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Regular Mira Downgrade (Dragon Ball) (also, additional info from new game)

RashFaustinho

RashFaustinho

230
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In the Mira page it is stated that he was able to take on both Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Buu... in their "non-canonical" version, that is their Toei version which has upgrades compared to their manga counterpart.

First off, how has it been determined that those two he faced were their "non-canon" versions? The game (DB XV) takes place in a universe where Battle of Gods happened, so their Manga counterpart should be taken in consideration as well.

EDIT: The Xenoverse part has bene settled. The rating Is correct.

This is also proven by the fact that in the recently released game, DBZ Kakarot, Mira gets defeated by a group of 3 undetermined Z warriors (3 among Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo or Future Trunks) shortly after the events of the Buu Saga, and that game definitely doesn't take into account the anime, but instead considers the manga as source (yeah, they added sub quests with new stories, but in the promotional campaign it was clearly stated that the game was based on the manga)

Shouldn't Regular Mira be on 4-B like all other Buu Saga (manga) characters?
 
The game, Dragon Ball Xenoverse clearly goes of by the Toei Anime, by including Broly, Dragon Ball GT, and literally every movie villain in DBXV2 (They happen literally in the same universe). Therefore it would logically mean they scale to the anime, because if not, 4-A Broly would somehow be stronger than 4-B Kid Buu in this game (when, if we go with non-canon stats, the reverse would be true.)
 
I was under the impression that XV treats non-canonical stuff such as GT in separate, non-related timelines?

They can access to them, but it's not the original timeline of the Time Patrollers, which instead take the events of the "canon" DBZ up to Battle of Gods (and then branching in something different, in XV2 due to RoF and onward DBS becomes a separate universe again)

What about Mira in Kakarot then? He gets KOed by 3 of the Z Warriors in a post-Buu setting, and the game seems to take the manga into consideration.
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Okay. Thanks. Did you tell them what it is about?
 
What I meant is that the game itself takes place in the same Multiverse (When I say universe I meant the same storyline). The characters themselves still appear, and there is no indication that the scaling would be any different from the anime one, since characters such as Kid Buu would scale to Broly's 4-A (since there is no indication that SSJ Goku in this timeline, in the context of Xenoverse, is any stronger than, say, SSJ3 Goku from the "canon" one, as applying the manga scaling would imply.)

While these stories take place in different timelines, they all take place within the same multiverse/storyline and as such the scaling applies to all of the characters (Broly, being non-canon, would scale below Kid Buu. Him being 4-B in the same game Broly appears wouldn't make sense).
 
XV2 states that the movies are other timelines, but it's not like Goku gets completely flattened by Turles when they have an encounter, and Gohan is able to take on an extremely amped Broly, though Elder Kai stated fighting both them and Super Buu would be too much, but it's not like Gohan is 4-B and would be utterly yeeted by a 4-A, just two 4-As coming at him at once would be too much

I also could have sworn there were certain pieces of filler in XV but I'm wracking my brain for it and nothing's coming out

Also, on that Kakarot point, it also has plenty of filler and I have a gut feeling they'll also have the one scene where Buu is tearing a galaxy up
 
Ok, I understood the reasoning now. Makes sense.

What about the "DBZ Kakarot"'s Mira then? Is he an entirely different being altogether? Should he scale to manga characters since we lack Toei characters there? Should that version be listed in his page?
 
I dunno, just saying that Kakarot is based on the manga doesn't mean much when you consider the anime too is based on it and just adds a ton of stuff

... You know, like Kakarot

Except the anime doesn't do dumb things like "all furries came from drugs" and "the moon bust was actually an illusion"
 
DBZ Kakarot, while being loyal to the original story, seems to have some instances of anime filler and added story on it. It honestly seems that the game isn't loyal to the manga as much as it is too the original DBZ story in general (no DBS, movies and such. At least yet that is.)

As for Mira, since the game seems to follow the anime's take on the story, I think Mira's first key would serve as his DBZ Kakarot key.
 
Well, in the end, it's the same as Xenoverse, what it counts is "On what's it based in?"

The story of Xenoverse isn't the same as the one from Toei products, but it has been concluded that the characters that took part in it must be the same as Toei characters. It's not like "Xenoverse Broly" has a different rating from his movie counterpart.

Technichally, even though it's different from the manga in some parts, DBZ Kakarot is based on that media, so the characters that took part in it should be equal to their manga versions, and Mira (or, at least, the "DBZ Kakarot" version of Mira) should scale from that.

(And yeah, I also found that animal-drug thing pretty stupid, but believe it or not, seems like this is Toriyama's idea, or at least that's what Shonen Jump said)
 
for fork's sake Toriyama you dum dum

Either way, finding the 4-A feat for Kid Buu would be immensely easier if I knew where that exposition was actually given in canon oh boy
 
Well, too be fair, we do have Android 21 as 3-A even though she is non-canon, because there is no indication FighterZ takes place in the anime timeline and such, so I guess Mira in DBZ Kakarot being 4-B isn't exactly out of the question.

Mira's base in Dragon Ball Xenoverse being 4-B however is out of the question.
 
