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I swear if Journeys shows us Mew becoming a lake guardian.....
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Regarding Mew and Arceus
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
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- arceus mew (pokémon) pokémon
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Actually, is there a possibility that Mew's transform isn't limited to what he has the DNA of? After all, he should be able to use Ditto's version of the move too. That'd explain him turning into an UB somewhat, if we assume he's somehow seen one already.
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Outlier or straight up bullshit, just like the times Golem has been damaged by electrical attacks.
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Also, something that came to my mind is that many Ultra Beasts have different home worlds; Having DNA from Kartana's home world doesn't mean it has DNA of species from other Ultra Beast Home Worlds. & since Kartana is one of several Ultra Beasts stating it's common in its home world, it's very possible for the DNA to be common there, hence it's presence in Mew.
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The problem though is that this is selectively limiting the scope of what Pokemon DNA Mew gets and it ultimately doesnt make much sense at this point.
At the end of the day, Kartana isnt native to the pokemon world but comes from its own world somewhere in the multiverse via Ultra Space. And if Mew has its DNA, why would it be hard to believe it has the DNA of the other UB's?
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Because a Pokemon that has been to Kartana's world & the main Pokemon world hasn't necessecarily been to other Ultra Beast home worlds.
We haven't seen Mew turn into other UBs, nor go to UB Worlds, IIRC.
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Journey's will still be going on for a while so im fairly sure we'll see Mew become more UBs if it can become Kartana.
And thats the thing. How would Mew be able to have one UB's DNA, and not other UBs, without being able to travel outside the main pokemon world?
And thats the thing. How would Mew be able to have one UB's DNA, and not other UBs, without being able to travel outside the main pokemon world?
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Nonetheless, Mew hasn't become a species of UB other than Kartana yet, & without strong implications or info it will do so, we can't assume it will. Just like we can't use episode previews or game demos, we can't use unreleased content.
Many of the Ultra Beasts have distinct home worlds we are distinctly shown & able to explore. While many of them have an entry that states it's common in its own home world, this does not mean they are common in one anothers' home worlds.
& it could indeed be possible Mew did go to an UB's home world, or was in one.
When UB arrived in the main Pokemon world, Ultra Wormholes appeared. Also, Cosmog (Which has ambiguity about if it & its line are UBs or not.) can open Ultra Wormholes itself. Whether or not Mew can make such portals itself, there is opportunity to travel between worlds by those portals opening.
Also, I forget: Do we consider the worlds UB are from as different universes? (My assumption was that we do, but I want to be sure.)
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And im not seeing why we cant now. Earlier yeah, we couldnt assume this since we couldnt assume Mew had access to DNA from pokemon not native to the main pokemon world. Not without evidence of it anyway.
But now we do have that such evidence. And if it can get the DNA of interdimensional pokemon, it seems rather strange to assume the others wouldn't fall under this either.
I think your missing the point of what im trying to say. If Mews DNA could somehow get access to one interdimesional pokemon species from other worlds in the multiverse, then the other UBs and their worlds shouldnt be any different.
Im pretty sure its commonly accepted that Cosmog is both a legendary and a UB and that it and the light trio originate from Ultra Space.
Yes we do.
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We can't because Kartana is from a visibly different world from other Ultra Beasts. Being to Venus doesn't mean you've been to Neptune.
In theory, it could have DNA of all Pokemon, but if Mew is native to the main Pokemon world, then it having the DNA of Pokemon that never were in the main Pokemon world doesn't make much sense.
& as you mentioned, it's also possible Mew acquired the ability to Transform via the Ditto method; It sees & remembers them, & so, can transform them. So it's possible it observed Kartana. We don't know if it observed other Ultra Beasts.
& of course, there's the possibility of it having encountered an Ultra Wormhole to Kartana's world.
Cosmog was brought up because it's another possible reason going through an Ultra Wormhole is possible. Thank you for this clarification, though.
Thank you for the clarification regarding that, also.
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Thats not really a good comparison since in this case, we're talking about Mews DNA having interdimensional access to random worlds throughout Ultra Space in some manner. Prior to this, we would never assume that because we couldnt prove it. Now we can prove it. And with it having interdimensional access, the more logical assumption at that point would be that the other worlds fall under it. The other UBs arent special anamolies compared to Kartana.
That being said, id be willing to give this the 4-B Zygarde treatment (you know when we waited for Zygarde actually fighting UBs before we gave him 4-B) and hold off until Journeys shows Mew becoming more UBs as more concrete evidence.
See above for this point. Having the DNA of Pokemon from other dimensions now really puts into question on how to handle Mew having Pokemon genes. But like I said, im willing to wait for more stuff to come before giving a final verdict.
Not really. In the episodes while transforming into other pokemon, its simutaneously brought up from both scientists like Oak and the narrator that Mew becomes the pokemon because of it having the genes of all Pokemon.
Plus, Mews transformation abilities dont run off the same principle as the Ditto line, and as such, dont have their limitations. Mew transorms into a plethora of mon fairly easily so I doubt its doing it via observing other mon. Especially ones that, until now, we would never consider Mew ever seeing in the first place.
