Relooking at Mario's stats

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Well, I think it would also good to note that we only see one star from the constellation anyway

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I also would like to note that most of the speed feats referenced only happened in SMG too

 

[QuasiYuri]

King Boo's Dark Moon feat should be legit. I agree with the removal of others.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

The thing is that the Paintbrush has creation as an ability and the NPCs and level design state/show that goop directly flowed from one of the secret entrances.

An NPC also tried to enter one in a completely seperate mission and fell into paint and went nowhere. If the paint was simply a portal he wouldn't have been able to resurface to recount his actions.

With them being referred to as other worlds and many hints in the game implying so I feel like it would be the natural assumption that they were created by him. But I can see how it may be iffy.

That's all I'll add to this. But Mario should still stay where he is anyways.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Mario should only be toilet level since he's a plumber tbh

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

King Boo's Dark Moon feat should be legit. I agree with the removal of others.

I'm not sure if I can support since Luigi by the time of Luigi's Mansion 2 lives in a more contemporary home than a mansion, he might as well have gotten the tent ending in Luigi's Mansion 1

 

[ElixirBlue]

I'm not sure if I can support since Luigi by the time of Luigi's Mansion 2 lives in a more contemporary home than a mansion, he might as well have gotten the tent ending in Luigi's Mansion 1

But he didn’t get a tent.

You even linked proof in this very thread that Egad built Luigi a house, not a mansion, in the Luigi’s Mansion 3Ds port. Using the money collected from the Mansion spawned by King Boo.

In Dark Moon, we see Luigi living in a house different than the house him and Mario shared in the RPG games, Paper Mario included.

 

[Andytrenom]

I don't see Ryu's point about Shadow Mario creating the bonus stages being debunked so I support removing that

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Wait why were we talking about if Luigi got a house or not? Leave the green man alone he already has enough problems.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

It’s whether or not the money King Boo had was real. Although another reason could be that he already had all of the money before, he is a King after all

 

[ElixirBlue]

It’s whether or not the money King Boo had was real. Although another reason could be that he already had all of the money before, he is a King after all

Well, yeah, at that point tho would be headcanon. There’s nothing to imply that the Boos transported treasure into a temporary mansion that was supposed to be a trap for Mario and Luigi.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

King Boo is clearly just really good at tax evasion and money laundering, of course.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

And I was only linking it to only that one ending with the tent

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I'm just wondering where Ryu is? He might not want to miss out

 

[ElixirBlue]

On what?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Just everything that has transpired since yesterday

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that Ryukama seems to make sense, but would prefer to get input from @Dino_Ranger_Black .

 

[Thelastmlg]

Wait, super mario 64 has 4-A feats?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Wait, super mario 64 has 4-A feats?

Yeah Power Stars create the worlds Mario travels in one of them is noted by Wiggler to have an entire night sky

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Antvasima can Mario's page be opened so when we can come to a conclusion it is ready to edit?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I’ll ask Dino to give an opinion here.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I'm still going to respond.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

In all honesty, Bowser Jr's feat should be removed from his page. I always find the argument of it sketchy. My main gripe with it is the lack of a direct confirmation. We keep seeing statements that it's a world but never about who created it or how. I think the claim that Bowser Jr created because it looks painted is rather weak because we had painted levels in the franchise before such as Painted Swampland in New Super Mario Bros U.

Ask for the tier itself, its fine for the most part. It's just the Shadow Mario parts that never been right for me.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I would agree with Dino here, Bowser Jr. feat is too vague. I think King Boo may stay tho.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I also would like to note that most of the speed feats referenced only happened in SMG too

Mario actually has other MFTL+ feats he can scale to outside the SMG titles

• The Koopa Clown Car flying from the Earth to the Sun in a short time span
• The Millennium Star flying from the center of the universe to Earth in seconds, and Mario keeping up with it
• The Koopa Clown Car keeping up with the Mini Stars as they were flying across an interstellar distance

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Alright I will be typing up my response.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Mario actually has other MFTL+ feats he can scale to outside the SMG titles

• The Koopa Clown Car flying from the Earth to the Sun in a short time span
• The Millennium Star flying from the center of the universe to Earth in seconds, and Mario keeping up with it
• The Koopa Clown Car keeping up with the Mini Stars as they were flying across an interstellar distance

I don't think the Koopa Clown Car should be used because that's the speed of the car, not the driver. And for the Millennium, that's basically travel speed, not reaction speed, and besides it might as well be an outlier since it only happened in a game that was not exactly in the mainline series, and it hasn't been referenced in any other games after that.

