Reinhard Heydrich vs Altair (Re:Creators)

[TISSG7Redgrave]

is holopsicon ninth the plot shit or something? (she has number movements that i'm losing track)

4 is more like they became seperate from reinhard as a different kind of einherjar so even if he attacks the copy nothing will happen to him...his original became a part of him and we sort of established his existence can't be copied so its likely to be cheap rip-offs

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

9th is the one that erases the plot to erase the person. It's practically identical to MVS that "ends the story", and MVS can damage/kill Reinhard

And I can get the scans showing Reinhard being hurt by his own Einherjar.

And we didn't establish anything. We should be ignoring the Apoptosis thing, seeing as Reinhard needs to awaken to his status as one, at which point he hits 1-A anyway

 

[Peter1129]

Third Movement is Character Description changing a form of Plot Manipulation.

Ninth Movement is Plot Existence Erasure.

Thirteenth Movement is Power Up Removal another form of Plot Manipulation.

Fourteenth Movement is Passive Causality Manipulation.

Twentieth Movement is Perfect Copy Creation.

Twenty-Third Movement is Fate Manipulation.

Sixty-Sixth Movement is Existence Possession.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Monarch ik that i've seen it but copying einherjar is like copying reinhard which altair can't tbh because while ignoring apoptosis thing he is still one we are just ignoring what can keep him alive but not on who reinhard is hence why copying i feel will be moot and einherjar for her AT BEST will be cheap ripoffs

 

[Android_Seventeen]

Nazis battle continues for another 13 centuries tommorow we'll be in the 14th century and the only nation that surrendered is the meme nation

 

[Peter1129]

So umm anybody else want to vote?

 

[ALRF]

Just gonna say that Einherjar are incarnations of the Reinhard himself, and this is the reason Longinus bends out of its way against them.

i'm failing to see how she can make perfect copies of the Einherjar.

About the Causality reverse attack, i fail to see how she can react to it considering it will instantly hit the target since it bypass the concept of distance and eve if we say she can use it, Longinus will not hit him as it will bends out of its way to not hit him, like his incarnations (Einherjar).

Plot Manipulation will affect Reinhard is something that am not sure, considering his power is due to his stock of souls and Gladsheimr which exists outside of Eigou Kaiki World due to it being it's singularity.

 

[Peter1129]

@ALRF

To answer your question Altair making perfect copies of her target is a point that's been brought up many times. So after a while we decided to assume she can make perfect copies of said target that's not as strong as the original. For example if the target is 6-A she can probably make multiple Low 7-C version.

Her Vicissitude of Fortune is passive causality reversing it doesn't require activation.

Also apparently somebody made a new thread and said Altair might also have probability manipulation so there's also that.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

passive to what extent? via her own perception or something?

Pray tell how that probability manipulation works?

Also making perfect copies despite being weaker doesn't work if the person's existence is completely stemmed from the 1-A guy and while we nulled immortality we don't null on how reinhard exists as there can't be two apotosis of the snake at all only one and while he can only kill the snake if he awakens I'm arguing on the fact that she can't make a perfect apoptosis copy will be literally pointless tbh and it won't be the same "reinhard" anyway

 

[ALRF]

@Peter

By meant perfect copies i mean as in their nature as incarnation of the Golden Beast himself

 

[Peter1129]

passive to what extent? via her own perception or something?

Pray tell how that probability manipulation works?

Not sure but from what I've seen in the series she didn't seem to make any gestures or anything when Aliceteria stabbed her and got the damage reversed at herself. Than she proceeded to try and punch Altair but killed herself instead.

Well that's if she gets it. But the reason for her possibly getting probability manipulation is that she was able to find an exit within infinite space as well as finding a possibility within Sirius who has a blank personality and possess her.

Now I kinda wish her physical damage immunity thing went through too bad it was considered NLF.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

but idk if the passive can help with instant distance meh i'll let experts roll with it

Hmmm idk how that really applies

Also no one truly addressed the spear looking while she is far above 10-B she can't look at spear cause no resistence to soul and mind hax so....

 

[ALRF]

And Peter, look at my comment above

 

[Peter1129]

@Redgrave Oh right the spear thing. Was there any feats of the spear affecting somebody in the tier 7 range when they look at it or was it just normal humans that were affected.

@ALRF I'm really not sure how that works. All I've seen is Altair can make a copy of her target with all their abilities.

 

[ALRF]

Ren Fuji was affected by it IIRC.

Reinhard mere glance can make people shit themselves and his voice alone can mindfuck.

 

[ALRF]

>I'm really not sure how that works. All I've seen is Altair can make a copy of her target with all their abilities.

Then the argument of making perfect copies shouldn't be used unless others have some sort of solid arguments to counter it.

