Regarding Mew and Arceus

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

He means abilities as the passive thing pkmn have, not the moves

Ahhh. Then in that case, im fine with the OS getting them.

I thought Neo was talking about the moves, apologies.

 

[theultimate5105]

Yeah OS abilities+moves Arceus moves
I am also guessing OS will get stuff That is neither abilities or moves like eternatus powernull

 

[Cropfist]

How much is actually known about the original spirit?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah OS abilities+moves Arceus moves
I am also guessing OS will get stuff That is neither abilities or moves like eternatus powernull

Speaking of this, shouldn’t the Creation Trio (and arceus) honestly get Dynamax too?

Other than the fact that the CT now exist in Gen 8, Dynamaxing comes from space-time distortions. Which should apply to these guys for being what causes it in the first place.

 

[NeoZex6399]

bump

 

[NeoZex6399]

bump

 

[theultimate5105]

Speaking of this, shouldn’t the Creation Trio (and arceus) honestly get Dynamax too?

Other than the fact that the CT now exist in Gen 8, Dynamaxing comes from space-time distortions. Which should apply to these guys for being what causes it in the first place.

I mean its pretty obvious they should get it we even see the creation trio do it

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

bump

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

bump

 

[Udlmaster]

I've actually been looking into some of the stories for Pokemon and actually do think that Arceus may not be the strongest pokemon there is.

Firstly, there was the case where Arceus literally got negged along with all other Pokemon on the Planet, along with big names like Reshiram and Zekrom and others.

And this isn't a case of "Well, maybe they don't mean Arceus when they say "All"" but they literally show Arceus along with Mega Mewtwo X.

By none other than Yveltol.

Now, you might say "Well, we don't see Arceus getting negged, maybe they just left Arceus alone.", however, they later show Arceus getting hit by an blast that turns them to stone.

This Dark Matter boss directly scales back to Yveltol, as he was able to damage him.

So, low key, Arceus doesn't really seem like they're the strongest Pokemon, and we've really known that for a long time, for a while, Gamefreak themselves have been claiming other Pokemon are the strongest after Arceus' release like Urshifu recently.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Sick, 2-B Yveltal

 

[Everything12]

That really doesn't mean much, it just shows that Arceus was one of the beings who heard Yveltal's procalmation. Does Yveltal have any feats to back up the claim that they were a danger to Arceus?

 

[Thelastmlg]

Sounds like pis to me tbh, and it would only apply to his avatar anyway, plus he lacks resistance to those hax, it is not AP, his avatar is at least 2-C with downplay while yveltal is, what, high 3-A at best?

Arceus role is literally being the creator of everything, gamefreak is just contradicting their own lore, ESPECIALLY urshifu, it is not even a mythical, and at best embodies rage if literal, AKA an aspect of mesprit, who's an aspect of arceus.

 

[theultimate5105]

Yeah no that’s just dark matters hax which has no anti feats Dark matter is also special since he is dependent on a concept

 

[Garchomp777]

Sounds like pis to me tbh, and it would only apply to his avatar anyway, plus he lacks resistance to those hax, it is not AP, his avatar is at least 2-C with downplay while yveltal is, what, high 3-A at best?

Arceus role is literally being the creator of everything, gamefreak is just contradicting their own lore, ESPECIALLY urshifu, it is not even a mythical, and at best embodies rage if literal, AKA an aspect of mesprit, who's an aspect of arceus.

You can be the creator of all things but still get surpassed, and I do agree with Arceus being not even close to being the strongest Pokemon, theres a huge amount of evidence

 

[deonment]

hax doesnt care about what tier you are, that is the point of hax

 

[Thelastmlg]

You can, but not when the character in question doesn't even scale anywhere close to you, plus it being hax.

 

[Everything12]

Dark Matter was born from the negative emotions of all Pokémon (no clue if this extends to the Sinnoh legends and other Universes), so it's not a Pokémon and is outside the norm of the Pokéverse's regular characters. Meanwhile, Yeltal doesn't any actual feats, only the fact that Arceus is shown listening to its threat.