And I know about the statement of "Mario and company are like a troupe of actors", but that might mostly imply for when Mario is facing off Bowser; not anywhere else

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I think this theory might be interesting to look into:

 

[DatOneWeeb]

So these bosses are 4-A because they were made out of big chunks of paint instead of little puddles? So how powerful these creations are (and whether or not they scale to the 4-A creation feat) depends on "how much paint" it's made out of. But how do we even know "how much paint" was used to create the bonus stages when you can't even show a cutscene of it actually happening? So in other words you don't really have actual proof of these enemies being 4-A. Because according to you their power depends on how much paint they're made of but you don't even know how much paint was used for the 4-A feat to begin with. So how do we know that this "big chunk of paint" is enough to create entire solar systems?

Okay so you realize that the paint enemies were the supporting arguments not the main reason for scaling? Because I myself literally state:

Not only did you ignore the section where I state Junior uses the brush itself as a weapon, but your argument if needing feats to actually scale is stupid.

My main point is that Junior himself uses the Magic Paintbrush as a weapon. That's his method of harming Mario. He also uses it as a weapon again in Junior's Journey. So can you actually address Junior using it as an actual weapon, because you seem to focus on just the enemies themselves.

But I'm done with these points. If you want to claim a feat occurred, you need to actually prove it. No one else has to prove the feat didn't happen. You claimed the feat happened, so you need to prove it. You can either do that through

1. Showing a cutscene where we can see Shadow Mario creating these solar systems.

2. Showing a statement that explicitly says Shadow Mario created these solar systems.

Until you can do either one of those, there is no feat and there is no argument. I'm not going to continue going in circles talking about different looking portals or whether or not this creation feat scales to AP. Actually prove the feat happened. There is no point humoring a claim with no actual evidence.

Okay Ryu, do you know what context clues are? Because you realize not everything needs to be 100% blatantly in your face, that's what context clues are for. Because saying Bowser Junior only made a portal to these worlds (which is your argument) is the bigger assumption. Once again, we will go over the details.

- The secret levels contain paint near the entrances, specifically at episode 6. Talking to the Pianta before that episode, he states, "This
is the Cliff Spring Cave". So the cave was very much normal before Shadow Mario came. So we already must know Shadow Mario is related to it just from that alone.

- In every single special level, Shadow Mario pops up, meaning he just somehow knows when Mario is going to arrive.

- "A pathway to another world has opened above our fair land". I bring this up again as supporting evidence that Junior did make these stages. As the secret levels prior to Junior doing something reveals they do not have anything.

- The levels themselves have train tracks on the background. And you know Junior has that involves those? Bowser Jr. Playroom, surrounded in a train track. And this is actually related to Mario Sunshine and not some random straw grasp, as the mini-game that takes place INSIDE there has you using the magic paintbrush itself. Meaning Junior is 100% associated with those train tracks in the background. So unless Junior has insane range, he would have had to create said backgrounds containing said stars.

So all of this suggests Junior made them over them being simple portals. The have paint, Junior is always in the level, the backgrounds have train tracks which are later related in a level that involves the paintbrush itself. And now I will discuss the general argument.

- Junior did not make these levels. Rather, he created a portal that leads you there just like every other level.

So I will bring back the prior points, because yes Ryu, you cannot ignore them. These are very much important.

We already know Shadow Mario creates portals to different locations that he didn't create. So when we see a portal to these bonus stages, the simplest explanation is that he also created a portal to this other world. Not that he created the entire worlds themselves offscreen without it ever being mentioned. There being paint near the portals doesn't automatically mean he created the worlds that the portals lead to. "A pathway to another world has been opened" is not stating that Shadow Mario created this world, rather further supporting my claim that he opened a portal (aka pathway) to it.

