Yes, but from what I recall, the scan that we currently use is from post-Flashpoint, and I also recall that the explanation during the Byrne run did not list sharp objects as a magical weakness of the Kryptonite variety. It just used bad physics to explain that it is easier to cut anybody with less force than by injuring them through punching.
Okay? Doesn't really change that the scan Mav posted is very much from Post-Crisis, and Diana being vulnerable to piercing weapons is consistently a thing in Post-Crisis (scan is from Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #152).
I don’t think it’s a far fetched assumption, but it’s still an assumption with no evidence.
The regular humans in Marvel Comics are not shown to be anywhere near as disparate as you seem to suggest here. In fact women are usually shown to be more powerful in relation to men than they are in the real world. Hence why the "not significantly" wording was used in our page.
Okay. That seems reasonable then.
Eh, reasoning and precedent is as good of evidence as anything else. For instance, if they introduce a new Flash, a new Kryptonian, a new Green Lantern, we don't need to see them directly contrasted against other Flashes/Kryptonians/GLs to conclude that this new character is likely in the same general ballpark as the others.
Well, the Byrne run tried to explain it, but not as a magical weakness. Wonder Woman had simply been powered up a lot over the years, but her original incarnation blocked bullets with her bracelets, so the writers did not entirely logically keep up in that regard.
Okay, but the aim here should be to improve on our examples, not to dismantle a very necessary page that explains extremely valid, explicitly stated, and proven points.
Yes, and given that Marvel tends to follow a feminist path of making women and men more evenly physically powerful than in the real world nowadays that makes our point even more valid.
Uh, yeah, we absolutely do? If a new Green Lantern gets introduced, we wouldn’t assume they’re comparable to, say, John Stewart or Guy Gardener without them actually having showings to suggest as much.
When have regular men and women in Marvel Comics ever been displayed as inherently astronomically separated in terms of physical power? It is up to you to prove that they are rather than the reverse given that your hypothesis is much more farfetched, and it seems silly to continue to focus so much on this particular part of our discussion.
Quite frankly, it doesn’t matter. You’re still making a claim with no actual evidence to support it, and having that on the page weakens its credibility (among the other things that already do that, like no scans).
Why not? I'm not saying they would be the same tier or indexed as such on the site, but yeah it's a pretty safe bet. Assuming normal humans are more or less of normal human strength is not a bizarre evidence-less assumption. We can extrapolate with information other than direct comparison.
It is perfectly reasonable to keep the mention of Aunt May (a fit somewhat elderly regular woman) not being extremely weaker than Jameson, who is a just slightly younger somewhat elderly regular man. They do not need to have a Mortal Kombat style slugfest for that interpretation to be valid, so I think that you are making a hen out of a feather here.
If you acknowledge that we wouldn’t index them as such on the site, then why are you arguing in favor of leaving this example on the site?
Because the point being made is sound and that level of specificity isn't needed for a page that serves to demonstrate the general concept.
I never made the claim that there’s a hundred times difference between men and women, hell, I never made a comparison between men and women to begin with. I would greatly appreciate it if you didn’t strawman my point, thank you.
Her original writer also had her be threatened by bullets. With Hippolyta directly telling Diana the weapons of man can harm her.
They aren't, they're saying the examples we do have don't work and it should be changed to those that do. No one is saying to get rid of the page.
You are making a massive uproar over a very trivial and fully legitimate detail, and I am not strawmanning your argument, I am trying to explain why what you are saying doesn't make sense given that "not significantly weaker" means a rather wide range going by our wiki's standards.
Yes, but my point was that she was much less powerful back then.
Well, we preferably need to collaborate to find replacements for those scaling chain positions in that case.
Huh, my apologies, I don't know how that happened. I fixed the link in the original message, but to make it easier to follow I'll repost it here as well.
I would disagree based off what I noted of the "fight" being completely off-screen and the cosmology lacking any balance at the time.
Sure, though atm I'm not sure what's staying and what isn't. Once we've decided what can be axed, I could assist in getting citations/scans set up for existing examples or new ones.
Except it would as I mentioned I think it's unlikely the Flashes were going at top speed, as Ivy doesn't really have that good control over her victim's powers, as shown with her controlling Superman. That and they're possessed.
Not really, but it's showcased that she accidentally killed Batman using Superman's body because she didn't know how to hold back his power.
They were moving fast enough to generate speed force electricity.
I mean they always do that when they run so I don't see how that's relevant.
Thank you. That seems reasonable then.
The Black Panther somehow physically overpowered a cosmic entity. Anything beyond that seems like a rationalisation to me.
Thank you very much for your help.
Wonder Woman's "weakness" is just a dumb plot convention, but I agree about Dormammu.
Even if they were going at 1/10th speed it would be far beyond ridiculous.
Tapping into the speed force means completely ignoring all relativistic limitations if I remember correctly.
No. It's not like Speedsters go like MFTL+ against street tiers, usually so, they're speeds are around like Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic when facing regular street tiers
They're not always moving at FTL speeds
Their inhibitions were off here.
Well, I don't think that it seems reasonable to try to rationalise this particular inconsistency.
I already explained my reasons above as to why I don't think poison Ivy could make them move that fast
Difference is that Superman has to actively try to hold back, and Speedster have to actively try to get faster. Speedsters rely on their own mindset to become faster.
