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This went from debating about the Characters to arguing on why Sword =/= Win
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Rematch: Ichigo Kurosaki vs Natsu Dragneel
- Thread starter Homu_Sweet_Homu
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Not really
In fiction the amount it takes to do serious damage between a blade and a sword is far smaller, in some cases, such as the situation with Winter Soldier, brunt force can actually do more damage
In fiction the amount it takes to do serious damage between a blade and a sword is far smaller, in some cases, such as the situation with Winter Soldier, brunt force can actually do more damage
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@Demon
Why being a Brawler makes you harder to defeat than a professional swordsman? Ichigo fought a Brawler and this was Zaraki, literally this Ichigo stomped God Aizen and Transcendental Aizen, which has Illusion Creation, Invisibility, Clairempathy, Soul Manipulation, Reactive Evolution, Gravity Manipulation and Low-Godly Regenerationn and this Aizen is much more versatile and Hax than Natsu 7DF and even so, Post-Dangai Ichigo without using all its power stomped Transcendental Aizen and one-shot God Aizen with Mugetsu and the same would not have survived without Hogyoku granting Low-Godly Regenerationn.
Why being a Brawler makes you harder to defeat than a professional swordsman? Ichigo fought a Brawler and this was Zaraki, literally this Ichigo stomped God Aizen and Transcendental Aizen, which has Illusion Creation, Invisibility, Clairempathy, Soul Manipulation, Reactive Evolution, Gravity Manipulation and Low-Godly Regenerationn and this Aizen is much more versatile and Hax than Natsu 7DF and even so, Post-Dangai Ichigo without using all its power stomped Transcendental Aizen and one-shot God Aizen with Mugetsu and the same would not have survived without Hogyoku granting Low-Godly Regenerationn.
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@Demon
Well, at least no one went so far as to insult one another.
Well, at least no one went so far as to insult one another.
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Aizen didn't use any of it tho except Low-Godly and Reactive Evo and Mugetsu is all his power, if he uses it he completely loses themEnryu The Red Tower said:
Also one using his bare hands and the other being a Swordsmen affects nothing really
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Is anyone by any chance counting our votes for Natsu and Ichigo?
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@Enryu
<Zaraki
<Brawler
Do you actually know what Brawler means?
@Konaguna
I didn't say it did either, but punching to hurt requires Equal and sometimes less force in fiction
<Zaraki
<Brawler
Do you actually know what Brawler means?
@Konaguna
I didn't say it did either, but punching to hurt requires Equal and sometimes less force in fiction
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Aizen didn't use any of it tho except Low-Godly and Reactive Evo and Mugetsu is all his power, if he uses it he completely uses loses them
Also one using his bare hands and the other being a Swordsmen affect nothing really
Well, even if Ichigo stuck to character with more Hax and versatility and higher AP than 7DF Natsu and who would not have survived Mugetsu without Low-Godly Regenerationn, then if 7DF Natsu is hit by Mugetsu I'm sure he will not survive, that was the point I wanted to point out about Demon's comment.
Just wanted to comment on why being a Brawler with bare hands would be more difficult to face than a professional swordsman.
Also one using his bare hands and the other being a Swordsmen affect nothing really
Well, even if Ichigo stuck to character with more Hax and versatility and higher AP than 7DF Natsu and who would not have survived Mugetsu without Low-Godly Regenerationn, then if 7DF Natsu is hit by Mugetsu I'm sure he will not survive, that was the point I wanted to point out about Demon's comment.
Just wanted to comment on why being a Brawler with bare hands would be more difficult to face than a professional swordsman.
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Just wanted to comment on why being a Brawler with bare hands would be more difficult to face than a professional swordsman.
I wonder also. I'd rather face a brawler than a swordsman any day of the week.
I wonder also. I'd rather face a brawler than a swordsman any day of the week.
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Do not blame me, I only saw up to the Soul Society Arc I just learned of the climax of the Arc battle against the Arrancars and Aizen, so after the Soul Society Arc I do not have much knowledge, so sorry if I said something meaningless.Gargoyle One said:
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Kenpachi is ruthless, but he's far from a brawler.
But, I should bail
But, I should bail
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Don't forget, Ichigo curbstomps and later vaporize God Aizen who is stronger than Shikai Kenpachi who is vaporize the Gremmy's meteor in a single strike and also tanked point blank explosion from six clones of Gremmy and even when weakened, Gremmy still couldn't handle Kenpachi's power.
And Ichigo tanked all of Aizen's attack like it's nothing.
