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Your exaggerating. Also I'd much rather have the tiering resolved in one thread then two just because the OP got impatient.
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Shinza Banshou Downgrade
- Thread starter Infera28
- Start date
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,910
- 5,812
as i am the only one willing to address this, yes you need to wait (not have to) just need to wait there is no rush
or you can just wait there is no problem
you will when i drop my points
and also the disrespect you are dishing out no offence but i have also been offended by you in this thread so yes just chill out, take a few days break and be back
this is an exageration so just calm down i will reply in 2 weeks
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This thread is already dragged enough, we waited for a week but you did not say anything and you are not even in the knowledgeable members list so I do not know why we have to wait. Also nobody is offending you.
With all due respect, I say if you have a problem, create a new revision thread in the future.
There is no reason to oppose, I am busy and I will never wait two weeks.
Also everyone would be impatient if he was insulted so much in one thread. Stop blaming me for any problems in the thread.
With all due respect, I say if you have a problem, create a new revision thread in the future.
There is no reason to oppose, I am busy and I will never wait two weeks.
Also everyone would be impatient if he was insulted so much in one thread. Stop blaming me for any problems in the thread.
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OR, or or or, you can just forget this thread exists until Pain to 12 comments.
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Only 1 honorary staff has agreed with you, and 1 staff has disagreed with you. No other staff who have commented have really voiced opinions agreeing or disagreeing. You would not have the right to apply anything even if the thread was concluded. At best, you need more staff opinions. Be patient with controversial threads like these.
azontr
He/Him- 39,489
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Controversial? I wouldn't say that. But since Shinza doesn't have many people willing to work on it or people who are legit knowledgeable it obviously takes a while for CRTs to pass lol.
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I say controversial because it's been pretty convoluted and such in the debating.
azontr
He/Him- 39,489
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Nobody is yelling bro lol.
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I do not intend to change the profiles, profiles are locked too. I just do not understand why I have to wait for weeks for the opinion of someone who is not even a knowledgeable member or mod, such a thing is mandatory on this site? we also waited a week before and he did not comment.
There is also no reason why he could not create a new revision thread in the future too.
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I didn't say it was another yelling context.
It's just seriously annoying to see people fight over stuff like that.
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Because debating is still important. If there is an active debate then it's best to wait for the debate to conclude, or come to a standstill for opinions on it to be said. Not everyone can focus all their attention onto this thread just because you want it to be done sooner. He is debating in others threads and besides that, he's got his own personal life. Threads often take months here to conclude.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,910
- 5,812
dude i am the only one willing to give a full reply not half-assed one so just calm down it is not trhat hard to be patient, as i will have to go through the novel and get necessary screenshots and the likes, so yes just chill out
there is no reason why you cannot wait
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This is a better organized summary
Opposition: It is established via the above scan, that each night requires the ability to destroy half the planet (what's in darkness) to beat
Me: It is stated that the reason for destroying the world is that he will remove his darkness in regions that are still too early for the morning and sunlight to come, so there will be neither light nor darkness in these regions, It turns these regions into a void without light and darkness and destroys the world.
"All the darkness would be torn away from the regions where it was far too early for morning to come. They would become an emptiness where neither light nor shadow reigned and then vanish
due to that, the world could crumble if he merely let go of all restraint and traveled around the globe"
It was also repeated in the japanese
This is quite clearly a chain reaction hax under certain conditions, not attack potency.
Also this phrase "A single night's mystery requires the destruction of half the planet" never was stated in novel, this phrase is the reason for the whole current Methuselah's tiering.
Even if we wank that to attack potency then we can not even scale it to every night because it was Full Power Methuselah / Methuselah himself and completely unrelated to nights.
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Opposition: It was said that Methuselah's history and nights are dense and he is made up of nights and every night covers half the earth, If every night is half the size of the earth and nights have density, then density means that every night also has a density equal to half the earth, and therefore every night is low 5-B.
Me: Methuselah is the concept of darkness, not matter or planet, so every night contains only the darkness of half the planet. Why should we say that every night is equal to everything in half the planet and its density? this was never said in the novel and it is illogical and contradicts whole novel, because Methuselah is pure darkness, nothing more and whole novel was about a love story between Methuselah (Darkness) and Claudia (Light).
It has been said that Methuselah's history is dense, which only means that he is a very powerful existence with a high durability / density. We believe that Methuselah is in fact only 6-B+, which is also very dense against the 7-A attacks of commanders. Methuselah's nights are only strong, dense whatever you want to call it to a unknown amount, not more.
