Reimu Hakurei (Window) vs Fiamma of the Right (5-B)

[Andykhang]

^Though it I remember correctly, it's more like that spell is so insignificant, she don't even take notice of it.

And yeah, Reimu "Intuition" is the real thing, capable of even guessing the vague future of people she met , and have been known to be her M.O of solving incident (Though that kinda doesn't work if she put her thought into it). According to her though, it's because she "see" the 3 layer of the world that govern how thing work: the first is for how thing physically work, the second is the chance for this to work, and the third contain the memories of it action so thing doesn't repeat itself. This of course is tied in with the second application of her ability: To "float" with the flow of the world, thereby feeling it's fortune.

...Which, if according to my explanation, then FN negated her intuition completely, since she's using it first application to moved out of the world. Huh...Well, at least since illusion is a way to explot the limit of human, having escape that limit does prevent illusion (and these conventional magic doesn't touch her anyway). Buuuut if you considered that the sense is just a shadow of how the real world work, and thus an illusion, then for someone that escaped the world, her view is going to be different, and capable of seeing the hidden thing human sense just can't comprehense. (she does see the hidden "Dimensional Rift" that's essential to her teleportation, even in normal mode. And again... the intuition thing).

In conclusion... yeah I just defeated my own point right here. The second paragraph is a theory, so take it whatever you want. But the first one is right, as in here: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Curiosities_of_Lotus_Asia/Chapter_27

 

[LazyHunter]

So if I understood correctly, her intuition is a real thing based on that third layer, the layer of memory, which governs probability...TBH, I'm beginning to think that this match won't go anywhere considering both FN and HR's hax.

 

[Andykhang]

^No, the second one governs probability, or rather contain all the posibility of this one thing, while the third one make sure it doesn't repeat, and responsable for true randomness. It's kinda like checking the history log to see what doesn't come yet.

 

[LazyHunter]

I was going by your link, which has this: "The physical layer follows the laws of physics, the mental layer explains the outcomes and the memory layer alters probability, mutually creating the future." and "The naturally-lucky Reimu, simply by using the memory of the dice, could make the outcome favor herself. The results just seemed to side with Reimu." But then again, my knowledge of Touhou is sub-par, so you're probably right.

 

[Andykhang]

^Yeah, it's so broken, that one of her shot isn't inherently homing in the first place, but rather just hone into her opponent by chance, and she perceive them as going straight.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

What exactly are your sources for the capabilities of FN? It is new to me that it was mentioned to protect against illusion or increase reimus intuiton.
Also reimu was affected by illusions in the past. Keine turning the village invisible to be specific. Not in FN, but I don't see the difference.

From the scale of it it's a high level illussion spell that didn't trick Yukari though. Could've been related to history and time imo. It's not just some minor thing, could've been altering or eating it. Even with that Reimu dealt with Reisen's illussions before or could just be a showcase of Yukari and Keine's scale.

Never saw that probabillity ability of Reimu before. Really showcases her capability huh. And surprising. Didn't even know Reimu's abilities are like that. OP Miko, nerf please.

 

[Andykhang]

^In Keine caes, it's more like posting false fact on the internet because people are too lazy to check it. Guess that's why Reimu didn't see it.

So what's your vote again? Wish we have more people though.

 

[Andykhang]

bump

 

[Andykhang]

double bump

 

[Andykhang]

triple bump

 

[Andykhang]

quadtruple bump

 

[LordAizenSama]

Thinking you should probably give up buddy.

 

[Andykhang]

never said never, dude!

 

[NoName666]

IMO, the extend of FN is unknow so to be able to debate this we need to consider the Touhou verse, they are all likely to be 4D, they unable to hit Reimu so I think FN actually taking Reimu to 5D. So the 11D spell DontTalk mention above should be able to hit her I think.

I don't know much about Touhou verse and I think FN is very broken IMO but I think Fianma can take round 2.

 

[Andykhang]

^It's still dodgable though, not to mention Reimu would probably see that coming even sooner than he does (being able to see hidden dimension and all). Not to mention this spell is still exclusive to Curtana Original.

 

[NoName666]

I think the dimension she sees is still limited to the extend of the verse so it still 4D right? The spell is 11D so I think it has more chance to hit her. And as in the description of the spell it said that the user can just swing the blade then at the coordinates the user want will apper an dimensional debris whether they are lower or higher dimension, so it will be very hard to dodge because there will no projectile or affect or anything to detect except if Reimu have cosmic awareness.

 

[Andykhang]

There's still her intuition to considered from, which is basically a low-class limited cosmic awareness already (as i assume, since it involved her reading the hidden layer of memories that reject loop) . So she would still be able to dodge it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm not involved in this thread, but isn't intuition useless in a fight? I mean, anyone would be able to immediately understand an attack.