About range, Mugetsu also has a pretty good AOE since it's almost as big as the crater created by Fraggor, Hundreds of meters with the spammable shock waves from his sword with just casually swinging his sword, so the range shouldn't matter much since both has good AOE so they can counter each other's ranged attack.
Ichigo has mobility advantage with both flight and shunpo, Ichigo also has good ESP here since he can sense Aizen teleporting behind him and reacted to it, so hitting Ichigo in melee gonna be hard.
Ichigo also need lot of CRT since his profile missing so many things. Soul damage and destruction is nothing new to Ichigo as he himself a soul who took damage on almost every fight. Shinigami can attack souls, Quincy can destroy them, so Ichigo has resistance to soul destruction and damage.
Also, how is Seven Flame Natsu > Post RoT Human Acno? He himself stated he can't end it on his own.
And he has outside help in that fight. Which can't make him able to counter Natsu. And thus, he lose. So I don't see Seven Flames Natsu is stronger than Post RoT Human Acno.
So it's more like:
Mugetsu Ichigo >>> Dangai Ichigo > Monster Aizen >>>> Butterfly Aizen >>>>> Transcendent Aizen >>= Shikai Kenpachi without eyepatch > Shikai Kenpachi with eyepatch > Gremmy = 56 petatons.
Post RoT Dragon Acno > Post RoT Human Acno > Seven Flame Natsu > Pre RoT Dragon Acno = The Pentadrakes >= Weakened Igneel >The Natsu who beats FH Zeref >FH Zeref > Dragonification Natsu > King Animus = 24 Petatons.
See the difference in AP?
Not to mention Natsu is on a time limit here and a very short one at that. And even without it Ichigo has the endurance, stamina and the pain tolerance over Natsu. So if it turns into a battle of attrition, Natsu is screwed.
Also, Natsu being a brawler doesn't matter since Ichigo is a brawler even before he's become a swordsman, not to mention he also trained karate since he was a child. Not to mention again the foes he fought has hundreds of years worth experience and training.
And the reason why he has difficulty with dealing with Grimmjow is, in their first fight Ichigo trying to hold back his hollow's influence so he's weaker then he should be. And in their final fight it's his skin, Hierro. Ichigo hit Grimmjow so many times with his sword and only to found out the hierro is hard enough to block his sword. Something that Natsu doesn't have here.
And Ichigo tanked all of Aizen's attack like it's nothing.
About range, Mugetsu also has a pretty good AOE since it's almost as big as the crater created by Fraggor, Hundreds of meters with the spammable shock waves from his sword with just casually swinging his sword, so the range shouldn't matter much since both has good AOE so they can counter each other's ranged attack.
Ichigo has mobility advantage with both flight and shunpo, Ichigo also has good ESP here since he can sense Aizen teleporting behind him and reacted to it, so hitting Ichigo in melee gonna be hard.
Ichigo also need lot of CRT since his profile missing so many things. Soul damage and destruction is nothing new to Ichigo as he himself a soul who took damage on almost every fight. Shinigami can attack souls, Quincy can destroy them, so Ichigo has resistance to soul destruction and damage.
Also, how is Seven Flame Natsu > Post RoT Human Acno? He himself stated he can't end it on his own.
And he has outside help in that fight. Which can't make him able to counter Natsu. And thus, he lose. So I don't see Seven Flames Natsu is stronger than Post RoT Human Acno.
So it's more like:
Mugetsu Ichigo >>> Dangai Ichigo > Monster Aizen >>>> Butterfly Aizen >>>>> Transcendent Aizen >>= Shikai Kenpachi without eyepatch > Shikai Kenpachi with eyepatch > Gremmy = 56 petatons.
Post RoT Dragon Acno > Post RoT Human Acno > Seven Flame Natsu > Pre RoT Dragon Acno = The Pentadrakes >= Weakened Igneel >The Natsu who beats FH Zeref >FH Zeref > Dragonification Natsu > King Animus = 24 Petatons.
See the difference in AP?
Not to mention Natsu is on a time limit here and a very short one at that. And even without it Ichigo has the endurance, stamina and the pain tolerance over Natsu. So if it turns into a battle of attrition, Natsu is screwed.
Also, Natsu being a brawler doesn't matter since Ichigo is a brawler even before he's become a swordsman, not to mention he also trained karate since he was a child. Not to mention again the foes he fought has hundreds of years worth experience and training.