In fact, it was said in Dies Irae that when Ren reduced his own history to zero, only the accumulated time with him became zero, and Machina blows could no longer erase his existence, Because Machina's existence erasure is related to time accumulated, this also proves that history in Dies Irae is a metaphysical thing and unrelated to Attack Potency, Durability and etc. It was also said that when Methuselah possessed Ludvig, in fact, he stole his history as well and he became the owner of his whole existence which again proves that history is a metaphysical thing. Dense History = Powerful existence.
Also this density thing is not mentioned at all in Methuselah's profile, all Methuselah's current justification and tiering has been completely debunked. If anyone has new justifications and tiering for Methuselah's nights then they should create a new revision thread, because the job of this thread was to debunk all the "current" tiering in the profile, not something that doesn't exist in profiles.
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Opposition: Methuselah is ranked on the same level of power as Archedemons, who should have at least tier 5 feats
Me: It just means that Methuselah is one rank stronger than the members of the previous rank, nothing proves that all people in a rank have the same amount of power. In fact, the Archedemons themselves have different powers, for example, Khvarenah and Bahlavan are much more powerful than the other Archedemons, or the members of the Yatsukahagi are in the same rank, but Tenma Ootake and Tenma Sakuna are stronger than the others.
If we want to assume that everyone in the same rank has the same amount of power then we have to give all Archedemons and Fallen Angels and Yatsukahagi 3-B even Tenma Numahime and Tenma Momiji. And this is despite the fact that they are from different worlds and have different feats too, this is the worst kind of scaling I have ever seen on this site.
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Me: It was said that Gladsheim could reduce a country to ash and it was only a test of power, Gladsheim scales to Reinhard and Methuselah. We can give it 6-B or 6-B+. Because it was only a test of power and even couldn't really damage Gladsheim and destroy one single soul of Gladsheim.
It was also said that Gladsheim energy was comparable to the most historic earthquakes in history, and that Gladsheim made this energy just by running. We can scale Gladsheim's earthquake to 1585 Aleutian Islands earthquake (Magnitude 9.25), 1730 Valparaíso earthquake (Magnitude 9.1-9.3), 1737 Kamchatka earthquake (Magnitude 9-9.3) and Magnitude 9.5 is 6-B+, making Reinhard and Methuselah At least 6-B+, likely far higher. Because their power is much higher than that earthquake feat and Magnitude 9.5 is 6-B+.
Gladsheim should be much stronger than that feat. Gladsheim then charged a blast and fired, which also must have been much stronger, yet Methuselah kept it in darkness and returned it to Gladsheim, and yet Gladsheim / Hell was totally unharmed and it was only a test of power or experiment too. Also Reinhard could destroy Methuselah with one blow.
Also, Reinhard and Methuselah must be much stronger than Gladsheim's experimental blast, who could turn a country into ash and blast also must be much stronger than earthquake feat.
Reinhard >= Full Power Gladsheim > Methuselah > Gladsheim's experimental blast > Gladsheim's earthquake (At least 6-B)
Opposition: None
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Me: We have to change Tenma Ootake and Tenma Sukuna to High 6-B+, Because Reinhard isn't 3-A anymore and they are stronger than High 6-B+ Tenma Akuro and Tenma Morei. Their profile states that they are as powerful as Reinhard, but no evidence other than a link to a japanese wiki has been given. If you can prove that, then we can change Reinhard and Methuselah to High 6-B+ too.
Opposition: None
Opposition: It is established via the above scan, that each night requires the ability to destroy half the planet (what's in darkness) to beat
Me: It is stated that the reason for destroying the world is that he will remove his darkness in regions that are still too early for the morning and sunlight to come, so there will be neither light nor darkness in these regions, It turns these regions into a void without light and darkness and destroys the world.
"All the darkness would be torn away from the regions where it was far too early for morning to come. They would become an emptiness where neither light nor shadow reigned and then vanish
due to that, the world could crumble if he merely let go of all restraint and traveled around the globe"
It was also repeated in the japanese
This is quite clearly a chain reaction hax under certain conditions, not attack potency.
Also this phrase "A single night's mystery requires the destruction of half the planet" never was stated in novel, this phrase is the reason for the whole current Methuselah's tiering.
Even if we wank that to attack potency then we can not even scale it to every night because it was Full Power Methuselah / Methuselah himself and completely unrelated to nights.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opposition: It was said that Methuselah's history and nights are dense and he is made up of nights and every night covers half the earth, If every night is half the size of the earth and nights have density, then density means that every night also has a density equal to half the earth, and therefore every night is low 5-B.
Me: Methuselah is the concept of darkness, not matter or planet, so every night contains only the darkness of half the planet. Why should we say that every night is equal to everything in half the planet and its density? this was never said in the novel and it is illogical and contradicts whole novel, because Methuselah is pure darkness, nothing more and whole novel was about a love story between Methuselah (Darkness) and Claudia (Light).
