Regarding the SCP Canon

[Dargoo_Faust]

3) this brings up the problem i mentioned before, that being that this would result in only 3 concrete profiles. also, the collab test logs being ignored doesn't make sense since it obviously takes place within that SCPs canon, and so do, by extension, any other linked to SCPs. using a more accepted calc/tale/whatever (age has jack shit to do with anything) is how both SCP and this wiki works

Examples of Plot Induced Stupidity are technically canon but aren't considered. We also don't consider stuff that contradicts itself, and collaborative logs being from multiple uncontrolled authors mean that it's an amalgamation of views on 682 that isn't representative of the actual scip.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:WeeklyBattles/682_Profile_Rework

 

[Agnaa]

It's representative of the collective view of the skip, and an extension of what was originally in mind; a really hard to destroy reptile.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Kepekley seems to make sense in the first post.

 

[Antvasima]

Dargoo's suggestion also seems to make sense:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dargoo_Faust/SCP_Scaling_and_Canon_Proposal

 

[Agnaa]

There's been continued discussion in the SCP discussion thread about these changes. The main worry seems to be how the God tiers (specifically the non-SCPs that only get mentioned in tales) are also getting hit by this change. The nature of their appearances is that of an extended canon.

Let's put it this way. No one who just found out about the site knows who the dumb didily flip Mekhane is. It's like Dark Souls, you dig around, read a thing or two here and there, and then you get a better understanding of the lore going on in the background. The identity of the God tiers is something that was created to be sort of like an inside joke, spawned by the community and only something the community knows about. If you say that the God tiers need to be treated like scips, you're tearing an identity apart because there are close to no scips directly about the God tiers.

Long story short, dismantle the current ratings for SCP profiles, but please don't touch the God tiers.

Thoughts on this proposal?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

i don't think that dismantling 90% of the profiles is a great idea

 

[Agnaa]

No, the guy who wrote Acidverse literally said that Djoric's tales share a universe with Acidverse and were written to have minimal contradictions

Given this statement from Acidverse's author, should we treat Djoric's characters as scaling off of Acidverse's statement of infinite dimensions?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

No, the guy who wrote Acidverse literally said that Djoric's tales share a universe with Acidverse and were written to have minimal contradictions

Given this statement from Acidverse's author, should we treat Djoric's characters as scaling off of Acidverse's statement of infinite dimensions?

as i've already said, under Dargoos rules, unless djoric and the guy who made acidverse are the same person, we can't cross-scale anything

 

[Agnaa]

True, but I don't think author statements were directly addressed by those rules, nor were they commented on by staff here.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Uh, no?

You can use tales that are shared between canons in both, but unless the hubs specify that it is shared with another hub, you can't scale everything.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Djoric's tales dont have extensive hubs and he's too lazy to do anything other than list them

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

As long as they are from the same author, you're fine. I also put "clearly broadcasted collaborative works". That includes coauthorship and stuff like that.

 

[Agnaa]

Given this statement from Acidverse's author, should we treat Djoric's characters as scaling off of Acidverse's statement of infinite dimensions?

Bumping this question.

If the answer is yes, a lot of god tiers get to stay at High 1-B even if they lose other abilities. If no, then they'll probably be left featless.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So the god tier characters from Djoric's works would scale to the High 1-B stuff from Acidverse?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think having Keys is the best option honestly.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So do i but Dargoo thinks otherwise

 

[Agnaa]

@Matthew Meaning an "Extended Canon" key on all relevant profiles, sort of like Star Wars?

 

[Wokistan]

I mean, that doesn't sound too unreasonable. Disney did basically erase the EU from Canon, and the EU is insanely inconsistent at times, but they still have profiles and keys. As long as we apply some sort of consistency standard, having what basically amounts to EU SCP doesn't seem awful. Definitely not as bad as EU Cthulhu mythos.

 

[Antvasima]

Here is what Dargoo posted in the blog:

"I feel bad about this, but after a lot of consideration, I have too much issue with the Extended Canon bit.

Composite profiles are basically what we had before, and by having a key for the hot mess we used to have, we're not exactly solving any issues.

So I think some more time will be needed until I get more opinions on weather or not we should make extended canon/composite profiles. I wanted to keep some of the original aspects of the profiles, but the more and more I look at it, the more issues I see with even trying to keep a semblance of how we used to do these profiles."

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I think having Keys is the best option honestly.

Weekly, that's what I'm proposing.

