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Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse
- Thread starter OppaiSenpai5
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- record of ragnarok
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He moved the earth and moon to create daytime/night I believe.
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Can you so me the scans?
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I believe it was posted earlier in the thread.
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Heimdall is in the middle of introducing Shiva at the start of Chapter 8, he gets interrupted by Hermes entering the arena with Geir commenting on why it became dark all of a sudden and two panels showing a full moon, the moon being the focus of one of them while the other is just in the background.
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I will toss in another two cents and say I would not place Zeus and Adam as 2-C. Their stuff still feels like hype statements rather than tiering evidence, and Poseidon and Heracles are both described as being comparable to Zeus so placing them so much higher doesn't make much sense to me.
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I'm not sure here, actually. I think the only point that hasn't had a proper conclusion is if "possibly Infinite" should stay on the profile/what changes should be made to speed.
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8 pages and no conclusions 
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this thread started talking about two things AP and speed, and about that I just have to say this
-Speed
Since we already have a calculation with FTL speeds plus Ares's statement about what the gods can see and not see (which seems more or less valid) I think that all Ragnarok participants are gods or humans should be put as FTL, I still think that TFTST involves manipulation but since it seems that there will be no consensus on that I think the speed of Adam and Zeus should be
FTL, Massively FTL + possibly Infinite with TFTST
-AP
here I will talk individually about the characters seen so far
Thor: of him we have his states seen his Base and Awakened Mjolnir, of his base we only have what Heimdall said (who is an unreliable narrator in my opinion) and that of the Serpent, the last one I discard because I do not think he can be used to find the power of Thor for nothing so we only know about the seas and the lands, my one question is what power is needed to tear the seas and lands, and about Mjonir Awakened I will say it again if the Raw does not know mentions the term earth with the kanjis that are used to speak of the bone planet "Chikyū" then it should not be put as a planet level
Lu Bu: I agree with his current base and that he should climb to Thor Base but be under Thor Mjolnir Awake with Volund
Zeus: I still think that what is shown does not accredit giving it the universe level although seeing that a consensus can not be reached with that I agree to leave it as a possibly, as for its true base I think it should equal or exceed Thor Mjolnir Despondent Being older with Adamas should obviously be superior, equaling or surpassing Shiva Tandava Karma
Adam: equal Adamas Zeus
Poseidon: equal to Zeus Base
Sasaki: I agree with his current Base and I think he would match Poseidon with Volund
Hercules: the base of him should match Zeus Base and be greater with his works
Jack: no idea, his base should be human level, maybe street or athlete level, with Volund he should be somewhere between Thor Base and Hercules Base
Shiva: his base should be equal to or higher than Thor Base but I agree with giving him planet level but only his Tandava Karma Form
Raiden: I agree with his base and with Volund he should be equal to Shiva Base and with his muscular manipulation he should be superior to Shiva Base but inferior to Tandava Karma
in the end it all comes down to how strong is Thor Base and Mjolnir Awakened
With all this said and having what is mentioned in the manga, the only conclusions I can reach are:
Thor Base: Continent Level possibly Multi-Continent Level
Mjolnir Awakened: Multi-Continent Level
-Speed
Since we already have a calculation with FTL speeds plus Ares's statement about what the gods can see and not see (which seems more or less valid) I think that all Ragnarok participants are gods or humans should be put as FTL, I still think that TFTST involves manipulation but since it seems that there will be no consensus on that I think the speed of Adam and Zeus should be
FTL, Massively FTL + possibly Infinite with TFTST
-AP
here I will talk individually about the characters seen so far
Thor: of him we have his states seen his Base and Awakened Mjolnir, of his base we only have what Heimdall said (who is an unreliable narrator in my opinion) and that of the Serpent, the last one I discard because I do not think he can be used to find the power of Thor for nothing so we only know about the seas and the lands, my one question is what power is needed to tear the seas and lands, and about Mjonir Awakened I will say it again if the Raw does not know mentions the term earth with the kanjis that are used to speak of the bone planet "Chikyū" then it should not be put as a planet level
Lu Bu: I agree with his current base and that he should climb to Thor Base but be under Thor Mjolnir Awake with Volund
Zeus: I still think that what is shown does not accredit giving it the universe level although seeing that a consensus can not be reached with that I agree to leave it as a possibly, as for its true base I think it should equal or exceed Thor Mjolnir Despondent Being older with Adamas should obviously be superior, equaling or surpassing Shiva Tandava Karma
Adam: equal Adamas Zeus
Poseidon: equal to Zeus Base
Sasaki: I agree with his current Base and I think he would match Poseidon with Volund
Hercules: the base of him should match Zeus Base and be greater with his works
Jack: no idea, his base should be human level, maybe street or athlete level, with Volund he should be somewhere between Thor Base and Hercules Base
Shiva: his base should be equal to or higher than Thor Base but I agree with giving him planet level but only his Tandava Karma Form
Raiden: I agree with his base and with Volund he should be equal to Shiva Base and with his muscular manipulation he should be superior to Shiva Base but inferior to Tandava Karma
in the end it all comes down to how strong is Thor Base and Mjolnir Awakened
With all this said and having what is mentioned in the manga, the only conclusions I can reach are:
Thor Base: Continent Level possibly Multi-Continent Level
Mjolnir Awakened: Multi-Continent Level
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Speed is rated as "Possibly infinite" on the profiles already, and time manipulation is nearly entirely contradicted, so I agree with it staying as-is.