It has been said that Methuselah's history is dense, which only means that he is a very powerful existence with a high durability / density. We believe that Methuselah is in fact only 6-B+, which is also very dense against the 7-A attacks of commanders. Methuselah's nights are only strong, dense whatever you want to call it to a unknown amount, not more.
In fact, it was said in Dies Irae that when Ren reduced his own history to zero, only the accumulated time with him became zero, and Machina blows could no longer erase his existence, Because Machina's existence erasure is related to time accumulated, this also proves that history in Dies Irae is a metaphysical thing and unrelated to Attack Potency, Durability and etc. It was also said that when Methuselah possessed Ludvig, in fact, he stole his history as well and he became the owner of his whole existence which again proves that history is a metaphysical thing. Dense History = Powerful existence.
Also this density thing is not mentioned at all in Methuselah's profile, all Methuselah's current justification and tiering has been completely debunked. If anyone has new justifications and tiering for Methuselah's nights then they should create a new revision thread, because the job of this thread was to debunk all the "current" tiering in the profile, not something that doesn't exist in profiles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opposition: Methuselah is ranked on the same level of power as Archedemons, who should have at least tier 5 feats
Me: It just means that Methuselah is one rank stronger than the members of the previous rank, nothing proves that all people in a rank have the same amount of power. In fact, the Archedemons themselves have different powers, for example, Khvarenah and Bahlavan are much more powerful than the other Archedemons, or the members of the Yatsukahagi are in the same rank, but Tenma Ootake and Tenma Sakuna are stronger than the others.
If we want to assume that everyone in the same rank has the same amount of power then we have to give all Archedemons and Fallen Angels and Yatsukahagi 3-B even Tenma Numahime and Tenma Momiji. And this is despite the fact that they are from different worlds and have different feats too, this is the worst kind of scaling I have ever seen on this site.
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Me: It was said that Gladsheim could reduce a country to ash and it was only a test of power, Gladsheim scales to Reinhard and Methuselah. We can give it 6-B or 6-B+. Because it was only a test of power and even couldn't really damage Gladsheim and destroy one single soul of Gladsheim.
It was also said that Gladsheim energy was comparable to the most historic earthquakes in history, and that Gladsheim made this energy just by running. We can scale Gladsheim's earthquake to 1585 Aleutian Islands earthquake (Magnitude 9.25), 1730 Valparaíso earthquake (Magnitude 9.1-9.3), 1737 Kamchatka earthquake (Magnitude 9-9.3) and Magnitude 9.5 is 6-B+, making Reinhard and Methuselah At least 6-B+, likely far higher. Because their power is much higher than that earthquake feat and Magnitude 9.5 is 6-B+.
Gladsheim should be much stronger than that feat. Gladsheim then charged a blast and fired, which also must have been much stronger, yet Methuselah kept it in darkness and returned it to Gladsheim, and yet Gladsheim / Hell was totally unharmed and it was only a test of power or experiment too. Also Reinhard could destroy Methuselah with one blow.
Also, Reinhard and Methuselah must be much stronger than Gladsheim's experimental blast, who could turn a country into ash and blast also must be much stronger than earthquake feat.
Reinhard >= Full Power Gladsheim > Methuselah > Gladsheim's experimental blast > Gladsheim's earthquake (At least 6-B)
Opposition: None
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Me: We have to change Tenma Ootake and Tenma Sukuna to High 6-B+, Because Reinhard isn't 3-A anymore and they are stronger than High 6-B+ Tenma Akuro and Tenma Morei. Their profile states that they are as powerful as Reinhard, but no evidence other than a link to a japanese wiki has been given. If you can prove that, then we can change Reinhard and Methuselah to High 6-B+ too.
Opposition: None
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The argument above really amounted to nothing and is childish.
No one is waiting for that Pain guy, the issue here is no one is willing to help out and no other mod has voiced their opinion. If Pain can't comment until next years then leave him be, you also don't have to wait for him.
Your only option is keep nagging the mods about this until they say yes or no. I feel like there is reasonable amount of back and forth for someone to take a side
No one is waiting for that Pain guy, the issue here is no one is willing to help out and no other mod has voiced their opinion. If Pain can't comment until next years then leave him be, you also don't have to wait for him.
Your only option is keep nagging the mods about this until they say yes or no. I feel like there is reasonable amount of back and forth for someone to take a side
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,910
- 5,812
like i said i plan on commenting when i have time which is in two weeks so like i said wait, if anyone cant wait take a beer and unwatch the thread. as i am sure no one else really gives a rat ass about shinza anyone and i will always support axxing the verse till aditya has been fully released
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You have been watching this thread for a week now and giving excuse every time as to why you don't have time despite being here right now repeating same.
