Ren Fuji vs Shirou Emiya

[Kamigaeri]

Ren Fuji vs Shirou Emiya


Round 1: Overture Ren vs Fate Route Shirou

Round 2: Scherzo Ren vs Unlimited Blade Works Shiro

Round 3: Finale Ren vs Heavens Feel Shiro


Edit: All Rounds Speed Equalized

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

well...here is the issue round 1 Ren would instantly blitz shirou (you also didn't equalize speed as ren is FTL while shirou is only having MHS reactions but even then shirou fate route can only use avalon to hide as his best bet so he doesn't die cause once that's out ren's boost will end shirou)

Round 2 Schrezo makes Ren intangible which is a problem since Shirou can't hit pure lightning even if ren doesn't have his EFO or EFF he can dodge shirou's attacks well and likely will end him first before shirou can figure out to use things like gae bolg (equalize speed otherwise ren blitzes)

Round 3 This is worst as Ren in this state is to bloodlusted he will send blades at shirou's neck instantly and he can boost speed while slow down shirou so he can't react at all (equalize speed again but the scenario will be the same)

 

[Kamigaeri]

Okay, I equalized their speed.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

even then the scenario i listed will not change Round 1 will allow him to blitz the moment he activates EFO tbh

Round 2 again lightning manipulation and intangibility from beatrice's relic will let Ren dodge and well...shirou needs to realize he needs anti regen blades which will likely not work on a guy who cannot be touched properly (intagibility negation like cain)

Round 3 is the worst match up for shirou as he would be in stagnation the moment ren uses EFF and ren would instantly try to waste shirou as soon as Ren sees him and shirou can't dodge ren's speed boost and lowering shirou's speed

 

[Kamigaeri]

I see, so it's a stomp match in favor of Ren

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I mean i can try to suggest a way to make this less than a stomp and decisive instead using schrezo it's special abilities are moot (killing the dead) but i think with either heaven's feel or UBW can work idk you ask rep to help on which route shirou can fight on par (at least more decisive) against a schrezo ren

rep = https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:Reppuza

 

[Schnee_One]

If standard Ren Fuji vs Gilgamesh was considered fair with a ton of back and forth arguing, I don't see Shirou having a chance

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

^

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Only viable match is the round with Scherzo, as Ren's main form of power is basically ineffective against Shirou

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

isn't schrezo similar to beatrice's lightining shit as he can shot lightning and amp speed?

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Turning into lightning is Beatrice's Briah. Ren's craving in Scherzo doesn't even have anything to do with it. The blade by itself only shoot magical lightning, it doesn't turn its wielder into lightning. And Scherzo doesn't boost speed, it kills the dead without any discrimination

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

so it gives ren a range ability basically?

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Yes, but it isn't effective here. Only relevant thing he got is magical lightning

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I mean, let's not forget that the lightning does soul damage and conceptual damage.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I think then using fate or heaven's feel will be more fair but heaven's feel seems better to do

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

• Only soul damage.

 

[Dat_Dot]

I always want to create Ren vs Shirou thread, but pretty sure its stomp on Ren's favor.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Mind me, I thought that the characters did conceptual damage based on Machina being able to end concepts with his Briah.

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

And how in the hell does Machina's Briah is relevant here and thus considered a reason to slap conceptual damage to literally every single cast when Briah itself is specific for each Apostle ? Unless someone want to say every Apostle can now use soul corroding poison gas based on Cain being capable of doing so with his Briah

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

No, I was just confused. ;-; I've already said I was wrong and apologised, what more do you want?

 

[LordGinSama]

Should have done Yusa vs Shirou instead

I'd make it but I think it's a stomp?

 

[Peter1129]

Wouldn't the match be better with Miyuverse Shirou? He's pretty much a composite Fate/Stay Night Shirou with higher durability.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

does that shirou have gae bolg and such?

