Regarding Mew and Arceus

[Garchomp777]

Kukui not everything isn't PIS, the feats of Arecus movie of being overwhelmed by the meteor/Pikachu/Silver Water are PIS, because they don't match up with Arecus' awakening causing Universes to clash and who it beat up the Universal Creation Trio.

The fact that Dark Matter's hax affected it isn't PIS for those reasons as it doesn't contradict any previous feats. Just because its the creator doesn't make it immune to Dark Matter's hax.

Silver water is arceus' weakness so it probably aint PIS. Also is everyone just gonna ignore Mew? He really needs the upgrade

I don't need to because that's not exactly an argument in the first place.

Petrification is not AP, it is hax. So that already throws the argument out. And you ignore the fact that Arceus is able to nullify (and as determined in this very thread, possess) all Pokemon abilities, so it kinda makes very little sense for him to magically be affected by said powers in this one single instance of Dark Matter doing anything to him.

Which again, is very easy PIS as much as it is for the protagonists to go through the trouble of stopping him despite God being in their presence.

Arceus was erased by Yveltal and sent to the void, and pokemon can just grow stronger and surpass their creator. And dark matter and yveltal are just powerful enough to bypass the power null

 

[Everything12]

While I agree that Dark Matter petrfiying Arceus is hax and shouldn't scale it to Arceus. The Plates nullfy Pokémon abilities through their powers over types, Dark Matter is not a Pokémon and doesn't have a type, so the Plates wouldn't help.

Edit: It wasn't Yveltal who pertfyed Arceus it was Dark Matter Garchomp.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Or maybe Dark Matter is just stronger and his negate all doesn’t work...?

Stronger with 0 feats saying so?

I think you’re forgetting the very concept of scaling Hax.

And this matters because?

 

[Udlmaster]

Stronger with 0 feats saying so?

And this matters because?

This feat, the feat in question is the feat.

Your claim of PIS would demand it leads to a contradiction, that it is impossible for it to exist, but I've just shown how it can exist without any contradictions.

You just seem to have very faulty logic.

 

[Everything12]

Udlmaster, the petrification is pretty explicitly Hax, it shouldn't scale to AP without any other feats to back it up.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

While I agree that Dark Matter petrfiying Arceus is hax and shouldn't scale it to Arceus. The Plates nullfy Pokémon abilities through their posers over types, Dark Matter is not a Pokémon and doesn't have a type, so the Plates wouldn't help.

Considering that petrification in-verse has been shown to be included within Pokemon abilities, this shouldn't be an exception.

Especially when Arceus is the creator of everything and said everything is kinda part of him. Type or not, it shouldn't be magically not within his dominion of what he governs.

 

[Garchomp777]

Yes, you would need proof of it being PIS.

Udlmaster, the petrification is pretty explicitly Hax, it shouldn't scale to AP without any other feats to back it up.

I'll try finding scans to see what actually happened. Does anyone have the text dump for SMD

 

[Everything12]

I mean Uldmaster posted a video of what happened, Dark Matter released a wave of dark energy that petrified every Pokémon including Arceus. It does affect Arceus, but it doesn't scale to its AP or have any feats of affecting the OS.

Also if Arceus is immune to petrification, such as Mew+Mewtwo's/Yveltal's, that just means Dark Matters has a higher potency that can affect it.

 

[deonment]

Silver water is arceus' weakness so it probably aint PIS

it weakening him to the point of him getting beat down by regular mons is

 

[Everything12]

Let's not talk off-topic about Silver Water, especially as once Arceus got all its Plates it easily dealt with the water.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Silver water is arceus' weakness so it probably aint PIS.

It's not a weakness. It was used against Arceus in combination with electric mons attacking him without the plates that negate the latter moves.

And considering Arceus walked that off almost immediately after getting the JoL back and even erased the silver water, it's clear that its nothing special to him.

Arceus was erased by Yveltal and sent to the void, and pokemon can just grow stronger and surpass their creator. And dark matter and yveltal are just powerful enough to bypass the power null

"Can just grow stronger" is a copout with next to nothing to actually support that. If the literal creators of everything in the verse had no chance of surpassing even a weakened Arceus, what makes you think this small tidbit of what Dark Matter did somehow means he and Yveltal can?