You are just not in the mood for debating, cuz you clearly have time.
It's fine tho, this is really just a nerdy debate about fictional characters blowing shit up.
You are just not in the mood for debating, cuz you clearly have time.
It's fine tho, this is really just a nerdy debate about fictional characters blowing shit up.
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Anyway, looking at the scans again.
The whole "Methuselah will destory half of the planet" seems like a side effect of just removing the concept of darkness from areas where it's still too early for sunlight to come, thus robbing it of both concepts of darkness and light and destorying it isntead of Methuselah-chan actually blowing shit up. Like, it's spesfeically mentioend that he will take darkness from area where it's still early for sunlight
Also, maybe I am dumb, but since when "Darkness" has a density? The whole deal with Methuselah seems like concept this and concept that so him causing hax chain effect seems like a far morereasonable concuclsion. He's taking a very important part of how night and day cycle function, obviously the whole thing will fall apart as result
Also, can someone provied a scan for "power that can destory half of the planet is needed to beat every night" cuz I fail to see one for it.
The whole "Methuselah will destory half of the planet" seems like a side effect of just removing the concept of darkness from areas where it's still too early for sunlight to come, thus robbing it of both concepts of darkness and light and destorying it isntead of Methuselah-chan actually blowing shit up. Like, it's spesfeically mentioend that he will take darkness from area where it's still early for sunlight
Also, maybe I am dumb, but since when "Darkness" has a density? The whole deal with Methuselah seems like concept this and concept that so him causing hax chain effect seems like a far morereasonable concuclsion. He's taking a very important part of how night and day cycle function, obviously the whole thing will fall apart as result
Also, can someone provied a scan for "power that can destory half of the planet is needed to beat every night" cuz I fail to see one for it.
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PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,910
- 5,812
Checking my notifications from.time to time when I have like 5-15 mins free time is not equal to I have the whole day doing nothing so yes I don't have time, as replying will require me going through a few part of the novel and I can't do that right now can I?
PL:
I do not have time as I have other things I need to do in the real world you know. So please just drop it and come back in two weeks
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I do not know why you speak as if we are "forced" to wait and we have no right to disagree. You have no respect for our opinion that if you disagree, create a new revision thread in the future too and you do not care that the thread is already dragged and messed up enough and we are tired.
We do not have to wait until then, no rules on site will "force us", but if none of the mods will read the thread or summary completely and conclude by then, then we will wait. The only reason we will wait is that none of the mods will be in the thread until then, because that is the only reason why the result of the debate in the thread will not be concluded.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,910
- 5,812
Yh sure good luck getting others to input
And you are not forced to wait stop being unreasonable it's just some days more the ratings have there for years they can stay a little longer
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Just stop rushing shit through will you? Makes you seem like the asshole here, people have lives outside of a stupid website where people debate the ratings and matchups between different characters. Take a good nice drink of that chillerade and be patient.
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Seriously, why nowadays peoples are so impatient?
If this thread are still dragging due of this crap, i'm going to ask the mods to close it and wait for Pain to ready and we can re-opened this, how's that?
If this thread are still dragging due of this crap, i'm going to ask the mods to close it and wait for Pain to ready and we can re-opened this, how's that?
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This seems to make sense to me, and I think that QuasiYuri agrees with it.
@SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Wokistan @Elizhaa
What do you think?
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Please stop calling other people here assholes.
Anyway, I think that this is a mostly fun and friendly website.
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Thank you for your commitment to accuracy.
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No. Thread won't be closed and OP is under no obligation to wait for anybody and is allowed to bump the discussion as many it take to people to reach a concusion.
Ant seems to take the OP side so that's a start.
As I mentioned before, the OP suggestion makes a lot of sense and I am yet to see a reasonable counterargument, the only thing I am seeing is "plz wait I have life" and "ree why won't you let the thread takes months"
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Someone forgot to change it accordingly.Btw, I would like to mention that Hirume is still 5-A "for scaling above the three commanders" despite the commanders being ranked as 7-A, why is that? Even if she's 5-A the profile reasoning is very wrong
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Would you be willing to handle it?
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,910
- 5,812
that was a biased summary and literally no concrete argument has been made from the opposing side and like i said he should give me some days and i can repky
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You comment an awful lot for someone we have to wait for.
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Well there's some more stuff that would make things even more consistent (7-A Commanders feat being invalid for example) but it's a pain to deal with all the stuff linked to Shinza threads.
