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Regarding the SCP Canon

Matthew Schroeder said:
Dargoo Faust said:
Elder Scrolls has an "Official Canon" by what you just said. SCP doesn't.
Click to expand...
It doesn't. And that's what makes it great.
Also, the TES Forum Roleplay that was run by six different Bethesda Writers (The Trial of Vivec) is something that absolutely should be used for the profiles. It contains insightful, world-changing statements about how the metaphysics work.
Click to expand...
I'm sort of in disbelief that you're okay with verses that can be actively upgraded by users. SCP can be upgraded, retconned, and altered at the whim of the users. There is an active effort for every user to be able to follow their own view of the verse, and you're completely fine with considering that as one conglomerate mass of canon and calling it a day. If needed, I can upgrade 682's Tier right now if you'd like, and add new resistances. Might take a week or two, but apparently that's fine now.

Roleplaying Forums and sites like Creepypasta are verse eligible now, I suppose.

We need some semblance of order in looking at this verse. Otherwise you can justify any tier through chains of scaling, and add dozens of abilities.

(EDIT): Also, I have yet to get any sort of response in regards to many of you thinking I'm "banning everything", or "not including keys", because clearly that's not on the blog post.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
No, you cannot justify ANY tier through scaling in SCP, once again its not nearly inconsistent
Click to expand...
We were arguing Tier 1-A off of a one-off scip about a pool ball.
 
And everyone discredited that as an outlier and scaling breaking. We still have the whole CRT process for this kind of thing.
 
And? Youre acting like that would make everyone in the verse 1-A, which it wouldnt, only the god tiers.

Plus that was already determined to be not legit
 
I'm arguing that using scaling between SCPs by different authors lets you get ridiculous results in terms of the tiering of the verse. Even if it wasn't accepted, the fact that it was a major point of discussion really says a lot.

My point still stands about the active discouragement to follow a consistent canon, as well as for collaborative logs and the many examples of contradictory tales and SCPs that I provided.
 
Except it doesnt, characters are almost always portrayed as being a consistent level across multiple works by multiple authors.
 
To illustrate what I mean about Forum Roleplays and multiple contradicting backstories:

The Trial at Hogithum Hall, an Elder Scrolls Roleplay had in the Bethesda Forums back in like 2004. Which had participation from the following Bethesda writers:

Michael Kirkbride, Ted Peterson, Kurt Kuhlmann, GT Noonan and Ken Rolston.

But also had a ton of fan participation.

This Roleplay is cano, in-so far as the word means anything when it comes to Elder Scrolls.

It also elaborates a lot on Vivec's character and his contradictory backstories. In fact, we would only have implications were it not for this. The Roleplay deals with Vivec being judged by his murder of Indoril Nerevar, and his response to it.

Some quotes:

Allerleirauh:
I have read the words which the others here have spoken, and taken thought. I have little knowledge of procedure, and I would not act against the wishes of the other two members of this Tribunal, but it seems to me I know enough to begin.
If there has been a breach of Imperial law, this court is not the place to seek a remedy. Besides, I see no evidence of such a breach. The Armistice is no concern of ours; and many of these events occurred in a time when the land now called Morrowind owed no allegiance to the Empire.
These are matters of a higher law, which it may be even the gods cannot escape.
For a crime to have occurred, there must be a victim. I see three categories of victim, and so I propose to divide these crimes into three heads: crimes against Nerevar; against the gods and against Vivec's own soul; and crimes against the people of Morrowind. I propose to take each in turn, although in some places they overlap.
Vivec, you are accused, with the other two members of the Tribunal, Sotha Sil and Almalexia, of the murder of Indoril Nerevar, Hortator and your good and faithful lord. A murder most foul, considering that he was also Almalexia's husband and king.
B:
After much soul-searching, I have decided that I was fooling myself and others. These matters of Vehk ARE of concern to me. I seek to collect Answers, and perhaps, someday, those Answers will make a story that will be worthy of being placed in a Library.
I shall throw Words first:
Using Sermon 29 as a guide, a message can be retrieved from within the 36 Lessons. The message reads, "He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator. Vivec wrote this."
Grab ahold of these Words as I throw them at your feet, Vehk. Please explain the message contained within your Sermons.
To which Vivec answers:

Vehk:
As Vehk and Vehk I hereby answer, my right and my left, with black hands.
Vehk the mortal did murder the Hortator.
Vehk the God did not, and remains as written.
And yet these two are the same being. And yet are not, save for one red moment.
Know that with the Water-Face do I answer, and so cannot be made to lie.
When pressed further about this, Vivec elaborates:

Vehk:
I will leave it to others to find where I have written all this before. But when Vehk the mortal reached into the Heart, he ceased to be anything except for what he wished to be. The axis erupted. There was an exact cracking, an instant of pure Aurbis, his hands burnt black by that ever-nil of static change, and Vivec the god who had never been had always been. A whole universe swelled up to legitimize his throne... as the old universe, where Vehk the mortal still lapped up Godsblood, warped itself to accept its new equivalent. And like all things magical it simply could not happen, could not Be. Red Mountain was the intersection of the Is-Is Not as it was of old, its center point, and it did not hold. And so the Dragon, having broken, saw fit to heal, turning into the world you know. Except now Vivec the God was alive before his own birth, which had, in fact, really happened in the death of the last universe. Hard to grasp in three-dimensional thought? Why, of course it is. And so that is why some semblance of my anguished personal reconciliation found its way into my own scripture. Why did I leave the Nerevarine two accounts of his death, one that I could have easily erased from the minds of my own people? Because he is Hortator, GHARTOK PADHOME AE ALTADOON DUNMERI, my lord and king in this world and the last, and as Vehk and Vehk I murdered him, then raised him, then taught to him to know, and so would I have it when he came to me at last that he decide. I give you this as Vivec.
A Forum Roleplay with Fan-Participation that is still Canon. Dealing with the subject of a contradictory and confusing character with multiple, exclusive backstories.
 
