Re Zero Skill Evaluation Part 2

[Arnoldstone18]

Garfiel have a attack speed and combat speed of supersonic level, and Ram in the scene as downgrade to average human level, meaning Garfiel should blitz her and she should't be able to react, nor dodge Garfiel attack with just talent and intuiton.

Can a average human character moves as fast as a supersonic one?

Ram's feat should be all good there

I think it's fine unless I'm missing something.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I am very dumb, so whats the differece in number for average human and supersonic speed on this wiki? Because if is more than 7, Ram dodging Garfiel is weird.

 

[Zabazab]

Assuming Garfiel is at least as fast as Subaru's whip which is treated as an unimpressive weapon, the difference is 130 times.

Assuming Garfiel is only mach 1, the difference is 65 times.

The in-universe explanation is Ram's overwhelming talent for combat, and supreme intuition.

“—You’ve grown strong, Garf.”

Haltingly, Ram murmured, her voice flowing with emotion that she rarely let others hear.

Still smiling softly, Ram leaped in and drove a knee into the great tiger’s torso. She bounced off hard; the damage to her kneecap was severe. She’d already run dry of the mana she’d used for physical enhancement; now, her body was only as strong as her petite appearance suggested.

She relied on intuition and talent to evade the countless claw swipes coming her way as she leaped backward. - Volume 13, Chapter 5

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ah, theres where you get the number huh.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bump,

 

[Fezzih_007]

By the way, this feat only apply to Ram, or this scales to others characters?

 

[Zabazab]

Anyone with superior combat talent/intuition would probably scale as it seems we're considering it an analytical precog feat, so only like roughly > Old Wilhelm level I think.

Ram is incredibly skilled after all, probably the current most skilled cqc fighter in the Emilia Camp.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Hmmmmm okay...

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

And again this topic holds up the thread. Lets try this again @DarkDragonMedeus @Lonkitt

Garfiel have a attack speed and combat speed of supersonic level, and Ram in the scene as downgrade to average human level, meaning Garfiel should blitz her and she should't be able to react, nor dodge Garfiel attack with just talent and intuiton.

Can a average human character moves as fast as a supersonic one?

Is the feat still fine?

 

[Zabazab]

Asking for approval for the same feat twice in the same thread is wild, I would expect like Reinhard to be this controversial but not Ram lol

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ram-Sama breaking the wiki lol.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Agreed

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think that feat is still fine.

 

[Elizhaa]

Honestly, the information analysis feat for Elsa looks to be supporting evidence for instintive reaction or instinctive reaction in Ram's case.
I guess the rest, including the feat, seems fine.

 

[Zabazab]

I do suppose that instinct and intuition are synonyms, thanks for settling the feat.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

In other words Elsa's feat of dodging countless numbers of Puck's attacks=instinctive action

Ram dodging Garfiel's attacks with intuition also=instinctive action.

@Elizhaa What do you think about the other Ram feat of detecting invisible explosions the first time she comes across it, and dodging countless numbers of them?

The invisible explosions──Rem had already saw through that trick. It’s a special magic where he can cause explosions on the spot by setting up magic formulas in the air beforehand. It definitely would’ve been very troublesome for her without her background knowledge. However, once she’d figured out the trick, it was no big deal.
Rem had exposed it with her sense of smell, but Ram saw through it by the disturbance in mana right before the explosions. [Faust: Wow, not bad.] [Ram: Kohhh──!] Faist dodges her first attack, and he ignited countless spells while falling back. While he freely covered the corridor with explosive flames, Ram avoided fatal wounds with her supernatural body movement. Yes, she avoided just the fatal wounds. She couldn’t avoid her arm getting lacerated, her legs getting burnt, and her hair burning. But they were still miraculously minor injuries once you considered the amount of explosions and the scale of them.

 

[Elizhaa]

It seems like Ram understands the spell quickly, which could be an intelligence feat since it is stated “It definitely would’ve been very troublesome for her without her background knowledge”.

Then, Ram dodged countless spells with superhuman movements to get non-lethal damages, which could be acrobatic and could be supporting evidence of instinctive action depending on how it is interpreted.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

with superhuman movements

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Alright I think we should be done here.

 

[BoastJr]

Rezero Skill Amps

 

[Epiccheev]

If only Garfield was the same tier as Po or Tai Lung from Kungfu Panda

 

[Greatsage13th]

If only Garfield was the same tier as Po or Tai Lung from Kungfu Panda

Just use Po.

"At least 8-B, at least 7-C with Hero's Chi"

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Ram sama stay winning

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah, Subaru needs a way higher rating but that's a whole nother discussion.

9A Subaru when

 

[VortechsTG]

Right, so for adding that Ram feat I'm thinking that could be written as:

"Significantly higher reaction speed via skill (Characters comparable/superior to Ram are able to dodge attacks that would otherwise speed blitz them via skill, talent, and intuition)"

That sound about right?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Right, so for adding that Ram feat I'm thinking that could be written as:

"Significantly higher reaction speed via skill (Characters comparable/superior to Ram are able to dodge attacks that would otherwise speed blitz them via skill, talent, and intuition)"

That sound about right?

