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Re-Upgrade for High 1-C Bill
- Thread starter Lightbuster30
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- bill cipher gravity falls
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- #82
But I'm not arguing for 1-C aliens....FateAlbane said:
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@Lightbuster30 Yes, but the catch is that 1-C aliens is the only thing that could warrant that tier for Bill Cipher, if legit. Which it isn't. Statements regarding threats and multiverse alone warrants 2-A at best as discussed in previous threads.
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Since when does lower dimensionals existing within higher dimensional space disprove that space as higher dimensional?Kaltias said:
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Statement about being a "threat to the multiverse" warrants 2-A at best. Evidence that said threat encompasses the Higher Dimensions/would be destruction on that scale would be necessary for said Tier 1 upgrade to go through.
Which, as I previously stated, there are no feats regarding such a thing or anything close to that scale in the whole verse...
The exact same "reasoning" here being used for this statement could be used to make any character who is said to be "a threat to the world" go 3-A or at least planet lvl despite not showing power remotely on that lvl.
Which, as I previously stated, there are no feats regarding such a thing or anything close to that scale in the whole verse...
The exact same "reasoning" here being used for this statement could be used to make any character who is said to be "a threat to the world" go 3-A or at least planet lvl despite not showing power remotely on that lvl.
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Idk about the aliens being 1-C or not, but they were already dead when we saw them, and we don't know what they are capable of. Perhaps they can do some crazy ass feats. All that they have as "feats" is that the weirdness in gravity falls is mostlikely their responsibility, as the book states. So I'm not sure if bill should be upgraded to tier 1-C again, as much as I would love it.
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I want to say a couple things.
1. Him being "a threat to the multiverse" isn't the only or main statement he has that backs up his tier. The most reliable and knowledgable character directly says that Bill would destroy existence, showing the multiverse instantly blowing up.
2. Paper Mario's case is much different. In an obscure 3rd party Wario game the mere title of an item is titled "String Theory Soup" and people assume that has to mean Paper Mario has 11 dimensions since some versions of String Theory Soup have 11 dimensions. So not only is the source incredibly vague and doesn't actually confirm 11 dimensions, but whether or not this is canon also comes to play.
With Bill a canonical source written by the creator is directly confirming that there are 11 dimensions.
Gravity Falls has 11 dimensions, and Bill has statements of being able to destroy all existence. If people want to not have High 1-C I'm perfectly fine with that, but at least know the arguments all the way and not compare it to completely different things.
1. Him being "a threat to the multiverse" isn't the only or main statement he has that backs up his tier. The most reliable and knowledgable character directly says that Bill would destroy existence, showing the multiverse instantly blowing up.
2. Paper Mario's case is much different. In an obscure 3rd party Wario game the mere title of an item is titled "String Theory Soup" and people assume that has to mean Paper Mario has 11 dimensions since some versions of String Theory Soup have 11 dimensions. So not only is the source incredibly vague and doesn't actually confirm 11 dimensions, but whether or not this is canon also comes to play.
With Bill a canonical source written by the creator is directly confirming that there are 11 dimensions.
Gravity Falls has 11 dimensions, and Bill has statements of being able to destroy all existence. If people want to not have High 1-C I'm perfectly fine with that, but at least know the arguments all the way and not compare it to completely different things.
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@Js He's right, that was his Mindscape form, not his physical/true one.The Wright Way said:
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@Ryu 1. It's the exact same thing as the "threat to the world" statements I mentioned above. You literally take an extremely vague quote and put that at the highest possible tier without actually having any feat to back up that scale. Knowledgeable or not, is he some higher dimensional being stating that the "threat" is actual destruction that would encompass tier 1 heights? As far as he's concerned, erasing all of existence on 2-A is already everything gone. Hell, this is almost like those "Y is Omnipotent" statements we get from characters throughout verses. I didn't see anything close in the whole verse implying such levels of power... Like VARIOUS levels of infinity above the best showings.