This is very unlikely given that Ultra Wormholes mainly only happen in Alola, and Mews never been to Alola or in Gen 7.
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Maybe it's not an ideal comparison, but the point is having been to the world of one UB doesn't mean you have been to the world of another, & we have reasoning for how Mew could've gotten there independent of its own power.
I can't completely agree with you here; I don't think we can currently conclusively prove the interdimensional access.
We have seen a Mew turn into an Ultra Beast. But that doesn't mean other explanations (Transform from memory, was in a world where Kartana was, acquired Kartana DNA, such as in a battle.) aren't possible, & we aren't told WHY this Mew can turn into Kartana.
I feel like if there are 3 other possible explanations, calling it proof is ambiguous.
Having the DNA of one Pokemon from another world =/= Having the DNA of all Pokemon from all worlds, or even all worlds of a specific kind.
(Also, Nihilego, Stakataka & Blacephalon aren't described in entries as being common in their worlds.)
I feel that might be a reasonable option. I feel that we lack more/sufficient proof.
See above for this point. Having the ability to transform into 1 other Pokemon from another dimension now really puts into question on how to handle Mew having Pokemon genes.
(& like you earlier, & recently, I also implied of myself, I'm willing to wait for more stuff to come before giving a final verdict. No offense meant.)
This sounds like an atypical use of Transform. I don't necessarily oppose it on those grounds, but it may be unintuitive. I feel scans of the content you mentioned should be provided for clarity for users. It'd especially be nice to have on a profile, I'd presume.
For profile content, especially, scans of statements (if possible.) would also be valuable for the explanation of this atypical function of Mew's variety of the move Transform. As said, it could be doing via memory after observation.
Also, if UBs are 'mons "we would never consider Mew ever seeing in the first place", why assume it would Transform into them?
Also, there have been events, even in the anime, where UBs came to the main Pokemon world, & there are also Ultra Wormholes, which tend to be big, & in some cases, have weather phenomenons surrounding them, no? Such events would be noticeable.
It's not entirely out of the question Mew could have observed the Pokemon involved.
"In The Crown Tundra DLC for Pokémon Sword and Shield, it is revealed by Peonia that a SolgaleoSw/LunalaSh arrived at the Max Lair through an Ultra Wormhole. This later causes multiple Dynamax Legendary Pokémon to arrive from the Ultra Wormhole and make their home in the Max Lair. After obtaining the Legendary Clue?, Necrozma appears and opens up an Ultra Wormhole above the Crown Tundra, causing Dynamax Ultra Beasts to invade the Max Lair."
Ultra Wormhole - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia
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- Thread starter
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Mew should be limited by predating Pokemon and manmade Pokémon. Alien Pokémon should be fine now. Granted, it probably always has given Starmie and Clefairy.
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I agree with YuriAkuto, AP via DNA is a huge no, but the powers and transformation into them is fine.
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Why do you feel so, despite that we have no idea how Mew gained the ability to turn into Kartana, it's currently just the one Ultra Beast, there are other possible explanations than it being a product of Mew's DNA, & being able to turn into one Pokemon from another world doesn't mean being able to turn into another?
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And what about Llamagod?
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He should still get everything like before
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I see
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We're still discussing a bit but basically Mew will get every single move with the exception of a few signature moves, and now he will become able to transform into 4-B legendaries as he's shown that ability a few times. The points of discussion about him are whether we should consider him able to transform into all Ultra Beasts, and whether he should be able to transform into Darkrai and Cresselia, that descend from him, and are 2-B. As for Arceus, I think everyone agrees that he should have every ability and move.
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bump
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Leaving Mew aside, should we now update Arceus?
It’s pretty much unanimous that he gets all abilities.
It’s pretty much unanimous that he gets all abilities.
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Arceus' profile is going to get much bigger after this...
We should also add the level moves to the god-tiers once and for all tbh
We should also add the level moves to the god-tiers once and for all tbh
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I’m good with that
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yeah sort of do something like Yhwach has except he will always have them in fights
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Yea something like that.
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Bump
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Bump
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I think the Arceus profile should have two keys, one for the llama and one for the original spirit.
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Used to have that, but it was removed from them and the rest of the Sinnoh Creation legends because it only had a difference of two Abilities.
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Now it should be added because of Arceus having everything in pokemon also we could finally have Arceus matches without him being too big with his Arceus key
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I don’t think it should just apply to the OS since we’ve seen Arceus bust out some of these random moves and abilities, which would imply he has all the abilities too
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But the original spirit has things that the physical form obviously does not have, such as being omnipresent.
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Of course. My point was moreso that the “all abilities” key from Pokémon and peoples abilities doesn’t seem to be limited
to the OS.
Barring obvious exceptions like omnipresence, the abilities should apply to both the way I see it.
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I don't think Arceus should have abilities because they are mostly passive and are never shown by it but it should have all moves
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The OS could, considering what it is.
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We usually allow the use of all moves as long as the character has at least used some of them.
Which I think Arceus qualifies for since he’s used the CT’s powers and he randomly busts out different moves that he doesn’t learn in-game wise.
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He means abilities as the passive thing pkmn have, not the moves
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