I do agree with Julian on these paritcular points. While I do plan to revise when the 'Tier 2' scaling actually starts in XV2 [as implications imply it starts actually before BoG in XV2 [Buu Arc] as opposed to XV1 as the timeline's power level was changed drastically in comparison to the original], it doesn't really interfere with this thread too much. Also, Post-XV1 Toei Broly [yes Broly takes place in the XV canon after BoG] and XV2 Broly is a very specific case that actually is far, far higher than Toei Broly was originally.

About Mira, DBZ Kakarot very clearly takes place after he gets originally destroyed in the first XV, but before he comes back in XV2.
 
If what Seed said is true, regarding the timeline, then Mira's statistics would still remain "At least 3-C".
 
What? There Is no evidence that DBZ Kakarot Is in the Xenoverse Canon. It would be like saying that we see Android 21 before she gets mad in FighterZ, they're not the same.

And also, if he remains 3-C, how Is It explained that he gets defeated by Buu Saga Z Warriors?
 
Well, yes. The events of DBZ Kakarot (Mira's arc) happen somewhere before the XV games. However which one of the two is up for debate.
 
Xenovere clearly has the movie characters tied in with similar main timeline ones and the power is similar, like Cooler alongside Frieza, mecha Cooler during Cell games, Broly apppearing during the Buu saga, and all of them are not vastly above mainline Goku, Vegeta etc. So I disagree personally, I don't see a need to downgrade Mira since he clearly should scale to these guys to as he is considered superior to them by Towa being her ultimate creation, while they are just mind controlled fodder to her.

As for kakarot Mira, I haven't played the game, but the fact Mira is in it would suggest it should get the toiverse feats to me since it clearly deviates from strictly manga.
 
@DMUA

So what do you think that we should do here?
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
No because the plot elements directly tie in with Dragon Ball Online and Xenoverse. It has nothing to do wirh "They look and act the same, therefore are the same timeline".
Click to expand...
As far as I've seen, there is none of that. There is no evidence of it being tied to Online or even Xenoverse. Maybe I could be wrong, but if so, I'd like to know why.


____

Also "the fact that Mira is in it suggests that Toeiverse should be considered" makes no sense.

1) We have a statement from the author that says that the additional plot elements are an extra compared to the MANGA

2) If that was Toeiverse, then we should get at least one non-canon character during the Main Story, which is not the case. Mira is an extra boss that comes AFTER that. Saying that the whole game not following the canon just for extra content is nonsensical. By that logic, there will never be again a DBZ product that can stick solely to the manga. Because nothing will ever be 1:1 the original
 
As far as I'm seeing, you can ignore it, and not add a key at all (since the ones already present clearly state that those are based on his Xenoverse / Heroes versions), or you can add a 4-B key for his DBZ Kakarot version.

What I'm 99% sure, though, is that DBZ Kakarot is based off the manga, so IF he would have a key for DBZ Kakarot, that would be 4-B, that's all.

Whatever is important to add that 4-B key to his page, that much I dunno. I don't know if there are particular limits / regulations / common sense about how many and which keys have to be added to the profiles.
 
Wait, Wasn't Mira in DB Kakarot from in between Xenoverse 1 and 2 ? if it was before 1, Towa wouldn't have needed to reconstruct and wouldn't have been in the middle of her 'make Mira absorb ton of fighting energy' like she was in 2.
 
There is no evidence of Kakarot being in the same timeline as Xenoverse, let alone it being a Midquel

In fact, Towa talks about "perfecting" Mira which still hasn't accessed his Full Power, they don't talk about healing him.
 
We have always given the non canon games the TOIE feats for scaling purposes. Clearly Kakarot has things in it that are not in the origional manga, including Mira himself, and also they even have easter eggs with like Android 21 from Fighterz in there. I don't see a need to make a seperate key personally, but even if we did it would have absolutly no bearing on his other keys, or any other profiles. So I don't see a need.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
We have always given the non canon games the TOIE feats for scaling purposes. Clearly Kakarot has things in it that are not in the origional manga, including Mira himself, and also they even have easter eggs with like Android 21 from Fighterz in there. I don't see a need to make a seperate key personally, but even if we did it would have absolutly no bearing on his other keys, or any other profiles. So I don't see a need.
Click to expand...
Thing is, It never existed a "Canon game", aside from Online (which Is debatable) which ironically features both Mira and Towa.

With the Logic proposed, a videogame based of the manga is impossibile. And note that "based off" and "being Canon" are 2 separate things

The argoment of Kakarot being placed in Toeiverse makes no sense, given that the author himself said that extra features are are extra when compared to the MANGA, not the anime.

Also, the game lacks any of the Toei Arc/Movies in his Story mode, so the game being placed in Toeiverse Is extremly unlikely.

Lastly, I've bene told that FighterZ was taken with the manga scaling into consideration, so Kakarot should be no different.


Kakarot takes place, without a doubt, in a Universe similar to the manga. If a Kakarot Key Is deemed to be useless that's entirely different problem which can be discussed, but to me there is no doubt that the Xenoverse rating cannot be applied to that version of Mira.
 
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