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No snarky comments here, we’re moving right into things
First things to get out of the way
This is marginally related to the existence of metaphysical parliaments, so the first thing of note is that The Writer needs a separate key for their manifestations in the plot. Not only are these manifestations physically able to be harmed by things like humans and animals without any special powers, but they are capable of death if the true writer does not deem them worth keeping around, as is what happened to Morrison when he joined the Suicide Squad.
There have been numerous writer avatars throughout DC, but the ones that are important to this revision are the monkey, Morrison, and possibly Stone.
Stone for those of you who have not subjected yourself to the toxic ball of sludge that is Animal Man past the Morrison run is an animal shaman who was the animal master before Tristess, Vixen, and Animal Man. It is heavily implied that Stone is the writer avatar responsible for overthrowing Morrison
Besides that, on the subject of Swamp Thing, the current idea that he is completely transcendent of metaphysical parliments entirely untrue. In context the current evidence used for that is actually a statement regarding him having access to elemental parliaments beyond the green.
With that in mind, regarding the nature of the four elemental parliaments and their power, Swamp Thing’s new state as God Swamp Thing is very clearly 1-A. The powers granted to him by the four parliaments were specifically for the purpose of overthrowing the Presence, with the Word, who exists to protect god, agreeing this will come to pass. The Word itself even refused to fight Swamp Thing until John Constantine had used the magic of the Parliament of Flames to strip him of his godhood and turn him into a human, as he had already become equal to God with just 3/4 of the powers of the parliaments. Had Swamp Thing not decided that humanity had potential, he would have removed humanity from existence against the wishes of the presence. Additionally, Tefé, who’s powers are drawn only from the Green and a limited amount of the Red, was able to create a form with the ability to simulate the voice of The Presence to cancel out the word.
In regard to the red, contrary to popular belief, the Post-Crisis Red is not actually a parliament in the same sense as the green, more does it share a dichotomy with it like in Post-flashpoint, but rather is closer to the analogue of the other four parliaments, which govern the elements of the earth, while the Red governs living organisms. The nature of the red is a existence that is The Implicate Order of all living beings who exist, have existed, will ever exist, and could ever exist. The Implicate is the higher plane of reality that is similar to Plato’s Archetypal reality, but deeper and more subtle. The basic idea of the the implicate is that “In the enfolded [or implicate] order, space and time are no longer the dominant factors determining the relationships of dependence or independence of different elements. Rather, an entirely different sort of basic connection of elements is possible, from which our ordinary notions of space and time, along with those of separately existent material particles, are abstracted as forms derived from the deeper order. These ordinary notions in fact appear in what is called the "explicate" or "unfolded" order, which is a special and distinguished form contained within the general totality of all the implicate orders” (Bohm 1980, p. xv), and contains all abstractions humanity has ever contemplated. This is confirmed to be the case for the DC universe as well, as the Red contains the realm of ideas and imagination, where all thought experiments like Maxwell’s Demon and Laplace’s Demon exist, as well as Heaven itself. The Overvoid itself is an example of the implicate, as it is the what all of reality is unfolded from rather than just living creatures. Likely for this reason, the Red exists on a level where all the plot, continuity, and retcons are visible to it as fiction, allowing it to not only reach the Pre-crisis Animal Man who had been consigned to limbo, which exists beyond even the godsphere, but also allowing for reach into the Overvoid itself to see the reader. This puts it in a scaling chain of 1-A, possibly High 1-A, due to reaching into this level as well as possibly exceeding certain writer avatars, who at the very least still have the power over the majority of normal existence due to their writings, such as the book with infinite pages
In regards to Swamp Thing’s connection and scaling to the Red, his god state should be comparable to the state Animal Man reached as the “body of god” through communion with the entirety of existence through the red which allowed him to surpass his previous limitations as an animal master to kill The Spider Queen, who held power over the entirety of the realm of imagination. This is because they are both a communion of the entirety of existence and the universe.
