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Regarding the SCP Canon

I'd just recommend calling the page Yaldaboath (Sarkism Hub or just Sarkism) / Mekhane (Broken God Hub)
 
I have to say that I 100% disagree with the proposition of disregarding all cases of Extended Canon and limiting the verse to each file page and nothing more. That's absolutely ridiculous, and done in a knee-jerk reaction, and for fallacious reasons.

The existence of contradictions and ambiguity absolutely has to be addressed and discussed, but acting that because both exist, nothing should be accepted is jumping the gun and the shark. This is no different thant the downplay done to H.P. Lovecraft, Warhammer 40,000 and The Elder Scrolls - All verses that make usage of unreliable narrators, in-universe sources, uncertain and contradictory myths, etc - to tell its stories and worlds.

This is the equivalent to forcing the Star Wars profiles to adhere strictly to the G-Canon Movies and nothing else.

One of the main examples of "contradictions" I've been given is in regards to Yaldabaoth, how it is described as a feminine goddess that acts on instinct, and in another it is described as a positive version of Satan.

Okay, but like, why do you think that's a contradiction and proof that the authors are just doing what they want? Isn't like 99.9% of SCP written from in-universe sources. Cosmic Entities being interpreted by various ways by mortals in-universe is the most common thing. The key is simply to take neither entry completely serious or literally.

To use TES as an example again: The two primordial beings of the Verse are Anu and Padomay - Stasis and Change. The two have been described in sources as:

  • Literally just Light and Dark Personified
  • Two brothers who both loved a woman, and after her death both blamed the other and entered an eternal conflict
  • A Monotheistic God, and a Satan figure
  • A married couple of Primordial divine cats
Are these contradictions? No, these are just the various ways that mortals can interpret incomprehensible forces, as shaped by their cultures and beliefs. There are entire books in-universe dedicated to comparative mythology there.
 
While I agree with Matt on the disregreguard of the extended canon, I believe the solution was already made with seperate keys for

1) The main profile,

2) Extended canon, and

3) Hub specific canon

Also I addressed the problem with the different backstories for one character on the SCP Discussion thread. We simply pull a LoL and seperate the backstores with tabbers for the different origin stories like LoL profiles do with retconned lore, and alternative lore.
 
Honestly, I don't know why we can't make separate Keys from different interpretations of a character from a different canon and stick only with stuff done by the same author. This would lead to most SCPs being featless, and I can name an SCP which fixes all of this "Canon" shit with a cosmology detail built around metafiction, as well as an instance by Word of God which states all variations of the Foundationverse are contained by Yesod, the root of all Creation

And like Matt said, characters like Mekhane and Yaldabaoth vary heavily from canon to canon. In one instance they are a dualistic pair of Chinese Deities, and on another they are literally Sophia and Satan respectively
 
Perhaps somebody should inform Azathoth about this thread?
 
The question then becomes, how much extended canon do we want?

If we keep too many some are worried that we're "basically leaving the profiles as they are". Is that a worry for the staff if these profiles are getting "main file/author canon" keys as well?
 
There is another way to keep things consistent, and that is "era" scaling.

The multiple SCP-001s which state that they created every SCP should only scale to the SCPs that came out at the time or "era".

That way, we can keep things consistent and with less contradictions while having the benefit of using extended canon.
 
That sort of thing shouldn't actually be that important. The contradictions I've heard of don't come from 001s that create other SCPs, but from SCPs with different backstories.
 
I have no clue where people got the idea that I'm trying to take a way different keys, I'm not. I just don't like giving all of the popular pages in a verse a composite key for no reason. I'm completely fine with a different key for different canon.

Matt, you're assuming I'm limiting it to the file and nothing more. I put on the blog post several exceptions to this, and allowed for different keys for different canons. My only beef is with extended canon.

You also contantly back your arguments by comparing SCP to different verses, which is just a plain fallacy. Narrative inconsistency isn't an active effort to support authors breaking from canon and making their own interpretations.

Also, none of the verses mentioned have this issue:

> Retconning through popular vote.

