Regarding Mew and Arceus

[Nemo212]

How?

Bar a number of moves they cannot get because they're

A: Not a Starter

B: Can't get due to Game mechanics or Balancing issues

Mew has every move.

Do I need to bring up again how they're different, Dark Void nearly never missed ever but in the game has nearly the same accuracy rating as Fissure and Sheer Cold, only by 20% are they different and this was changed due to purely Balancing from a Pokemon who shouldn't have been able to use the ability (Smeargle)

So... what you're saying is Mew has almost every, but not every move, since it can't learn some tutor moves.

Which is what I'm saying.

You're not hurting my case here. Quite the opposite, really.

 

[NeoZex6399]

We can always add a ""likely"".

 

[Nemo212]

We can always add a ""likely"".

Go on?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Wait, didn't the OP clearly staet what you guys are saying anyway?

 

[Nemo212]

I'm refuting the argument in the OP that the Pokedex isn't referring to Mew's usage of Metronome or Transform.

• Mew cannot use Draco Meteor, except when using Metronome or Transform.
  • Draco Meteor is not an artificial move, an alien move, nor exclusive to Pokemon that predate it.
• Ergo, Mew cannot use every move, except when using Metronome or Transform.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I think the reason Mew doesn't learn Draco Meteor is because the Move Tutor refuses to teach Mew the move.

 

[TriforcePower1]

It's also because it's a man-made move

 

[Nemo212]

It's also because it's a man-made move

It's not. See above posts.

I think the reason Mew doesn't learn Draco Meteor is because the Move Tutor refuses to teach Mew the move.

I don't think there's any sort of Poke-racial discrimination going on here. I think it's more, "only dragons can learn Draco Meteor." If I recall correctly, they just say they can't. Can't, as in, they're not able to. Not won't.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I dont know what point your trying to make here. We're obviously not giving Mew every move no matter how its sliced up since Cal clearly pointed out that there are moves Mew has no access to....

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Programer at GF: Hey, should we go the extra trouble of programing Mew to learn these moves?

Programer at GF #2: Na, who cares anyways?

Boom, case closed. Lore comes first, game mechanics second.

 

[Nemo212]

I dont know what point your trying to make here. We're obviously not giving Mew every move no matter how its sliced up since Cal clearly pointed out that there are moves Mew has no access to....

The real cal howard wrote (in the first sentence of the OP, mind you):
This has to do with the ability to use all moves.
Shifting the goalposts, I see.

 

[Jinsye]

I'm refuting the argument in the OP that the Pokedex isn't referring to Mew's usage of Metronome or Transform.

I still find this logic odd, to say the least.

Why would the Pokedex specifically mention Mew's usage of Metronome/Transform and yet completely ignore it for Pokemon who are much more well known for said move than Mew, such as Clefairy? For Mew, it's kind of just like another move that it can learn.

It's like mentioning Charizard can use Scary Face, kind of makes no sense.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>This has to do with the ability to use all moves

Looks like someone clearly didnt read the rest of Cals, you know, OP...

 

[Nemo212]

I still find this logic odd, to say the least.

Why would the Pokedex specifically mention Mew's usage of Metronome/Transform and yet completely ignore it for Pokemon who are much more well known for said move than Mew, such as Clefairy? For Mew, it's kind of just like another move that it can learn.

It's like mentioning Charizard can use Scary Face, kind of makes no sense.

There's also the likely possibility that the Pokedex isn't referring to Metronome, and is just flat out wrong.

Saying that it's referring to Metronome/Transform is the only way to reconcile the two conflicting pieces of evidence.

It's also worth noting that Mew is the only Pokemon that learns both naturally (there's Smeargle, too, but that's copying techniques, which isn't natural), as well as the only Pokemon besides Ditto (which is an artificial Pokemon) that learns Transform naturally. That might be an explanation.

 

[Overlord775]

Metronome and Traform are DEFINITELLY not what they ment, the first is a thing quite a few other pokemons can do so it wouldn't be unique of Mew, the second it's turning in to the pokemon, so it would be written more along the lines of Ditto's pokedex entry

Draco Meteors is not learnable because the tutor just assumes that a non dragon type pokemon wouldn't be able to learn it, because you know not everybody knows who Mew is, also they are dragon fanaticals and probably wouldn't even listed to the PC if they told them Mew can learn it if the protagonist could talk that is

It's the same thing for Sacred Sword, why would the tutor assume any pokemon beside Keldeo could learn it when he has never heard of one ever ?

@Kukui

No, we don't throw out pokedex entries, it's that the Breeding Mechanic is dumb, stupid and makes no sense

a cat can have it with a wail and a possessed chandelier can make eggs, Kangaskan is born already mother and Dhelmise is already possessing an anchor right out of the egg despite there not being any anchors in the Pokemon Daycare and the pokemon itself being just the algea

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

We do throw out dex entries when they are proven hyperbole though. We've have multiple threads where we've made this the case.

We obviously dont accept things like Kadabra being originally humans or Banette being a living doll despite the shuppet line existing.