Raiden should be equal to Tandava Karma, at bare minimum comparable. He still damaged Shiva, and took multiple hits, the only one that seemed to really damage him was when he kicked Raiden's arm when he intercepted the 2nd Yatagarasu.
Also, Heimdall is almost completely unreliable. He said Zeus was omnipotent at least twice iirc.
I think Jack should at least partially scale to Hercules. He took a few direct hits without being damaged, and once he started actually fighting he was fighting without being flung. He should also scale reaction & combat speed wise since he's almost always able to register Heracles' attacks and dodge, block, or counter.
Jack's physicals imo should be at least comparable to Pre-cerberus Heracles, and a bit below Cerberus Heracles.
Otherwise, I agree. That seems solid.
Raiden should be equal to Tandava Karma, at bare minimum comparable. He still damaged Shiva, and took multiple hits, the only one that seemed to really damage him was when he kicked Raiden's arm when he intercepted the 2nd Yatagarasu.
Also, Heimdall is almost completely unreliable. He said Zeus was omnipotent at least twice iirc.
I think Jack should at least partially scale to Hercules. He took a few direct hits without being damaged, and once he started actually fighting he was fighting without being flung. He should also scale reaction & combat speed wise since he's almost always able to register Heracles' attacks and dodge, block, or counter.
Jack's physicals imo should be at least comparable to Pre-cerberus Heracles, and a bit below Cerberus Heracles.
Otherwise, I agree. That seems solid.
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i thought mftl was bunk
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I think the argument for MFTL+ at this point is for like Adamas form Zeus because of how much faster that is supposed to be than his base. His hits are considered unavoidable by the gods, who are casually FTL.
It's a bit debatable, but I think that's the argument right now.
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and it should be so but there are too many people who are convinced that it is Massively FTL + because of the zeros spreading out of the page and the description of the attacks of Zeus Adamas as "inevitable"
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You should probably read my reply. It's never called "inevitable" it's called "unavoidable".
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Agreed
Pretty sure it was agreed to not use the infinite at all and just put down MFTL+
Why is that? The feat is able to be calced so why would we just not use it?
So long as Thor > Hermes = 5-C, using planet level is fine as that kanji is apparently still able to be used for the planet itself, just more uncommon.
Why would base Zeus scale above either Mjolnir or Tandava Karma? It has no scaling to either and base Zeus is only shown as superior to base Shiva (pre TK and weight of 1116 gods)
Poseidon has no scaling to Zeus besides hype. All of the scaling relies on Adamas thinking Poseidon would let him win against Zeus despite having a giant army that he believes can’t beat Zeus but he proceeds to immediately try and fight Poseidon. Adamas doesn’t have a clue how strong Zeus actually is and he certainly doesn’t have a clue how strong Poseidon is.
Base Zeus > base Herc
I agree not scaling Jack without using a Volund to Herc since it was stated that he would die if he took a direct hit. With Volunds though, I feel like his AP should scale to Labors Herc since he was still harming that form, even more than before tbh.