@Matt

"compiled and interpreted"

SCP does neither of those. There is some form of regulation going on here, determined by official writers who were hired by Bethesda. SCP only gets regulation in terms of upvotes and downvotes if something isn't directly obscene.

You have active participation and regulation from people who are part of the writing team for the verse. SCP has no form of that, djkaktus or Gears can't come in and say "yeah, this isn't SCP" and strike down ideas.

Again, are you implying that RP Forums can be considered eligible for verses?
 
Compiled and interpreted by a fan my dude. And like 70% of the characters in the Roleplay are played by fans.

This isn't official. This was done because the people are fans who wanted to have fun. The writers included.

Michael Kirkbride left Bethesda in 2004 or so and he kept writing Out-Of-Game Lore and posting it on Forums. And like 90% of that is canon.
 
You're still implying SCP is on a similar level to Elder Scrolls, it's not. The original plot for the Elder Scrolls was published before what you're discussing, and there is no official "original plot" of SCP. There is 173, but since then users are actively encouraged to deviate from that entirely.

682 can be upgraded by users on this wiki if they just make a Wikidot account and have semi-decent writing. I feel like there is something very wrong about that.

Even then we wouldn't haphazardly cross over the lore you're talking about with game lore, as like you said "This isn't official". I am totally fine with seperate keys for different canons, just not one key that includes every canon.

(EDIT): I have still yet to get a solid opinion from you past this debate. Are you opposing the proposal entirely, or just the fact that I'm reluctant to include extended canon?
 
@Dargoo

>Original Plot

You mean Arena, a game that has like 0 plot? All the plot of TES was developed over time, a lot of it being collaborative and born of writer-player interaction.

I am saying that the two verses are no different.

Not being "Officially Published" isn't an impediment for TES. As long as it is written by a writer / former writer it can count. Specially Michael Kirkbride's crazy writings who are used in the games all the time.

So what if the Verse has an open-source lore. How is that not okay, those are around all the time.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
So what if the Verse has an open-source lore. How is that not okay, those are around all the time.
Click to expand...
*sigh*

Alright then, you're okay with circular upgrading in that case.

I feel like we need to have a serious look at how we interpret TES if it's also the case for that verse. What we're basically saying is that we can add OCs as well as upgrade existing characters on a verse as long as the owners of the verse have "open source lore". I don't see how that's okay.

However, if that is how we want to run the site, fine. We should lift the restrictions on Marvel and DC while we're at it.
 
Depends on what we're talking about. A tidbit on a specific interpretation by one user shouldn't be used to upgrade 100% unrelated characters.
 
That's the thing. It unquestionably does, as any of the Alternate Universe SCPs where the Foundation's concept itself isn't a thing will tell you.
 
Perhaps I should have said alternate canons as opposed to universes? That's what they are.

Even the canon where the canon itself is composite is nothing but one canon.
 
The cosmology should not be considered different with different authors, it should not be a requirement for every single author to flat out establish the level of cosmology inn every work on the site
 
Oh, alright. Guess we still are on the same page. For a second, I thought you had a 360 and changed your previous PoV entirely within this week.
 
When it's explicitly stated that there are different canons, that can't really be wished away by "multiple universes".

Canons are not universes, they are entirely different stories. I don't want to powerscale because we're scaling between entirely different stories.
 
In the stories themselves at that.

I'm going off of official pages. Please tell me where it says that on a page that isn't an SCP/Tale/Story/etc.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Alternate canons can't possibly be alternate universes (at least not in the context of a timeline)
Click to expand...
They are, there are multiple tales that are flat out stated to be alternate universes or alternate timelines, with several one-off tales and a few SCPs exploring this
 
Dargoo Faust said:
In the stories themselves at that.
I'm going off of official pages. Please tell me where it says that on a page that isn't an SCP/Tale/Story/etc.
Click to expand...
So...you want me to prove it but i cant use anything from the site. How exactly does that makes sense?
 
Each narrative contains infinite multiverses within itself, so can't really be uused as proof of anyone scaling except Swann
 
Yaldabaoth is limited to a single narrative. That actually debunks your argument, considering he can't receive scaling from canons that aren't related to the COBG, and he is literally the reason behind the existence of the SCP scaling chain.
 
I want you to prove it using statements from the lore explainations themselves, not from stories that can be completely unrelated.
 
Yal actually isnt limited to a single narrative, there are multiple authors who have written about it, and its level in the hierarchy places it above the multiverse
 
Yes, Yal is limited to a single narrative, since all canons that are interconnected with the Church of Broken God are, by SCP definition, within one narrative.

Narratives are hypermeta.
 
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