For this reason, God Swamp Thing should likely scale to the same feats as the Red and be the same tier. Animal Man himself is a whole other can of worms for tiering, so that will have to be discussed at a later revision. Also slightly off topic but the word should probably be 1-A as he’s supposed to guard the presence so it would likely make sense for him to be on a similar level to the spectre as he doesn’t seem to have the same restrictions as him either
First things to get out of the way
This is marginally related to the existence of metaphysical parliaments, so the first thing of note is that The Writer needs a separate key for their manifestations in the plot. Not only are these manifestations physically able to be harmed by things like humans and animals without any special powers, but they are capable of death if the true writer does not deem them worth keeping around, as is what happened to Morrison when he joined the Suicide Squad.
There have been numerous writer avatars throughout DC, but the ones that are important to this revision are the monkey, Morrison, and possibly Stone.
Stone for those of you who have not subjected yourself to the toxic ball of sludge that is Animal Man past the Morrison run is an animal shaman who was the animal master before Tristess, Vixen, and Animal Man. It is heavily implied that Stone is the writer avatar responsible for overthrowing Morrison
Besides that, on the subject of Swamp Thing, the current idea that he is completely transcendent of metaphysical parliments entirely untrue. In context the current evidence used for that is actually a statement regarding him having access to elemental parliaments beyond the green.
With that in mind, regarding the nature of the four elemental parliaments and their power, Swamp Thing’s new state as God Swamp Thing is very clearly 1-A. The powers granted to him by the four parliaments were specifically for the purpose of overthrowing the Presence, with the Word, who exists to protect god, agreeing this will come to pass. The Word itself even refused to fight Swamp Thing until John Constantine had used the magic of the Parliament of Flames to strip him of his godhood and turn him into a human, as he had already become equal to God with just 3/4 of the powers of the parliaments. Had Swamp Thing not decided that humanity had potential, he would have removed humanity from existence against the wishes of the presence. Additionally, Tefé, who’s powers are drawn only from the Green and a limited amount of the Red, was able to create a form with the ability to simulate the voice of The Presence to cancel out the word.
In regard to the red, contrary to popular belief, the Post-Crisis Red is not actually a parliament in the same sense as the green, more does it share a dichotomy with it like in Post-flashpoint, but rather is closer to the analogue of the other four parliaments, which govern the elements of the earth, while the Red governs living organisms. The nature of the red is a existence that is The Implicate Order of all living beings who exist, have existed, will ever exist, and could ever exist. The Implicate is the higher plane of reality that is similar to Plato’s Archetypal reality, but deeper and more subtle. The basic idea of the the implicate is that “In the enfolded [or implicate] order, space and time are no longer the dominant factors determining the relationships of dependence or independence of different elements. Rather, an entirely different sort of basic connection of elements is possible, from which our ordinary notions of space and time, along with those of separately existent material particles, are abstracted as forms derived from the deeper order. These ordinary notions in fact appear in what is called the "explicate" or "unfolded" order, which is a special and distinguished form contained within the general totality of all the implicate orders” (Bohm 1980, p. xv), and contains all abstractions humanity has ever contemplated. This is confirmed to be the case for the DC universe as well, as the Red contains the realm of ideas and imagination, where all thought experiments like Maxwell’s Demon and Laplace’s Demon exist, as well as Heaven itself. The Overvoid itself is an example of the implicate, as it is the what all of reality is unfolded from rather than just living creatures. Likely for this reason, the Red exists on a level where all the plot, continuity, and retcons are visible to it as fiction, allowing it to not only reach the Pre-crisis Animal Man who had been consigned to limbo, which exists beyond even the godsphere, but also allowing for reach into the Overvoid itself to see the reader. This puts it in a scaling chain of 1-A, possibly High 1-A, due to reaching into this level as well as possibly exceeding certain writer avatars, who at the very least still have the power over the majority of normal existence due to their writings, such as the book with infinite pages
In regards to Swamp Thing’s connection and scaling to the Red, his god state should be comparable to the state Animal Man reached as the “body of god” through communion with the entirety of existence through the red which allowed him to surpass his previous limitations as an animal master to kill The Spider Queen, who held power over the entirety of the realm of imagination. This is because they are both a communion of the entirety of existence and the universe.
For this reason, God Swamp Thing should likely scale to the same feats as the Red and be the same tier. Animal Man himself is a whole other can of worms for tiering, so that will have to be discussed at a later revision. Also slightly off topic but the word should probably be 1-A as he’s supposed to guard the presence so it would likely make sense for him to be on a similar level to the spectre as he doesn’t seem to have the same restrictions as him either
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