything there is/was/will be and it can't exist without him as he is the embodiment. To my knowledge, that makes his omniscience above the Presence in his realm.
Throw in the beyonders statements and there is no doubt that true beyonder should be at the very least "Possibly 1-A"
How is he much different from the Presence who is 1-A? To my knowledge The Presence has been killed right? Or he has places he can't reach disproving his omniscience.
Beyondwr stated that no force can take his life away without his consent. Hyperbole maybe, however there isn't really a full fledged contradiction. Doom stole his power so maybe if he hadn't, beyonders statement could be true
Also, in his realm he is everything there is/was/will be and it can't exist without him as he is the embodiment. To my knowledge, that makes his omniscience above the Presence in his realm.
Throw in the beyonders statements and there is no doubt that true beyonder should be at the very least "Possibly 1-A"
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You misunderstand. Being claimed to be Omnipotent is meaningless. Being superior to everything in-verse doesn't make you 1-A.
Beyonder is also not Omniscient. It makes no sense for Omniscience to be tied to a place.
Beyonder is also not Omniscient. It makes no sense for Omniscience to be tied to a place.
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I think Beyonder is High 1-B, and 1-A in Beyond-Realm. I agree with your opinion, but I feel your reasoning is poor and based on assumptions rather than feats.
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He legit states that he is Infinite-Dimensional.
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Well, in the scan linked above, he explicitly stated that his natural state of being within the Beyond Realm has infinite dimensions, as opposed to 3 within the regular Marvel universe.
This strongly contradicts the interpretation that he is beyond time and space altogether, rather than simply beyond the time and space of the regular universe (and multiverse).
He is rated as High 1-C outside of his realm due to the statement of possessing only millions of times more energy than the entire multiverse combined. At this point in its development, Marvel had not defined the number of dimensions within their Multiverse (later on, the highest known number was set to 16), so we had to assume that it was 11 at this point, the same number of dimensions as our own.
That said, it is possible that we should strictly rate him as High 1-B, and skip the "outside of his realm" key.
This strongly contradicts the interpretation that he is beyond time and space altogether, rather than simply beyond the time and space of the regular universe (and multiverse).
He is rated as High 1-C outside of his realm due to the statement of possessing only millions of times more energy than the entire multiverse combined. At this point in its development, Marvel had not defined the number of dimensions within their Multiverse (later on, the highest known number was set to 16), so we had to assume that it was 11 at this point, the same number of dimensions as our own.
That said, it is possible that we should strictly rate him as High 1-B, and skip the "outside of his realm" key.
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i argree with Ant
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My thoughts would be High 1-B normally, Possibly 1-A in his Realm. Perhaps a more thought-out discussion could be made.
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Well, we have talked about this previously, and the problem is that the statement about being High 1-B within his realm was very explicit, and as such strongly contradicts all other interpretations.
What could be an issue is if we should ignore the "millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse combined" statement, and remove the High 1-C key?
What could be an issue is if we should ignore the "millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse combined" statement, and remove the High 1-C key?
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I think we should leave the profile as is, then.
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No. Because his clash with Molecule-Man was mention to be affecting every dimension and plane of existence.
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- Thread starter
- #26
i believe we should ignore the "millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse combined" statement, and remove the High 1-C. This is because if we are too use that statement, then we would have to use all the others too, making beyonder omnipotent, which he isnt. so i suggest just making him a high 1-B. close thread?
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Beyond Realm was called a different multiverse.
That is, the main Multiverse and the Beyond Realm are likely the objects of the same order, even if it has a large quantitative difference. It would be pretty strange if the Beyond Realm was endlessly in an infinite degree larger than the Multiverse.
That is, the main Multiverse and the Beyond Realm are likely the objects of the same order, even if it has a large quantitative difference. It would be pretty strange if the Beyond Realm was endlessly in an infinite degree larger than the Multiverse.
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DarkLK makes sense. High 1-B outside his realm, 1-A within his realm seems plausible. However, if he was truly infinite dimensional, wouldn't that be contradicted by his fight with Molecule Man? On top of that, if he was infinite-dimensional, how did he interact with the other characters, including regular people? I've only read Secret Wars II once so forgive me if I'm missing something.
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"On top of that, if he was infinite-dimensional, how did he interact with the other characters, including regular people."
Convenience of narrative? That's a pretty flimsy reason when it happens all the time in fiction.
Convenience of narrative? That's a pretty flimsy reason when it happens all the time in fiction.
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