This feat, the feat in question is the feat.

Which isn't AP.

Your claim of PIS would demand it leads to a contradiction, that it is impossible for it to exist, but I've just shown how it can exist without any contradictions.

Power null takes care of it.

Plus, if your going to go as far as to say this is somehow legit, you might as well say the protagonists in the game are stronger than him for them being the ones to take care of DM instead of Arceus. But im sure you wouldn't go as far as that now would you?

You just seem to have very faulty logic.

No, what the issue is here is taking one extremely self contained instance of DM doing something to Arceus and magically taking that to be somehow legit compared to all of the PIS and inconsistent instances that have been struck against Arceus and have been denied as well for being nonsensical. And this shouldn't be any different.

Either way, as said before, this is extreme derailing to what this thread is. And until you make a thread specifically for this to get it accepted, it's not going anywhere.

 

[Garchomp777]

So can we add all abilities to mew? Does anyone here have a list?

"Can just grow stronger" is a copout with next to nothing to actually support that. If the literal creators of everything in the verse had no chance of surpassing even a weakened Arceus, what makes you think this small tidbit of what Dark Matter did somehow means he and Yveltal can?

It just means certain pokemon have the ability to grow stronger than the creation trio, as shown in the manga, melmetal, kyurem

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

While I agree that Dark Matter petrfiying Arceus is hax and shouldn't scale it to Arceus. The Plates nullfy Pokémon abilities through their powers over types, Dark Matter is not a Pokémon and doesn't have a type, so the Plates wouldn't help.

By the way, to respond to this, Arceus's movie and the Hoopa movie has blatantly established that the Plates's elemental abilities are not strictly limited to types (which im pretty sure is already treated as actual natural elements?)

-Jewel of Life made an entire region fertile for crops to grow

-Hoopa movie established Arceus's Fire, Water and Ground plates as the three forces of nature, which Ghris used to create Hoopa's Prison Bottle

So if you go off that, that confirms the plates's power isn't limited to typing anyway.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So can we add all abilities to mew? Does anyone here have a list?

It just means certain pokemon have the ability to grow stronger than the creation trio, as shown in the manga, melmetal, kyurem

Very bad premise considering Kyurem's only "evidence" is a statement with 0 feats remotely close to their level.

 

[Garchomp777]

Very bad premise considering Kyurem's only "evidence" is a statement with 0 feats remotely close to their level.

A statement is enough, and theres another one for zekrom and reshiram being the strongest dragon types

 

[Udlmaster]

Udlmaster, the petrification is pretty explicitly Hax, it shouldn't scale to AP without any other feats to back it up.

Btw, it not affecting OS.

Being turned to Stone actually Erases your spirit to the Voidlands, stated more clearly here, or in the Japanese version, to make my point very clear: "World of Nothingness".

Dark Matter himself says that he will turn all Life "To the Void".

So, yeah, it seems that OS was actually effected due to what the Stone does.

 

[Garchomp777]

Where was it stated to erase your spirit?

 

[Everything12]

All I have to say is that statements of this or that Pokémon being the strongest whatever does not scale them to the Creation Trio, and this site does not accept such statements without any feats to back them up.

Pretty sure that without proof it's more logical to assume it's talking about the Lake Trio's Spirit (Soul) then the Original Spirit's one without further evidence to prove such a claim.

 

[Garchomp777]

I see

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

A statement is enough, and theres another one for zekrom and reshiram being the strongest dragon types

Uh, without actual feats cementing that, no it definitely isn't.

 

[Udlmaster]

Where was it stated to erase your spirit?

Your spirit is sent to the World of Nothingness, which is Nothingness.

 

[Udlmaster]

All I have to say is that statements of this or that Pokémon being the strongest whatever does not scale them to the Creation Trio, and this site does not accept such statements without any feats to back them up.

Pretty sure that without proof it's more logical to assume it's talking about the Lake Trio's Spirit (Soul) then the Original Spirit's one without further evidence to prove such a claim.

Why is it more logical?

 

[Everything12]

I'm going to bed soon, so I guess I'll do what I probably should have done earlier before I was pulled into this debate.

No more derailing, regardless of how dead this topic is, this is off-topic and should be taking to a separate thread where it can be evaluated properly.