And the reason why he has difficulty with dealing with Grimmjow is, in their first fight Ichigo trying to hold back his hollow's influence so he's weaker then he should be. And in their final fight it's his skin, Hierro. Ichigo hit Grimmjow so many times with his sword and only to found out the hierro is hard enough to block his sword. Something that Natsu doesn't have here.
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Natsu doesn't have a time limit in the form, He put all his magic into his last attack
Also the immobilization on Human Acno was temporary as he then tried to block and got hit anyway
Furthermore we can't really scale how much stronger Butterfly Aizen is to Post Chrysalis Aizen when all he did was chase Tatsuki and Co. and then got Korose GG'd by Gin
That said what does Ichigo in isn't Natsu's AP but his Magic, due to having the Slayers magic, he can use their Properties as well so he doesn't have to worry about a specific one
Also the immobilization on Human Acno was temporary as he then tried to block and got hit anyway
Furthermore we can't really scale how much stronger Butterfly Aizen is to Post Chrysalis Aizen when all he did was chase Tatsuki and Co. and then got Korose GG'd by Gin
That said what does Ichigo in isn't Natsu's AP but his Magic, due to having the Slayers magic, he can use their Properties as well so he doesn't have to worry about a specific one
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Yes, we can because it is said that every time Aizen "transcends" (or goes through an evolutionary stage as I can tell) it gets stronger, so yes, we can scale Transcendent Aizen by being much more powerful than Post-Chrysalis Aizen.Hst master said:
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>Furthermore we can't really scale how much stronger Butterfly Aizen is to Post Chrysalis Aizen when all he did was chase Tatsuki and Co. and then got Korose GG'd by Gin.
I mean, Aizen destroyed a beings that eve soul society can't do anythng to it. And he destroyed it by just staring at it.
So he has good feat to make him above shinigami like Kenpachi.And that's not even his God form. Imagine what he can do in this form.
>Natsu doesn't have a time limit in the form, He put all his magic into his last attack Also the immobilization on Human Acno was temporary as he then tried to block and got hit anyway.
The point is Acno > Natsu as Natsu need to charged his attack and he can only do that because Acno was immobile and even after he free himself, he can't counter it because he lost one arm.
>That said what does Ichigo in isn't Natsu's AP but his Magic, due to having the Slayers magic, he can use their Properties as well so he doesn't have to worry about a specific one.
Sorry, but I don't understand this since Natsu won't be immune nor eat Ichigo's attack because Ichigo doesn't use any elemental attack .
I mean, Aizen destroyed a beings that eve soul society can't do anythng to it. And he destroyed it by just staring at it.
So he has good feat to make him above shinigami like Kenpachi.And that's not even his God form. Imagine what he can do in this form.
>Natsu doesn't have a time limit in the form, He put all his magic into his last attack Also the immobilization on Human Acno was temporary as he then tried to block and got hit anyway.
The point is Acno > Natsu as Natsu need to charged his attack and he can only do that because Acno was immobile and even after he free himself, he can't counter it because he lost one arm.
>That said what does Ichigo in isn't Natsu's AP but his Magic, due to having the Slayers magic, he can use their Properties as well so he doesn't have to worry about a specific one.
Sorry, but I don't understand this since Natsu won't be immune nor eat Ichigo's attack because Ichigo doesn't use any elemental attack .
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This thread felt like it was going somewhere in the start with the comparison of abilities and AP, then it derailed into swords and brawlers... I'm lost again. What are the points for both sides?
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Lmao, this was beautiful.Dat Dot said:So yeah, that makes Dangai Ichigo above 896 Petatons.
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Yes, we can because it is said that every time Aizen "transcends" (or goes through an evolutionary stage as I can tell) it gets stronger, so yes, we can scale Transcendent Aizen by being much more powerful than Post-Chrysalis Aizen.
I never said he didn't get stronger, just that we can't scale how much whether it's just a significant increase or curbstomping the preivous evolution
I never said he didn't get stronger, just that we can't scale how much whether it's just a significant increase or curbstomping the preivous evolution
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@Dot
What I mean is the abilities of each respective Dragon
-Erik's Poison
-Wendy's Air
-Rouge's Shadows
-Sting's Light
-Laxus's Lightning
-Gajeel's Iron
And the ability to eat each
What will be doing the most is the Poison, Air, and Lightning
Poison Dragon Slayer Magic has been stated to be able to Decay whatever it touches and if it is breathed will impede the targets movements and Subsequently kill them
With Sky Dragon Slayer Magic he can eat the air to refill on magic
And Lightning Dragon Slayer magic has been shown to paralyze the target (Inconsistent however)
@Imade
The argument for Ichigo are ap advantage from higher scaling, shunpo and Mugetsu, the argument for Natsu is Versatility and scaling to prevent him from getting washed immediately.