I am curious about the reasoning for the bolded.
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It doesn't seem like anything will happen here otherwise.
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It was NOT agreed to just completely get rid of Infinite, Anonymous.
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Yes it was. There wasn’t an end in sight for the infinite vs time stop so it was agreed that both wouldn’t be used. If you really wanna push for infinite again then we are back at square one.
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No, we just never actually came to an agreement. Time Stop was contradicted, so it was dropped, then the debate turned into if we should have Infinite on the profile, and there wasn’t an agreement reached.
It comes off as biased to just say that when that isn’t what happened at all. Nobody agreed to just not use either.
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The statement for Shiva came from the narrator, and is apparently from the official translation,
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Since we are really doing this song and dance again, contradicted by what?
Nobody? Weird then since I seem to very clearly recall Ion vehemently arguing for neither to be used.
Nobody? Weird then since I seem to very clearly recall Ion vehemently arguing for neither to be used.
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The effects of the supposed time stop didn’t happen later again when the move was used at bare minimum 2 more times.
Fine, bit of a hyperbole. Ion didn’t prove anything about why Possibly Infinite shouldn’t be used either way.
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Those same effects that were shown for what you interpret as infinite speed? That contradiction goes both ways.
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Infinite speed is not completely reliant on these effects, and the effects were literally the 2nd biggest argument for time stop. The contradiction doesn’t go both ways, the only way you can argue that is by saying using infinite speed would have similar effects, but it was never a main argument and is by no means a requirement.
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The only conclusion that hasn’t been reached is if Possibly Infinite should remain on the profile, it seems like everything else is done
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The only reason that a conclusion hasn’t been reached on this specific subject is that people (such as Anonymous) are bringing up old points from multiple pages ago, which have long been addressed.
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No. You don’t get to dismiss something when it gets half a chapter showing its effects when you were arguing that Ares having a whole segment to explain what he couldn’t see can’t be dismissed because he had said segment specifically meant to detail what he couldn’t see. Just like that, the visuals getting half a chapter will not be summed up as some “artistic liberty” just because the author didn’t apply the visuals to a panel that includes multiple other techniques. Are we to say Meteor Jab and Divine Axe are no longer the same stuff as before just because we don’t see the meteors or the axe that was shown when Zeus and Adam previously used them? No so don’t try pull that here.
Seeing as the argument has always been that Zeus got it from time itself and the narrator is the only one who ever gives anything like an explanation for the ability which points to it being time manip. The visuals is only the cherry on top.
Let’s not pin this on me. I’m not the one who wanted to revisit this topic when both were concluded to not be usable.
Seeing as the argument has always been that Zeus got it from time itself and the narrator is the only one who ever gives anything like an explanation for the ability which points to it being time manip. The visuals is only the cherry on top.
Let’s not pin this on me. I’m not the one who wanted to revisit this topic when both were concluded to not be usable.
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It was one of the main arguments for it. That’s why it didn’t work. The Kanji of the move is there on the page, meaning the move had been used.
The reason it didn’t work is because one of the main arguments for time stop was literally the artistic choice. If it’s not consistent, which it isn’t, then it doesn’t work. Also, Divine Axe is actually shown on the panel as a kick in it’s original use and in their clash later.
The narrator states that there’s a rumor. The direct quote is
“The mere mention of it’s name IS SAID to exert control over all of time”
All this does is prove that there’s rumors that the move controls time, this doesn’t even mean anything as nobody would know how the move works.
It was never concluded. 1 singular member said that neither should be used, and didn’t prove why, and never disproved my arguments as to why it should stay.
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YOU YOURSELF argued the artistic choice argument earlier in the thread, and, for the reason i’ve had to repeat, it doesn’t work.
Stop being hypocritical with this.
Stop being hypocritical with this.
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How weird, I stopped receiving notifications for this thread. So is 5-B Shiva pretty much settled then?
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Yep, 5-B Shiva is settled. I'm unsure what the rating is for Raiden actually, but it should be 5-B as he fought evenly with Shiva.
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Yeah, Raiden is 5-B as well with his Volund, Higher with his Muscle Manipulation as those attacks are stronger than normal
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You should bookmark this page: https://vsbattles.com/watched/threads
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