2. Yes, and it's borderline the same thing as Yukari going 1-A based on that whole "runs on string theory" thing.
Has statements of being able to destroy all of existence... And again, you take that to the absolute highest end, to mean Tier 1 heights just because the verse itself is that big, without the actual feats. Certain characters from Xenosaga (not the ones previously rated 1-A) who have similar statements but don't have the actual evidence to back up, plus the aforementioned Beatrice comes to mind...
Also said statement comes from beings that don't come even close to the level of existence tier 1 would imply.
I'm very much aware of the situation and all the so called arguments, which I did discuss and looked through on previous threads, lest I wouldn't be quoting other people and providing evidence as well to back up what was said and what I'm saying. Which is that these statements warrant 2-A.
2. Yes, and it's borderline the same thing as Yukari going 1-A based on that whole "runs on string theory" thing.
Has statements of being able to destroy all of existence... And again, you take that to the absolute highest end, to mean Tier 1 heights just because the verse itself is that big, without the actual feats. Certain characters from Xenosaga (not the ones previously rated 1-A) who have similar statements but don't have the actual evidence to back up, plus the aforementioned Beatrice comes to mind...
Also said statement comes from beings that don't come even close to the level of existence tier 1 would imply.
I'm very much aware of the situation and all the so called arguments, which I did discuss and looked through on previous threads, lest I wouldn't be quoting other people and providing evidence as well to back up what was said and what I'm saying. Which is that these statements warrant 2-A.
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>11D aliens
>Can't drive a ship and crash into wall.
Awesome higher-dimensional multiversal walls.
>Can't drive a ship and crash into wall.
Awesome higher-dimensional multiversal walls.
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A "Threat to the multiverse" is a frankly meaningless statement. 7-Bs can be threats to the world, just like 5-Bs or 4-Bs can be threats to the universe, and Low 2-Cs can be threats to the multiverse.
And it won't go beyond 2-A even by the highest possible assumption.
And it won't go beyond 2-A even by the highest possible assumption.
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1. "Threat to the world" is different since the world can mean many different things regarding the context. Destroying all of existence is not nearly that way. Destroying all of existence indicates, destroying the entirety of that verse. The cosmic ruler of the cosmos says Bill would destroy existence, and the existence of Gravity Falls shows to be higher dimensional.
2. Because "all of existence" kinda is the highest end. And such a statement isn't nearly as vague as you claim. If someone is says all of existence, it's a far more reasonable assumption that they are referring to the whole cosmology of that verse than to assume that they're referring to than some utterly infintesimal, practically non-existent portion of the cosmology. You say it's like assigning 3-A to a "threat to the world" line, this is like assigning 11-C to a "threat to the world" quote or assuming that they're referring to only destroying an electron.
Anyways as I already said I'm fine with not High 1-C, especially since those higher dimensional aliens clearly aren't multiversal. However I'm simply saying that certain things aren't entirely being represented all the way, and are being compared to entirely different situations.
But no I do not particularly want High 1-C Bill. He can no longer have that tier. He should stay 2-A though in my opinion.
@Matt They crashed on the ground not against a wall, but yes I agree those aliens obviously aren't Tier 1. And again you're only addressing a statement that is not the only or even primary reason for the tier. 2-A is fine for Bill.
2. Because "all of existence" kinda is the highest end. And such a statement isn't nearly as vague as you claim. If someone is says all of existence, it's a far more reasonable assumption that they are referring to the whole cosmology of that verse than to assume that they're referring to than some utterly infintesimal, practically non-existent portion of the cosmology. You say it's like assigning 3-A to a "threat to the world" line, this is like assigning 11-C to a "threat to the world" quote or assuming that they're referring to only destroying an electron.
Anyways as I already said I'm fine with not High 1-C, especially since those higher dimensional aliens clearly aren't multiversal. However I'm simply saying that certain things aren't entirely being represented all the way, and are being compared to entirely different situations.
But no I do not particularly want High 1-C Bill. He can no longer have that tier. He should stay 2-A though in my opinion.
@Matt They crashed on the ground not against a wall, but yes I agree those aliens obviously aren't Tier 1. And again you're only addressing a statement that is not the only or even primary reason for the tier. 2-A is fine for Bill.