 

[Peter1129]

Pretty sure that Shirou has everything but Excalibur. Since he was never shown using it. Even though I'm pretty sure he can spam the hell out of it during the war due to infinite mana from Miyu. But he is no longer connected to the Holy Grail so his mana should be normal now. Here's his profile. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Shirou_Emiya_(Fate/kaleid)

 

[SchroKatze]

How can Shirou stop Low-Godly Regen? And how in the hell he can react to intant acceleration?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

he doesn't have infinite mana from what i see only that its limited and actually pretty low so while UBW can give him an advantage Ren will likely do everything to dodge and from what i see could outlast its limit

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

@schro we are likely going to use schrezo and Gae bolg will negate regen for ren's but the issue is that unlike gil Shirou would have to guess and won't know the guy has THAT potent of a regen

 

[Peter1129]

Well he used to when he soloed the Fifth Holy Grail War due to connections with Miyu but not anymore.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

well since its not anymore than his mana is limited anyway so...

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

actually how long will it last with shirou's limited mana? And how strong is Miyu shirou's mind of eye comparing to his mainstream counterpart?

 

[CGKanzaki]

Been lurking here for a while now, so I thought I'd chime in. Didn't Ren did "over a thousand hits" with Beatrice's relic? Which means even with Scherzo, Shirou would have issues with Ren's speed?

https://imgur.com/a/PkbGc


Edit: I didn't saw the "speed equalized" edit. Anyways, does the Briah stat boost still applies? Since I remember seeing an image with Ren's speed being pretty high while using Scherzo.

 

[Peter1129]

actually how long will it last with shirou's limited mana? And how strong is Miyu shirou's mind of eye comparing to his mainstream counterpart?

This Shirou has never used UBW without getting mana from Miyu. He tried to cast it again but couldn't due to the injuries he had previously sustained from soloing the Holy Grail War and getting tortured by the Ainsworth for a few months. He installed the Archer card and retained all his abilities so I'm pretty sure his mind of eye is just as good as Archer's.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

it shouldn't truly effect the briah like with EFO the speed boost is still activated and i don't remember his briah amping speed so well tbh

@peter how long is the chant and does it have to be a standstill? Cause unlike gil ren is a CQC fighter so he would immediatedly try to stop the chant assuming its shirou's briah and such

 

[CGKanzaki]

Yeah, I was referring to Ren's state from Yetzirah and Briah. There's a speed boost difference between both which makes me think that your stats are boosted when you get from one stage to another not just for Atziluth but also for Yetzirah to Briah. Though the only thing I remember seeing about his Briah amping his speed is when they were referring to how he got a "big boost in power" when he used his Briah against Reinhard in Kei's route.

https://imgur.com/a/uoYKh

 

[ALRF]

I don't think Schrezo gave Ren any speed boost from what i remember (Correct me i'm wrong).

The only thing that's worthy about Schrezo is countering the non-living being (Dead/Immortals) hence why it's a counter to Reinhard Einherjar.

Considering Shirou is damn well alive, Schrezo won't do much apart from Physical + Spiritual damage like the usual Holy Relic does.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

but then which route shirou would be fair and decisive

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

It didn't. Scherzo main schtick is killing the dead, not amping speed. The thousand slices statement isn't as solid as the one with Finale vs Schreiber or Marie route against Reinhard (told by narrator from a third person perspective). And he wasn't sure himself since he said "like a thousand hit", for all we know it might be less or more. And there's no given timeframe either.

Sudden leap of power refer to how he was powerless after he lost Marie but gain another form of power again in the form of new craving and Beatrice's sword rather than stat boost.

 

[CGKanzaki]

The only "source" I could find that has Scherzo boost Ren's speed would be from a fanbook I think? His "Agility" stat is higher than his Yetzirah with the Guillotine, but lower than Overture and Finale.

https://m.imgur.com/a/QSpmZ

Not sure if this is a good source or not, but skimming through those scenes again, it doesn't really say anything about Ren's speed going faster.

Anyways, I think Fate Shirou might be the fairest. Scherzo Ren don't have much feats, and I think UBW Shirou might be a problem for him due to lacking speed feats he'd have from Overture/Finale, so swordspamming would be a big issue. As for HF Shirou, I'm not really sure about. On one hand, Shirou can't project as much as UBW Shirou, but on the other hand, I don't think Ren can dodge NLBW if HF Shirou can pull it off.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

that shows ren is faster than yetzirah but that's it...UBW tbf has a limited mana cost so it depends if Ren can outlast but without the knowledge of that overpowered regen he may not use gae bolg like he should have done

 

[ZERO7772]

Ren can accelerate his speed thousands of times how can equalized speed match be fair for him unless the opponents don't have had to make up for that ?