"Different canonical interpretations of a character are allowed to be on the same profile in the form of different keys (For example, SCP-3589 can have a "SCP File" and "Apotheosis Canon" key)"

Please don't speak for me.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bumping this question.

If the answer is yes, a lot of god tiers get to stay at High 1-B even if they lose other abilities. If no, then they'll probably be left featless.

I'd wait until we have an answer on the proposed rules first.

 

[Agnaa]

It's related to the proposed rules, they kind of need to be answered together.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

If the guy wrote the entirety of Acidverse, and it is backed on both sides, sure. Otherwise there might still be issue.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, he wrote all of Acidverse and then made the statement

 

[Agnaa]

That's what I thought, I don't think it's backed on the other side, only on Acidverse's side, and Acidverse didn't create the relevant characters.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I feel it's a strech because there might not be anything solid backing it from the other side, but if there is solid backing from the other side, sure.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

So just so summarise,

- SCPs are scaled to their own profiles and tales written by the author.

- SCPs get separate keys in accordance with their appearance in canons where they are prominent.

- God tiers get High 1-B thanks to Acidverse.

At least, that's what I got. I'm honestly ok with this, as long as we don't forget that the God tiers are not all SCPs, and that they are extended canon in and of themselves, and should be given the composite canon treatment.

 

[Agnaa]

Gods don't get High 1-B thanks to Acidverse, as Djoric hasn't confirmed that Acidverse is canon to his writings.

EDIT: Also I'm not sure about the "SCPs get separate keys in accordance with their appearance in canons where they are prominent.", I think they only get separate keys in canons that their original creator added them to. i.e. no Leviathan of the Fourth Bride, no Koitern, etc.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Djoric is too lazy to finish his own hubs, you really expect him to do that?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

What Ovens said.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Then we scale of the tales like Dust and Blood. Because if we don't, Scarlet King is just an idea. And that is based off his 001 incarnation.

 

[Agnaa]

Yep, which is why they'll probably just stay at Unknown, given these restrictions.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

To the guy that said Mek and Yalda have no feats aside from being equal:

- Fought "outside space and time"

- Grand Karcist Ion, as part of his apotheosis, stated he saw infinite worlds before ascending to Yaldabaoth's plane of existence

- In the "an anthropological view of sarkism" tale, a foundation doctor was exposed to an ascendance that showed him uncountable universes (fun fact, it was written by the same guy that wrote one of the Hanged King tales).

- In that same story, Ion, again, stated the infinite worlds thing while exposing Lovataar to it.

- In the chinese stories about the yin and yang dragons (Yalda and Mek), I believe it was stated that they transcend the universe.

So yes, they have plenty of at least tier 2 feats. And as shown within the rules, as long as this tales all are part of a canon hub, made for that canon and are consistent, they can be used to scale Yalda and Mek.

 

[Agnaa]

4) Canon/Series/Collaboration: Series of articles that are clearly brodcasted as a collaboration, with a hub specifying which tales and SCPs exist in that canon, are allowed to have scaling feats within themselves. Due note, however, that this only applies to tales and SCPs specifically written for a canon/series. For example, while SCP-3125 is consistent in all of the Antimemetics stories, SCP-055 was not originally written for the series, and therefore feats and abilities from the canon cannot be applied to it.

Yalda and Mek weren't originally written for that canon hub, and so feats from that cannon cannot be applied to it.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Agnaa, that's only for scaling within the canon. For example, you can Scale 3125 to another SCP in its canon as part of its base profile, but you'd need a different key for other interpretations.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Mek and Yalda weren't originally written for the Sarkism and Church of the Broken God canon hub?

 

[Agnaa]

Oh shit, I saw "Apotheosis" and thought you were referencing "Apotheosis Hub".

I'm not familiar enough with those hubs. But it seems like Dargoo's changed his stance on characters needing to be created for their hubs, so even if they weren't written for those hubs it doesn't matter.

In that case, there should be a key for Leviathan of the Fourth Bride, and Koitern, and more, because they all have canon hubs involving them, and @Dargoo, you should move their profiles from major edits to minor edits.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Almost everyone has reached a general consensus at this point. All we need is for Kep to stay woke and agree. After which, I think the revisions can be applied.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

They still need major editing, just in the form of having different keys.

Since the rules are still being debated, again, wait until we have decided on whether or not we even want the rules to start with.

To simplify the hub issue: If an SCP is on the hub of something, every scp on that hub can scale from it as long as they were written for the hub to begin with. However, that SCP wouldn't be able to scale from the hub for its base file key as it wasn't written as part of the hub to begin with.