In (almost) every level, you go inside an M-shaped portal to go through each level. Now, occam's razor would go on your side if these entrances weren't so different. Again:

• The portals are M-shaped, and they dissolve you when entering. Mario also floats a bit.
• The secret levels display Mario simply falling.

Why do they look and act so different? Your argument of "oh, he just simply made a different portal" makes less sense. Why? Why would he need to make a portal that functions differently? Why can't he use any other standard portal? Why are the several entrances just M-shaped, but the secret levels are just holes? It legit makes no sense why he would just decide to make a different portal just for those types of levels. And it's not like he just makes them after making every M-shaped portal. So please Ryu, explain why that would be the case. Making the assumption he just made a different functioning portal for the hell of it makes little sense. The large goop of paint is there this was done via the brush. It also makes no sense that Junior would create a portal that leads too... someplace? It can't be space, I don't recall seeing train tracks in space. It isn't anywhere near Delfino Plaza. And that's ignoring the supporting evidence listed above. It's a bigger assumption he made a different working portal overall.

I think the claim that Bowser Jr created because it looks painted is rather weak because we had painted levels in the franchise before such as Painted Swampland in New Super Mario Bros U.

I am very unsure what New Soup Wii U has to do with this. You say, " because we had painted levels in the franchise before", but New Soup Wii U came out an entire decade after Sunshine.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I don't think the Koopa Clown Car should be used because that's the speed of the car, not the driver.

Mario has displayed being able to dodge and keep up the Clown Car several times before, so he scales.

And for the Millennium, that's basically travel speed, not reaction speed, and besides it might as well be an outlier since it only happened in a game that was not exactly in the mainline series, and it hasn't been referenced in any other games after that.

Mario Party is allowed, unless it contradicts the series itself. The Mario Party series has been referenced in other games. Plus Miyamoto says yes when he was asked if it's always the same Mario.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I think this theory might be interesting to look into:

Its just a theory. Yes, Peach is suspicious but nothing we can really use for VS matches.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I mean I was gonna add/remove some stuff from Peach someday.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Okay, those might be valid but the MFTL+ feats happened when the Clown Car was used for traveling, not combat. This is like asking what the speed of the Millennium Falcon is? It can go MFTL+ in hyperspace but it can't go that speed outside of that instance.

Besides, no one in either click is really traveling anywhere near SoL

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Okay, those might be valid but the MFTL+ feats happened when the Clown Car was used for traveling, not combat.

It is used for combat, several of the boss battles has weapons added to it. Plus, since Mario can react and run from it when it's flying, this means Mario scales.

This is like asking what the speed of the Millennium Falcon is? It can go MFTL+ in hyperspace but it can't go that speed outside of that instance.

There's no reason why it's speed would decrease out of nowhere, Mario consistently reacts to the Clown Car.

Besides, no one in either click is really traveling anywhere near SoL

Gameplay mechanics, any character that is super faster is never actually displayed to do so in-game. Kirby looks slow in gameplay only, Sonic doesn't seem to run at FTL speeds (if you were to calc it), etc. It's all done for the sake of us being able to actually see it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

• The Koopa Clown Car flying from the Earth to the Sun in a short time span

That doesn't scale to anyone tho.

• The Millennium Star flying from the center of the universe to Earth in seconds, and Mario keeping up with it

It's literally stated to have "Fallen" from the sky.

• The Koopa Clown Car keeping up with the Mini Stars as they were flying across an interstellar distance

They're not doing that.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

That doesn't scale to anyone tho.

Enter: The scans I just posted

It's literally stated to have "Fallen" from the sky.

I agree with you on that one. I prefer using the feat prior where we see the star just straight up fly there.

They're not doing that.

Yes.

Gonna go ahead and take a shower.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Enter: The scans I just posted

Clown Car isn't moving at that kind of speed in any of those scenes so it's irrelevant.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Clown Car isn't moving at that kind of speed in any of those scenes so it's irrelevant.

Don't tell Kirby fans this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Don't tell Kirby fans this.

I will.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

You fool, you won't survive!