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1. It is, when said existence has varying levels and the character making the statement isn't anywhere close to the high ones. Even moreso when said character who gets the statement never did jack that would warrant that assumption. Same politics as every verse: The higher the tier, the more solid the evidence needs to be. Cosmic Ruler of the Universe... Who, as far as he's concerned, would disappear with all of existence even in destruction at tier 2 heights. Ok.
2. It is. Otherwise everyone in SMT who's equal to or above Kagutsuchi is going Tier 1 at YHVH's dimensional lvl for "destroying all of existence". Many levels of infinity means there are levels to destroying "all of existence"/being "threat to the multiverse" as well.
I could keep this up, but since you're in agreements with the curring tier, I'll simply agree to disagree at this point.
2. It is. Otherwise everyone in SMT who's equal to or above Kagutsuchi is going Tier 1 at YHVH's dimensional lvl for "destroying all of existence". Many levels of infinity means there are levels to destroying "all of existence"/being "threat to the multiverse" as well.
I could keep this up, but since you're in agreements with the curring tier, I'll simply agree to disagree at this point.
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I guess you have a point about "varying levels of existence".
I'm glad you acknowledge that. Simply playing Devil's Advocate or disagreeing with some points of an argument doesn't mean I want High 1-C Bill. I prefer his rating as it currently is right now.
I'm glad you acknowledge that. Simply playing Devil's Advocate or disagreeing with some points of an argument doesn't mean I want High 1-C Bill. I prefer his rating as it currently is right now.
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Those aliens have insanely impressive tech. Millions of years ago they were still capable of high tech space ships that could travel to other dimensions, and a simple household appliance of theirs is superior to Ford's tech (the dimension sealing glue). But yeah Tier and powerwise they show nothing close to Tier 1.Ovrhide said:
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Those aliens have insanely impressive tech. Millions of years ago they were still capable of high tech space ships that could travel to other dimensions, and a simple household appliance of theirs is superior to Ford's tech (the dimension sealing glue). But yeah Tier and powerwise they show nothing close to Tier 1.
Oh no, I completely agree with you there. I agree that the aliens are capable of doing impressive things with their technology, possibly in the high multiversal scale, but no one here seems to agree. So this is not going anywhere apperantly.
Oh no, I completely agree with you there. I agree that the aliens are capable of doing impressive things with their technology, possibly in the high multiversal scale, but no one here seems to agree. So this is not going anywhere apperantly.
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Just curious, why was 2-A Bill doubted in the first place?
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When Time Baby says all of existence, and we know Gravity Falls is a multiverse (and these statements of Gravity Falls being a multiverse are directly tied in with Bill destroying it) it's more reasonable to assume what Time Baby was showing is the multiverse, and not one single universe out of the literal infinite there. There is no proper way to really show what a universe or multiverse looks like, as there would be with a planet or galaxy. If context supports what's being shown is a multiverse, there's no reason to say it isn't based just on what it looks like.
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Pardon if I'm wrong, but isn't Time Baby's statement only for Low 2-C Bill and not 2-A?
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Walking in a straight line? That's 2-D movement
It's not just walking in a straight line, you'd have to imagine how it would be to be flat.
It's not just walking in a straight line, you'd have to imagine how it would be to be flat.
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You have to destroy a higher dimenional universe to be 1-C? I though it was just being higher Dimensional.
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Didn't the aliens have the technology to restore a rift in Space time? The adhesive that Ford desires is something that can prevent Bill from entering the physical world which he goes to obtain from those aliens. Wouldn't that mean the adhesive was strong enough to stop a being whose power threatens an infinite multiverse? Just saying
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But he says 'if' this keeps happening which would imply it's when Bill reaches full power outside Gravity FallsSaikou The Lewd King said:
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Bill is 2-A. What gives.
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So are we just leaving this alone now or what. We keeping 2A Bill or are we adding to it ?
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Was generally agreed to keep it as is.
Guess this can be closed.
Guess this can be closed.
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A'ight then.
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