Yeah, i think that's fine, we just need to get the exact number for the speed and we are good.

 

[Zabazab]

That looks fine I think.

 

[VortechsTG]

Yeah, i think that's fine, we just need to get the exact number for the speed and we are good.

I would think that would just go on Ram's profile.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Probally, and It need to Go in the speed section (not sure why not even in there in the first place)

I just trying to get a number here, so Garfiel probally is slower in Tiger form than his normal form, and we can argue that Ram is atleast Peak Human in her depowered state, so the speed diference won't be so absurd.

 

[Epiccheev]

Right, so for adding that Ram feat I'm thinking that could be written as:

"Significantly higher reaction speed via skill (Characters comparable/superior to Ram are able to dodge attacks that would otherwise speed blitz them via skill, talent, and intuition)"

That sound about right?

Remove the "Significantly" and it's good.

 

[VortechsTG]

Remove the "Significantly" and it's good.

Is 100+x not significant enough?

 

[Epiccheev]

Nah, it's because the wiki usually uses either "higher" or "much higher"

 

[VortechsTG]

Nah, it's because the wiki usually uses either "higher" or "much higher"

I can change it to much higher.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Right, so for adding that Ram feat I'm thinking that could be written as:

"Significantly higher reaction speed via skill (Characters comparable/superior to Ram are able to dodge attacks that would otherwise speed blitz them via skill, talent, and intuition)"

That sound about right?

higher via skill works, as weird as that sounds. You're welcome to apply it, cause i am busy.

I forgot where we put Ram in skill, i think it was Old Wilhelm, if so off the top of my head it would apply to:
Pre-Resurrected Theresia
Pre-Resurrected Kurgan
Peak and Old Wilhelm
Reinhard
Reid
Libre

 

[VortechsTG]

higher via skill works, as weird as that sounds. You're welcome to apply it, cause i am busy.

I forgot where we put Ram in skill, i think it was Old Wilhelm, if so off the top of my head it would apply to:
Pre-Resurrected Theresia
Pre-Resurrected Kurgan
Peak and Old Wilhelm
Reinhard
Reid
Libre

Well if it's scaling to Old Wilhelm it should scale to Zombie Theresia and Kurgan too...

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Zombie Kurgan is weird to me, when he was alive he was Peak Wilhelm level, same as how Zombie Theresia was Peak Wilhelm level, and then as a zombie is Old Wilhelm level.

However we see Zombie Kurgan being defeated by Garfiel after a very hard fight, meanwhile Garfiel is freaked out by Old Wilhelm's skill....

Arc 5 Garfiel is definitely more skilled than he was in arc 4, and he did briefly go against both Zombie Kurgan and Theresia, though i would argue neither were going a 100% looking at how much Garfiel struggled with just one, but if Zombie Kurgan was truly as skilled as Zombie Theresia, why is Garfiel freaking out at Old Wilhelm's skill?

Is Garfiel just more powerful, faster and has broken regen? That's 1 explanation maybe.

 

[VortechsTG]

Zombie Kurgan is weird to me, when he was alive he was Peak Wilhelm level, same as how Zombie Theresia was Peak Wilhelm level, and then as a zombie is Old Wilhelm level.

However we see Zombie Kurgan being defeated by Garfiel after a very hard fight, meanwhile Garfiel is freaked out by Old Wilhelm's skill....

Arc 5 Garfiel is definitely more skilled than he was in arc 4, and he did briefly go against both Zombie Kurgan and Theresia, though i would argue neither were going a 100% looking at how much Garfiel struggled with just one, but if Zombie Kurgan was truly as skilled as Zombie Theresia, why is Garfiel freaking out at Old Wilhelm's skill?

Is Garfiel just more powerful, faster and has broken regen? That's 1 explanation maybe.

Wilhelm explicitly says that Garfiel is noticeably faster than him.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Makes sense but still weird, if he is as skilled as Ram, able to take on far faster opponents, Garfiel being faster than Kurgan shouldn't make a difference.

Only way i can make sense of it, is that while Garfiel is inferior to Wilhelm and Kurgan, it's not massive at that point, like between arc 4 Garfiel, and Ram, and Garfiel has a lot of stamina, so just kept coming.

 

[Zabazab]

I honestly think that you could just say that it's Zombie Theresia > Kurgan >= Garfiel, since Kurgan was of an unknown age (probably like ~40?) when he fought Wilhelm and then died like 25 years later.

He'd be about as old as Wilhelm is now with the further reduction in skill from being a zombie, while Theresia was still (somehow) young.

 

[VortechsTG]

Only way i can make sense of it, is that while Garfiel is inferior to Wilhelm and Kurgan, it's not massive at that point, like between arc 4 Garfiel, and Ram, and Garfiel has a lot of stamina, so just kept coming.

As far as skill is concerned Arc 5 Garfiel>>Arc 4 Garfiel>>>>>>>>>Tiger form Garfiel. I'd imagine keeping up with faster opponents gets harder the more skilled they are. Tiger Garf is a mindless beast. Arc 5 Garf is actually an incredibly skilled fighter.