What I mean is the abilities of each respective Dragon
-Erik's Poison
-Wendy's Air
-Rouge's Shadows
-Sting's Light
-Laxus's Lightning
-Gajeel's Iron
And the ability to eat each
What will be doing the most is the Poison, Air, and Lightning
Poison Dragon Slayer Magic has been stated to be able to Decay whatever it touches and if it is breathed will impede the targets movements and Subsequently kill them
With Sky Dragon Slayer Magic he can eat the air to refill on magic
And Lightning Dragon Slayer magic has been shown to paralyze the target (Inconsistent however)
@Imade
The argument for Ichigo are ap advantage from higher scaling, shunpo and Mugetsu, the argument for Natsu is Versatility and scaling to prevent him from getting washed immediately.
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>I believe it's Natsu via versatility, including soul damage, rage power, poisons and such.
>Ichigo via AP, resistance to soul damage, mobiity and speed I guess.
>scaling to prevent him from getting washed immediately.
I will vote Ichigo based off Dat Dot and HST master's explanations. It would appear Ichigo's better AP, speed and resistance give him more than an edge to trump Natsu.
>Ichigo via AP, resistance to soul damage, mobiity and speed I guess.
>scaling to prevent him from getting washed immediately.
I will vote Ichigo based off Dat Dot and HST master's explanations. It would appear Ichigo's better AP, speed and resistance give him more than an edge to trump Natsu.
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IMO, Mugetsu is a game changing here.
Ichigo can spam shunpo and flight to avoid most of Natsu's attack long enough to survive and the fact he can react to someone teleporting behind him is a good feat on how he can dodge the near point blank surprise attacks. And he can always spam the shock wave by just swinging his sword.
And he will deffinitely use mugetsu in case if he think natsu is starting to get the upper hand due to versatility. Mugetsu is used all of Ichigo's AP into one strike so he oneshot, like he oneshot Aizen.
Also, in final battle against Acno he never use other special moves of dragon slayer. He just use it to fused the elements.
Ichigo can spam shunpo and flight to avoid most of Natsu's attack long enough to survive and the fact he can react to someone teleporting behind him is a good feat on how he can dodge the near point blank surprise attacks. And he can always spam the shock wave by just swinging his sword.
And he will deffinitely use mugetsu in case if he think natsu is starting to get the upper hand due to versatility. Mugetsu is used all of Ichigo's AP into one strike so he oneshot, like he oneshot Aizen.
Also, in final battle against Acno he never use other special moves of dragon slayer. He just use it to fused the elements.
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Alright, Finally found the vote count
Natsu: 3 (DemonGodMitchAubin, DragonEmperor23, Hst Master)
Ichigo: 4 (Dat Dot, IMadeThisOn8-1-2017, Konaguna, Enryu the Red Tower)
It's still very close
Natsu: 3 (DemonGodMitchAubin, DragonEmperor23, Hst Master)
Ichigo: 4 (Dat Dot, IMadeThisOn8-1-2017, Konaguna, Enryu the Red Tower)
It's still very close
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Ichigo FRA.
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Ichigo FRA
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Votes
Natsu: 3 (DemonGodMitchAubin, DragonEmperor23, Hst Master)
Ichigo: 6 (Dat Dot, IMadeThisOn8-1-2017, Konaguna, Enryu the Red Tower, Xanxussama1010, Sigurd Snake in The Eye)
One more, and Ichigo Takes it
Natsu: 3 (DemonGodMitchAubin, DragonEmperor23, Hst Master)
Ichigo: 6 (Dat Dot, IMadeThisOn8-1-2017, Konaguna, Enryu the Red Tower, Xanxussama1010, Sigurd Snake in The Eye)
One more, and Ichigo Takes it
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Ichigo takes this pretty easily.
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Wait, cant Natsu absorb Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho? He can also burn attacks away.
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Yeah, he can either eat the getsuga or is able to burn it away.
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Natsu doesn't have to use the special moves, the dragonslayers abilities are in the attacks so Cobras poison would be there.
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Then Ichigo would have to go melee. If Natsu absorbs an attack can he use it forever? And would it be on the level of the original?
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Absorbing an attack gives him a power up and the special properties of the attack are added to his own abilities. The power up is dependent comparing on how strong the attack is since Natsu eating the elements of some 6-C's gave him enough power to oneshot a high 6-A.
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