Red Wings vs Divine Substitutes

[Phoenks]

Corrin matchup time! Featuring a team battle royale.

Red Wings Adventurer's Guild VS Divine Substitutes

Things to Keep in Mind:

• Both teams use the same power source, Aether, so their abilities will interact with each other no differently than usual. Ryn can appraise the Substitutes' abilities, Morokar can devour their souls with a kill, etc.
• The Aetheric Physiology of the Red Wings allows them to strike the spectral forms of Wraiths.
• Melissa's Star Aether means that She (and by extension the Divine Substitutes through her War Cry) can equalize her stats to the physicality of the Red Wings.
• Speed is equalized.
• Both teams have one hour of prep time.
• Red Wings second key.
• Fight takes place in New York. Both sides start at opposite edges of central park and are pre-debriefed on the general layout of NYC

Match Theme:

 

[DMUA]

Even considering Melissa, Ryn's info analysis should be more than enough to just outright determine "Oh, they aren't actually on our level, it's just that one angry girl with the fire for a neck boosting them up", if they don't figure that out from just observing on a normal level

That provides a massive weakness for the team to exploit, and even if Ryn isn't the leader, I can't imagine that the actual leader would just turn his brain off and go "actually just 1v1 each of them individually, lol" as opposed to "focus the single person keeping their team from having their bones pulverized in seconds"

Granted, they don't have telepathic communications and would have to say that much in open air, leading everyone else to play defensive with Melissa, but that's still ultimately going to result in Melissa being relentlessly hit with artillery and probably having to be kept in a barrier, while her allies have to struggle to defend themselves from whatever ends up squaring off against them. And even then, Melissa is noted to have a bit of a problem with being babied (Not one that prevents her from following orders in a fight, but something that could test her patience and lead to mistakes being made in a situation where she has to constantly maintain buffs or her team outright loses...)

The Red Wings also seem to generally have a lot more wacky tricks up their sleeve (The one dude who can just cover the entire battlefield in cursed energy that sucks away people's powers, one of them can just shoot a water beam from their eyes that completely disables barriers and whatnot that were mentioned earlier, list goes on) while the substitutes mostly just mix up the grand idea of hurting someone badly. The most game changing thing I can imagine is Morokar's thralls, but in general they're fairly crippled in terms of fighting capabilities. Melissa's amplification could mitigate that, but I can't imagine they'd hold out very long trying to boost the literal hundreds of dudes they have at their disposal (And even then, without Morokar explicitly directing them, they're not very skilled, just charging and hitting whatever direction he points them towards, so they're ultimately more of a stamina sink and a distraction that might be able to keep some heat off of Melissa)

Obviously things could swing wildly depending on the outcomes of individual matchups, but overall team logistics (including how the Red Wings have more dudes, which I didn't even notice until writing this very last part) just swing it pretty clearly in one direction, and it'd be an uphill battle to correct that without any noticeable ability or skill edges on the side of the substitutes

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I think there are two things to note that DMUA missed:

1: half of Red Wings is either summoned creatures or irreplaceable constructs, which limits them noticeably. Only with all of Soichiro's summons active do they have a numbers advantage, and even then

2: Morokar's summons are likely being buffed by Melissa. This is something pointed out but not really considered in-depth. Considering that they would be comparable to Red Wings, only a dozen or so at once need to be active at once to keep the pressure going. This puts the numbers advantage squarely in the Substitute's field, as it allows him to essentially indefinitely trickle his forces back into the field, although it is contingent on Morokar being alive, but killing him is a task in and of itself. And this isn't even bringing up Quasar Girl, who could easily be loaded with Silver to buff everyone along with Melissa.

As for individual matchups, I won't claim to notice everything but a few stick out to me:

1. Grandis vs Rynild. Hex Bolt is a pretty hard counter to his entire kit, as well as the two constructs that almost even the numbers game. Grandis also has some of the best range on the Substitute side due to having an energy-based sniper rifle, allowing him to better deal with the two constructs.
2. Jack vs Hammond. Jack's combination of ranged attacks and said attacks not actually imparting any kinetic energy afaik means that all that Hammond can really do is try to avoid being focused on, as he has no counter.
3. Morokar vs Soichiro. Fairly obvious as to why this is here. The demons are only working to help Red Wings until they die, and then it just pushes them further into a corner.

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

Horizon's clones... when amped by Melissa, would they still die in one hit? Just wonderin.

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

RWAG FRA

 

[Jackythejack]

I will say that the substitutes probably have a pretty big numbers advantage in the long run, with Morokar's thralls and Melissa's creatures. All of them being buffed to the level of these guys is pretty good. The only problem is Melissa is going to want to be a front line fighter at some pooint which is bad for your support. She likes to play Combat Medic.

I think it's just a question of if superior numbers are capable of winning the day before Melissa starts getting antsy. If we consider this being the end of the Nevada arc Melissa would have at least 14 little beasties with her (like 12 Nightstalkers, Mastodon and Hendrix) and with her whip she can make them stronger and more aggressive.

 

[Smashtwig]

As for individual matchups, I won't claim to notice everything but a few stick out to me:

1. Grandis vs Rynild. Hex Bolt is a pretty hard counter to his entire kit, as well as the two constructs that almost even the numbers game. Grandis also has some of the best range on the Substitute side due to having an energy-based sniper rifle, allowing him to better deal with the two constructs.
2. Jack vs Hammond. Jack's combination of ranged attacks and said attacks not actually imparting any kinetic energy afaik means that all that Hammond can really do is try to avoid being focused on, as he has no counter.
3. Morokar vs Soichiro. Fairly obvious as to why this is here. The demons are only working to help Red Wings until they die, and then it just pushes them further into a corner.

i guess I will participate this time for once

wouldn’t this point be moot due to teamwork? If one team notices their member isn’t doing too great against another, would they not do something like switch it up? Do the Substitutes have ways of forcing these matchups to happen?

 

[DMUA]

Not particularly

Jack vs Hammond. Jack's combination of ranged attacks and said attacks not actually imparting any kinetic energy afaik means that all that Hammond can really do is try to avoid being focused on, as he has no counter.

This is probably true for sword magic and light projectiles since neither of them have mass, but that still prevents him from really hitting them with his sword. Sure, it's likely viable for him to just step back and slowly whittle them down with attacks, but there's nothing saying that Hammond has to keep engaging Jack when he's at a clear disadvantage of being unable to really directly fight

Aetheric defenses also substantially lessen Grandis' effectiveness, even if Hex Bolts are kinda crazy (In the most recent fight/race he was in, every single use of it caused one of the cars to have something catastrophic happen to them, engine failures, tires popping, all kinds of mayhem like that)