 

[Overlord775]

For the Kadabra case, it calls it a "rumor" or a "Theory" and pokemon humans aren't exactly the brightest

also the statement is in the singular, so it could just be a one off thing that resembles what happens in PMD

also, some entries state Banette it's a possesed doll, so it could just be that when evolving Shuppet changes what it posseses from a cloth to a doll

 

[Nemo212]

Metronome and Traform are DEFINITELLY not what they ment, the first is a thing quite a few other pokemons can do so it wouldn't be unique of Mew, the second it's turning in to the pokemon, so it would be written more along the lines of Ditto's pokedex entry
Draco Meteors is not learnable because the tutor just assumes that a non dragon type pokemon wouldn't be able to learn it, because you know not everybody knows who Mew is, also they are dragon fanaticals and probably wouldn't even listed to the PC if they told them Mew can learn it if the protagonist could talk that is

It's the same thing for Sacred Sword, why would the tutor assume any pokemon beside Keldeo could learn it when he has never heard of one ever ?

Mew is the only one that learns both, which is unique to it.

If nobody knows who Mew is, then how come the massage lady knows what it is, and asks if I'd like to give my Mew a massage? Or how the haircut lady knows what it is, and tells me my Mew looks better after its haircut? Or how come the Move Deleter believes me when I tell him that this pink cat thing wants to remember Earthquake? Or how come the Move Tutors at the Batle Frontier believes me when I say I want to teach it <insert ridiculously powerful move here>? Or how come Lyra will make my Mew a little leaf crown out of things it finds on the ground? Or how the Footprint ribbon guy knows what Mew is? Or literally every other instance where a character acknowledges Mew's existence and calls it by its name without you prompting them?

Mew isn't some cryptid that nobody's ever heard of. It's rare, but that's literally just your headcanon, and not only that, but it's a wrong headcanon.

 

[Overlord775]

Heavy speculation to say that is what they mean that when neither are causally using the moves, but taking thema from the surrondings/copy surronding pokemons

You don't ****** need to know what a pokemon is to tell give him a massage or an haircut or give him an item, it LITTERALLY doesn't matter at ALL

They just look at the pokemon and decide what it needs based on their skills and crafts

also it's not the move deleter that makes pokemon remember moves, anyway the Move Reminder says himself to know every move of every pokemon, which for game mechanic reasons includes even pokemons he logically shouldn't know about such as Girarina unless you say the MR is Omniscient or something

Those Move Tutors don't teach stuff that can be learned only by a certain type or singular specific pokemon

Also no, it's waaaaaaaay more likely the trainer just tells them the name, common sense you know

NPC: "Which pokemon would you like a ribbon for"

Trainer: "Mew"

Also no, you are very wrong, Mew is in fact considerable a criptid, it's a legendary creature that barelly nobody ever saw and nobody knows where it is

In fact, legendaries as a whole are canonically shrouded in mystery and only a select few knows stuff much about them

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Regarding masseurs, movement tutors, etc. If the pokemon you introduce to him has a nickname, as far as I can remember they call him by the nickname, not the original name.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Regarding masseurs, movement tutors, etc. If the pokemon you introduce to him has a nickname, as far as I can remember they call him by the nickname, not the original name.

This^

And Im seriously hoping that game mechanic features like haircuts and messages are not seriously being used here....

 

[NeoZex6399]

Mew being able to use any move it is also stated outside the pokedex.

 

[Blahblah9755]

ProfessorKukui4Life wrote

This^

And Im seriously hoping that game mechanic features like haircuts and messages are not seriously being used here....

Clearly the fact that Arceus can get a massage means it's a common well known Pokémon that all masseurs learn the 4D pressure points of

 

[Nemo212]

Alright, I concede. Not going to die on this hill.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Since the Forum change is going to, well, start after today (which means no new CRTs after today will be saved), I think we should wait until the forum change is finished to apply these changes to Mew & Arceus.

Personally, what I think would be better is if we did something like our current Dynamax page. We make a page to list every single Pokemon move and what abilities they'd be in our standards, then we just link the page to Mew and Arceus.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I agree

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

We could title it "Pokemon Abilities" or something like that.

I would want "Pokemon Physiology" but that really wouldnt make much sense lol.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

We could title it "Pokemon Abilities" or something like that.
I would want "Pokemon Physiology" but that really wouldnt make much sense lol.

I can make a sandbox and/or for us to work on it if you want.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Will sandboxes still be fine to do while the forum change is going on?

 

[Blahblah9755]

Yes

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Alrighty, then yeah a Sandbox would be very helpful Zephyros.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:ZephyrosOmega/sandboxPokemon

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:ZephyrosOmega/sandboxPokemo

Thank you good sir.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I updated the Sandbox. It most definitely needs some editing and uncluttering, but its only because I was in a rush to copy+paste.

The sandbox now covers every move from Gen 1 - Gen 7. Including Z-Moves.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Awesome. I handled some of the abilities but i'll cover the rest later.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I was looking at it, and because of the clutter, I missed the "twinkle" in "twinkle tackle". I was very confused why Tackle involved telekinesis, space manipulation and pocket reality manipulation.

 

[Overlord775]

kek

 

[NeoZex6399]

Pretty confusing to read.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Pretty confusing to read.

Its because I was in a big rush as I was busy with other things and I remembered I made a previous list of this for myself in the past. So I thought i'd save a lot of time. ,

It needs a lot of uncluttering and fixing, but at least its a great start to making the page. I even have the moves all ordered in alphabetical order too.