> Logs that any user can edit and add abilities to.

> In-Universe statements that there isn't any consistent story, and that the reader should "make what they will".

The same arguments you're putting forward could be used to support a "Slender Man Extended Canon" page, where I could use any sufficiently well received story from Creepypaata to add abilities and Tier.

There's also manny issues with using "in-universes statements" to support anything, as for every authors on the site that claims infinite dimensions, there are others that can claim that the whole verse is a pipe dream or just an infinite multiverse.
 
I personally think that Dargoo seems to make sense, but I am the wrong person to ask about this.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
TES has Canonical Forum Roleplays. This is nothing.
Click to expand...
Now imagine an entire verse consisting of that, and you get SCP.

(also I'm pretty sure we wouldn't use stuff like that for profiles, which, if we did, is probably another issue that needs to be looked at)
 
Yes, it is. I'll reiterate that 106 has 3 backstories, there are over 5 SCPs that explain the afterlife, we already had that's debate on what's a "narrative is", and there are nearly a dozen of SCP that explain how death works.

The fact that we were using cross scaling between tales written by authors who don't even likely know of the existence of the other's stories to justify dimensionality based around a single obscure quote on an SCP says a lot.

And, again, I point to the many instances where it's encouraged that there's no established canon on official pages.
 
Vivec canonically has two completely different pasts and backstories, which are both 100% mutually exclusive and contradictory, and also 100% real and canon. This doesnt mean we completely disregard both and throw them out for no reason. We work around it.

That fact that even though the stories are written by different authors yet the lore of the verse stays moderately consistent and the things that arent consistent are obviously so means that using them should be fine.

Would you like me to pull up the direct quote from the Canon Hub that states that the "There is no canon" claim is outright ridiculous and silly?
 
http://www.scp-wiki.net/canon-hub

"The idea that there is no canon is a bit silly at times. It's not that we don't have any. It's that we have a multitude which touch, cross, and dip into each other. It's up to you, as the reader, to decide what you believe and what you embrace as the heart of the universe. That doesn't mean, though, that authors lack intent or design, and collaboration is the heart of innovation."
 
Actually, I'll pull up that quote for you, Weekly.

"It's that we have a multitude which touch, cross, and dip into each other. It's up to you, as the reader, to decide what you believe and what you embrace as the heart of the universe."

Which is what I'm proposing. I'm cool with authors and canons/series.

Elder Scrolls has an "Official Canon" by what you just said. SCP doesn't.
 
"The idea that there is no canon is a bit silly at times. It's not that we don't have any. It's that we have a multitude which touch, cross, and dip into each other. It's up to you, as the reader, to decide what you believe and what you embrace as the heart of the universe. That doesn't mean, though, that authors lack intent or design, and collaboration is the heart of innovation."
 
@Dargoo From what Matt tells me, Elder Scrolls is far more inconsistent and contradictory and has less canon that SCP
 
That's specifically referring to the canon hub, which is what im proposing.

Yes, author tales and collaborations are also part of what I'm proposing.

No where in there do I see "everything is true and consistent"

Nothing you're bringing up supports Extended Canon, which is what I'm against. Stop assuming I'm some sort of scaling conservative and am against all forms of consistency in this verse.
 
@Dargoo The fact that youre trying to ban use of tales even though the verse is fairly consistent across almost all tales kinda gives that impression
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Dargoo The fact that youre trying to ban use of tales even though the verse is fairly consistent across almost all tales kinda gives that impression
Click to expand...
I'm going to just ask you to read my blog post, which you clearly haven't if you think I want to ban the use of tales.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Yeah, it's completely ridiculous to ban everything.
Click to expand...
I still have no clue where any of you are getting this idea from. That's not what I'm trying to do.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Elder Scrolls has an "Official Canon" by what you just said. SCP doesn't.
Click to expand...
It doesn't. And that's what makes it great.

Also, the TES Forum Roleplay that was run by six different Bethesda Writers (The Trial of Vivec) is something that absolutely should be used for the profiles. It contains insightful, world-changing statements about how the metaphysics work.
 
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