 

[theultimate5105]

Btw, it not affecting OS.

Being turned to Stone actually Erases your spirit to the Voidlands, stated more clearly here, or in the Japanese version, to make my point very clear: "World of Nothingness".

Dark Matter himself says that he will turn all Life "To the Void".

So, yeah, it seems that OS was actually effected due to what the Stone does.

Why would erasing a soul effect arceus who doesn’t even have one

 

[Garchomp777]

So back to topic. Mew should have all the abilities except for the tutor moves, a few legendaries from sinnoh, etc. Does anyone here have a list? Are we gonna add them to the profile like we did to Regidrago?

 

[Overlord775]

Dark Matter affecting Arceus is utter PIS

Dark Matter is a being comprised only of negative emotions, while Arceus is both the creator and source of Emotions period since it created Meprit from it's body, so the former affecting it makes absolutely no sense lore-wise and should be discarded

 

[Garchomp777]

Dark Matter affecting Arceus is utter PIS

Dark Matter is a being comprised only of negative emotions, while Arceus is both the creator and source of Emotions period since it created Meprit from it's body, so the former affecting it makes asolutely no sense lore-wise and should be discarded

Hoopa doesn't embody anything and has better mindhax than the lake trio who embody their respective emotions. And dark matter can embody negativity but still be stronger than emotions itself. Moltres embodies fire and theres fire legendaries stronger than it. Solgaleo is the sun incarnate but stronger than the sun. Thats not a valid counter argument. But you should respond in the other arceus thread, not here, because we supposed to talk about Mew here

So again, is Mew gonna get all pokemon moves????

 

[Overlord775]

Hoopa doesn't embody anything and has better mindhax than the lake trio who embody their respective emotions.

Hoopa is his own thing, probably related to hyperspace or some shit

And dark matter can embody negativity but still be stronger than emotions itself.

Non consequitor

also it can't because it iitterally be Negativity > Negativity + every other emotion, which is nonsense

Moltres embodies fire and theres fire legendaries stronger than it. Solgaleo is the sun incarnate but stronger than the sun.

Neither of those are true, as neither are called the embodiment of either fire or the sun, nor even hinted to be

But you should respond in the other arceus thread, not here, because we supposed to talk about Mew here

it very much seems to me people are talking about Arceus here

So again, is Mew gonna get all pokemon moves????

The pokedex litterally says it does, so it should be the case

 

[Garchomp777]

Hoopa is his own thing, probably related to hyperspace or some shit


Non consequitor

also it can't because it iitterally be Negativity > Negativity + every other emotion, which is nonsense


Neither of those are true, as neither are called the embodiment of either fire or the sun, nor even hinted to be


it very much seems to me people are talking about Arceus here


The pokedex litterally says it does, so it should be the case

Dark matter is also his own thing, he's just strong af. You can literally be the embodiment of negativity but be stronger than negativity itself as well. Moltres was referred to as the embodiment of fire by peony

 

[Overlord775]

Dark matter is also his own thing, he's just strong af. You can literally be the embodiment of negativity but be stronger than negativity itself as well. Moltres was referred to as the embodiment of fire by peony

false equalacy, Hoopa gets his powers from who damn knows meanwhile Dark Matters gets his from negative emotions

you can't be stronger than yourself

and ah yes, dadjoke the character, most reliable source around. Anyway, embodiment doesn't always mean concept sheninigans.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Dark Matter affecting Arceus is utter PIS

Dark Matter is a being comprised only of negative emotions, while Arceus is both the creator and source of Emotions period since it created Meprit from it's body, so the former affecting it makes absolutely no sense lore-wise and should be discarded

I actually can’t believe I forgot about this. Especially since the concept of emotions would be apart of Arceus as well.

Sooo yeah. Definite utter PIS.

 

[Garchomp777]

Sooo is anyone willing to make a list of abilities that mew is gonna get

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

So, will this give us 2-B Mew?

 

[Garchomp777]

So, will this give us 2-B Mew?

Everybody gangsta until Mew transforms into arceus
For real though, is anyone here gonna grab a list of abilities that Mew should have? We should prioritise the ones from the pokemon we've seen Mew transform into, because there's solid evidence of Mew using them in character