The Creation Trio who are pretty much always shown to be more powerful then pretty much every other Pokémon they face are constantly shown as weaker then Arceus and Hoopa who pretty much ate every other legend for lunch were defeated by a human wielding a portion of Arceus' power.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Are we seriously having this talk about Arceus not being the strongest?

Just...no. This is huge derailing to this threads purpose for one, and that is never going to get accepted here anyway. Lets drop this please.

 

[Udlmaster]

That really doesn't mean much, it just shows that Arceus was one of the beings who heard Yveltal's procalmation. Does Yveltal have any feats to back up the claim that they were a danger to Arceus?

I think you should check out the other 3/4 of my argument.

I actually already talked about this in the original post where it shows Arceus being getting turned to stone by Dark Matter and then Dark Matter getting hurt by Yveltol

 

[Garchomp777]

Dark Matter was born from the negative emotions of all Pokémon (no clue if this extends to the Sinnoh legends and other Universes), so it's not a Pokémon and is outside the norm of the Pokéverse's regular characters. Meanwhile, Yeltal doesn't any actual feats, only the fact that Arceus is shown listening to its threat.

The Creation Trio who are pretty much always shown to be more powerful then pretty much every other Pokémon they face are constantly shown as weaker then Arceus and Hoopa who pretty much ate every other legend for lunch were defeated by a human wielding a portion of Arceus' power.

The creation trio are portrayed as being weaker than a lot of legendaries for some odd reason in the manga, some games. But yes, I do think we should talk about it in another thread, not here

Lets get back on topic, so is Mew gonna get an upgrade like regidrago? With like, all abilities?

 

[Udlmaster]

Are we seriously having this talk about Arceus not being the strongest?

Just...no. This is huge derailing to this threads purpose for one, and that is never going to get accepted here anyway. Lets drop this please.

Not really derailing since the thread was mostly inactive for a long while.

And silencing the argument is very suspect, with the caviat of “it won’t be accepted” is not a very good look.

 

[Everything12]

So Arceus, not the Original Spirit, was affected by Dark Matter's Hax. Thats not an AP feat.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im only speaking what the end result will be, especially when the basis to this derailing argument is using a PIS.

Again, lets just stick to the topic at hand please. We need to give Mew and Arceus the accepted abilities from this.

 

[Garchomp777]

Won't that grant immortality negation for Yveltal and Dark Matter? Also IIRC it was the original spirit who was affected, but I'll have to check

But can we just make another thread for those arguments please? Mew really needs some upgrades

 

[Udlmaster]

Im only speaking what the end result will be, especially when the basis to this derailing argument is using a PIS.

Again, lets just stick to the topic at hand please. We need to give Mew and Arceus the accepted abilities from this.

How would it be PIS?

it seems your working backwards from Arceus being the strongest and then claiming the opposition cannot be correct.

the evidence is there, the feats are there, it’s very weird to just throw around PIS

 

[Garchomp777]

How would it be PIS?

it seems your working backwards from Arceus being the strongest and then claiming the opposition cannot be correct.

the evidence is there, the feats are there, it’s very weird to just throw around PIS

Let's talk about it in another thread, we talk about Mew and it getting all moves here

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

How would it be PIS?

Because it would be very ridiculous to look at an instance at the very creator of everything in the verse's cosmology who has taken much worse than this and think it is a legitimate instance of Arceus being inferior.

Again, leave this out of the thread please. This is not the thread for it and if you want this to go anywhere at all, make your own thread for this.

 

[Udlmaster]

Let's talk about it in another thread, we talk about Mew and it getting all moves here

This thread has been dead for like over a week, last comment that wasn’t a bump was 12th.

 

[Udlmaster]

Because it would be very ridiculous to look at an instance at the very creator of everything in the verse's cosmology who has taken much worse than this and think it is a legitimate instance of Arceus being inferior.

Again, leave this out of the thread please. This is not the thread for it and if you want this to go anywhere at all, make your own thread for this.

So you just admitted you’re working backwards from the idea Arceus is the strongest.

I don’t think you grasp the concept that Creator Deities can be weaker than their creations, this is like an entire trope with Evil God fictions.

 

[Everything12]

No, why would it? Yveltal never affected Arceus, not even with its Hax. That was Dark Matter and just because Yveltal did minor damage to Dark Matter does not mean we scale its hax to it.