 

[Peter1129]

@ALRF I'm saying I'm not sure how this Golden Beast Thing works. Also she has been shown to make a copy of Gigas Machina with all its abilities doesn't that count as a perfect copy?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i mean she can regen but it will constantly hurt her even with regen she will feel pain like a lot of it and...if she doesn't move he will just say **** it lol but again i wonder if infinite attack speed can take on passive causality redirect eh

edit @peter those are totally two different sample though and reinhard's nature as an apoptosis makes him the only one allowed to destroy merc and while we restrict immortality that doesn't mean we restrict on how reinhard exists as one

 

[ALRF]

...I don't mean the abilities, i mean their nature as incarnation of the Golden Beast.

One of Monarch arguments is using Self-Destructive impulse which is about making these Einherjar and hurting him, see the problem is, unless you show me someway that she can make them alongside their special nature then i can agree on with the idea

 

[Peter1129]

@Redgrave I'm just asking but what does that have to do with her making copies of Reinhard or his legion? I really don't understand how this can stop her from making copies with their abilities even if they aren't perfect. Also why are we arguing about copying again? Wasn't it agreed on that this ability wasn't really useful for her in this match?

@ALRF oh so that's what you meant.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

yeah its like what ALRFY said tbh though again passive causality redirect vs instant spear attack is basically now my question but even if redirect it will miss reinhard so yeah

 

[Peter1129]

yeah its like what ALRFY said tbh though again passive causality redirect vs instant spear attack is basically now my question but even if redirect it will miss reinhard so yeah

Wait is it the spear no matter what will always miss Reinhard or is there a possibility it might hit Reinhard? Cause if she gets Probability Manipulation that might help since she seems to be able to make things that only happens 1 out of infinity times or something happen. You know finding a single exit within infinite space.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

no it will never miss its target or hit reinhard in the slightest as it will dodge its master better than gohan dodging nappa's beam

 

[ALRF]

The spear will bend out of its way to not hit it's wielder, that's it, no possibility or anything like that, it just how it works.

Edit: Got Ninja'd by Reddo ;-;

 

[Peter1129]

Ehh alright than. Well so right now what were the ways Altair could win again other than Outline Origin.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

even with outline origin reinhard still has spear so...he will notice and launch it because he felt like giving a present for doing something like that to him AFAIK. Maybe 9th movement but that's hard because machina is similar but he stated himself its slim

 

[Peter1129]

But the argument that I brought up last time was how would Reinhard notice she has this ability? Since she could secretly just save this till when there's an opening mid battle and just use it. Or she could just set up paralysis at the same time she uses Outline Origin.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

well don't forget spear looking is already fatally hurting while regen will work she will not like the pain also how does outline origin apply as in a blast or something?

 

[Peter1129]

A dome that expands pretty quickly. Here's the video start at around 2:50.

https://ww3.*********.io/recreators-episode-20

Also about the spear constantly hurting her does Passive Causality also reflect that or no?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

no besides its not an attack its just there as passive too...and if its a dome hmmm idk still the spear does have convinient infinite distance strike so there is that though idk if causality passive can react as spear is instant you get hit it leaves rein's hands like i said (only reason in main game not IKABEY it isn't is because swastikas were not fully open)

 

[Peter1129]

So uhh votes? Or are you going to wait until an expert comes and explain the infinite distance spear vs passive causality before voting?

 

[ALRF]

I'm not voting, only explaining and pointing out some stuff

 

[Peter1129]

Ok than

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

can you show me how passive is that redirect?

 

[Peter1129]

I'd say just start at around 11:00. The other part happens at around 12:30 or something.

https://ww3.*********.io/recreators-episode-19

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

it seems she has to say it first then it active which she won't have time one the spear is launched but its also possible its based on her perspective as she the attacks were coming the spear you see it coming = already dead really

 

[Peter1129]

I'm pretty sure she was actually explaining the ability like typical villains since currently there's an audience watching the whole battle. And she needed acceptance so she can become Low 2-C.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

what do you even mean? And like i said the second time the attack was like coming and she can see it while lance you don't see it coming really unless you have infinite reaction speed in which case she doesn't

 

[Peter1129]

Ehh I guess the show really doesn't explain her abilities that clearly. So I'm not really sure if she needs to see the attack.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

alright i'll give my vote to kemono-dono as she can't get pass getting passively soul and mind rekt i mean reinhard has the spear in hand always. Kicking him out of the story may result in him just using glasheirm to come back due to its dislocation from the universe AFAIK, copying does squat literally,13th Movement will make reinhard motivated to end the fight there and then and release spear hell he doesn't exactly do a habaki where he takes all the blows to hug a person, 14th movement is from what i understand if she can perceive it as first she needs to say it and reflect an attack but she can clearly see it, 23rd won't save her from getting speared really due to the fact its made to not miss. She can win just i see reinhard likely taking this more than not despite having one true way its effective nonetheless and ALRFY points nailed it better so yeah i vote for reinhard