 

[Andykhang]

It's not, only skilled expert would immediately understand an attack, and that's only if they see it before, while she's just a lazy bum that's somehow "born wise". Her intuition is more like precognition , not to mention her unusual perception that see the object bend while it suppose to go straight.

 

[OwariNepgear]

Reimu this... Reimu that... FN this... FN that... We're getting nowhere at this rate.

So, Andy, just as you said, that 11D attack may (or may not) be dodgable. But, as long as Fiamma has his Holy Right, there's no "dodge" for Reimu.

Just take a look at his profile, you can see "Holy Right Auto Target" and "The Strikes That Reaches Everything When Swung". He just need to combine his Holy Right with his 11D attack, he will have a "never-miss 11D attack". Since the 2nd round is "all bet are off", this is allowed.

Stop showing your love and put some limit to it. All i can see is, you're supporting Reimu way too much, more like you're trying to convince people to agree with you and vote for Reimu. Reimu has no Cosmic Awareness, she can't even see True Moon and can't even reach there without her friend(?)'s help.

I'm not starting a war. My perspective is, if that 11D attack is actually true (can't find any info about it, though), this thread should be closed due to STOMP. Fiamma stomps this hard in round 2 because Reimu can't hurt him because of his right hand's broken defensive function while he can easily nuke her down (Round 1 should be removed because if you take his Holy Right away, he's basically a regular human). But, if that 11D attack isn't true, this match will end up with Inconclusive because both of them can't hurt each other, and they're gonna fight till the world's end.

 

[LazyHunter]

Fiamma doesn't have Curtana. DontTalk merely pointed out that one of the things Index has analyzed (and thus Fiamma has knowledge of) is Curtana, and that, theoretically, Fiamma could probably make his own Curtana (given that it's already been replicated before by magicians who were likely inferior to him). However, we don't know how much time that would take him, so I don't think we should count this option.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Didn't Fiamma say he could of used Curtana, but then said that it probably wouldn't work because as soon as his own power went through it, it would destroy it?

Anyway this match does seem rather pointless.

 

[LazyHunter]

More or less. When he showed up at the end of OT18 Carissa asked him if he had come to steal Curtana Original, which had just been destroyed. Fiamma's answer is basically "Oh, I guess I could have tried using it. On second thought, it'd probably shatter", so it sounds like he meant using it for his ritual and plans and not as a weapon. As Carissa mentions, Curtana does have the power of Archangel Michael, which is the archangel Fiamma is aligned to, so affinity would likely not be an issue.

 

[Andykhang]

Wait, isn't that exclusive only to the Holy Right? I don't remember the instant it applied to other weapon too.

 

[Hazerddex]

round 1 fiamma would win (though i don't know how you would realisticly prevent reimu using fantasy nature seeing as its tied to her for index fans think of it as the power a saints born with or a esper power, unless they are doing a spellcard battle where everyone is put on equal footing.)

Round 2

Reimu her fantasy nature as stated in grimore of marisa has no limit. unless used in a spell card battle. (also the wakasashi sisters have only fought the people in gensyoku (see SSiB) in a spell card battle so idk where people are getting this ZUN said thing from seeing as anyone could say some one said somthing. besides this does not meen that Fantasy nature has a limited time of use.) and fantasy nature as said above is not "magic tied to shinto" in a sense its more like a esper power.

and she does have slight boundry maunipulation with her barriers (see grimore of marisa) but not on the same level as yukari

besides fantasy nature Reimu can summon gods and unless magicians of index are magic gods they are not that level however if fiamma has index he might beable to stop her summoning with a counter shinto spell.

stated in hopless masqurades settings fantasy seal (Shinto 0, Taoism 0, Buddhism 0 ) so its not a shinto spell however her needles, yinyang orb, and talsmans fall under Shinto and Taoism

reimu was able to split a full grown mans skull in half in forbidden scrollery and kick downa sturdy woodden door.so if fiamma had index he could counter a lot of her spell attacks. but not her psyical strength

so this one seems a bit of a stailmate reimu losses a lot of her attacks. due to most of them being tied to shinto.

she could beat fiamma to death using a combo of her fantasy nature, fantasy seal and strike strength. but fiammas regen is good. but fantasy seal could stop some of his magic

Fiamma on the other hand can't exactly hurt her in her Fantasy nature. so this really feels like a stailmate.

ya this match is kind of pointless since its hard to apply Indexverse magic and supernatural rules to the touhouverse where supernatural and magic blend together so much its hard to tell them appart


reads posted date FK my bad

 

[JBennett]

so is this a 5-B battle between the two?