And no it wasn't the Original Spirit affected, the OS is an Abstract Spirit that exists inside all people and Pokémon, what you saw being turned to stone was its physical Arceus avatar. (Also that isn't Immortality negation, it didn't prevent the OS from creating another avatar, it just didn't do so)

 

[Garchomp777]

This thread has been dead for like over a week, last comment that wasn’t a bump was 12th.

And that's exactly why we need to get back on topic quick, I can make a thread later today on why I think Arceus isnt even top 10
So, does everyone agree with Mew getting pretty much all Pokemon abilities? Outside of the ones it obviously won't get, like some tutor only moves, arceus', etc

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So you just admitted you’re working backwards from the idea Arceus is the strongest.

Maybe that's because he actually, you know, is? And Dark Matter doesn't have a shred of anything to overcome that besides one remote instance of using petrification hax?

I don’t think you grasp the concept that Creator Deities can be weaker than their creations, this is like an entire trope with Evil God fictions.

Then its a good thing that isn't remotely the case here.

 

[Udlmaster]

No, why would it? Yveltal never affected Arceus, not even with its Hax. That was Dark Matter and just because Yveltal did minor damage to Dark Matter does not mean we scale its hax to it.

And no it wasn't the Original Spirit affected, the OS is an Abstract Spirit that exists inside all people and Pokémon, what you saw being turned to stone was its physical Arceus avatar. (Also that isn't Immortality negation, it didn't prevent the OS from creating another avatar, it just didn't do so)

Said Physical avatar directly scales to and above the Creation Trio, it’s very weird you’re grasping for Original One when the Physical manifestation itself would and does get the job done just fine.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And that's exactly why we need to get back on topic quick, I can make a thread later today on why I think Arceus isnt even top 10

And that isn't going to get accepted by anyone here, so you'd be wasting your time. Especially since you've been warned time and time again to stop attempting at getting inflated upgrades for Pokemon accepted.

 

[Udlmaster]

Maybe that's because he actually, you know, is? And Dark Matter doesn't have a shred of anything to overcome that besides one remote instance of using petrification hax?

Then its a good thing that isn't remotely the case here.

I mean, I’ve already addressed everything you’ve said, your just repeating yourself and saying “Nuh uhhh!” While plugging your ears.

try for a new argument.

 

[Everything12]

Kukui not everything is PIS; the feats of Arecus movie of being overwhelmed by the meteor/Pikachu/Silver Water are PIS, because they don't match up with Arecus' awakening causing Universes to clash and who it beat up the Universal Creation Trio.

The fact that Dark Matter's hax affected it isn't PIS for those reasons as it doesn't contradict any previous feats. Just because it the creator doesn't make it immune to Dark Matter's hax.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure what you are referring to by that quote of mine by refiring the Creation Trio and the Original One working just fine. I think we might have got that part mixed up as I was responding to multiple posts with that one post?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I don't need to because that's not exactly an argument in the first place.

Petrification is not AP, it is hax. So that already throws the argument out. And you ignore the fact that Arceus is able to nullify (and as determined in this very thread, possess) all Pokemon abilities, so it kinda makes very little sense for him to magically be affected by said powers in this one single instance of Dark Matter doing anything to him.

Which again, is very easy PIS as much as it is for the protagonists to go through the trouble of stopping him despite God being in their presence.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Kukui not everything is PIS; the feats of Arecus movie of being overwhelmed by the meteor/Pikachu/Silver Water are PIS, because they don't match up with Arecus' awakening causing Universes to clash and who it beat up the Universal Creation Trio.

The fact that Dark Matter's hax affected it isn't PIS for those reasons as it doesn't contradict any previous feats. Just because it the creator doesn't make it immune to Dark Matter's hax.

Correct, not everything is PIS, but I never said everything is PIS. Im saying this particular instance is.

Unless of course Arceus's power nulling everything magically became a forgotten concept.

 

[Udlmaster]

Correct, not everything is PIS, but I never said everything is PIS. Im saying this particular instance is.

Unless of course Arceus's power nulling everything magically became a forgotten concept.

Or maybe Dark Matter is just stronger and his negate all doesn’t work...?

I think you’re forgetting the very concept of scaling Hax.