Re:Creators CRT #1

[RM97]

It is time. This is the first part of the upcoming revisions for Re:Creator given how abysmally outdated the verse is in this wiki.

Common Abilities for Creations​

1. Aura (All creations have their own aura that can be sensed by each other)
2. Accelerated Healing (Despite being similar in bodily composition, all creations have a fast recovery system compared to humans)
3. Vibration Manipulation & Magnetism Manipulation (Passive; As explained in this section of my blog, the arrival of each of the creations in the real world caused abnormal magnetic fields and radio interference)
4. Acausality (Type 4; In the same section of the blog, I have explained how the creations are characters that have been plucked out from their respective stories and are not bound by their narrative yoke/causality as well as constraints of their worlds while also being independent of the events happening in their stories in past, present, and future)
5. Resistances to Matter Manipulation & Biological Manipulation Body Control (The creations are characters that have their data prefixed or set for their physical appearance to not be altered easily, where even if they eat a lot they would not get fat, implying that their physical bodies are not vulnerable to matter or biological manipulations)

Selesia​

1. Inorganic Physiology (Type 2; Vogelchevalier is a Mecha).
2. Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Space-Time Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Void Manipulation, Vector Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Sealing, & Magic (As explained in this section of the blog, Selesia’s Ionian Aphoria employs both ancient mysticism to manipulate the very concept of “Hachimon Tonko” which controls Direction as well as perception. This allowed her to not only summon the power/energy only warp "Sanzensekai"/"All Worlds", but also create an infinite-sized chaotic realm of pure nothingness where not even ideas and shadows can exist and which can be used to trap the victim in an infinite series of gates while also messing with the victim’s sense of direction).
3. AP: At least 2-B via Ionian Aphoria (Ionian Aphoria can create an infinite-sized realm of pure chaotic nothingness using the concepts of Hachimon Tonko. Said realm is developed to trap Altair inside while the creators were also aware of Altair’s ability to move between different worlds, thus logically, it would be big enough to exceed her own range of travel).

Aliceteria​

1. NPI (Evidence is already given on her page, but was stated to be empowered by Concept Boost to directly attack and affect Altair after it was determined that attacking Altair either by magical or physical means is futile and the only way to harm her is to attack her concept)
2. Magnetism Manipulation (Created Aurora Borealis inside the Birdcage just as a side-effect of her attack on Altair)

Yuuya​

1. Summoning & Flight (Can summon Hangaku, who is capable of flying)

Agree: 19 (Dereck03, ExecutorN0, Elizhaa, DarkDragonMedeus, Planck69, Lonkitt, lephyrtherevanchist {Concept, Sealing}, SYPHe5d, BreezeHM, BoastJr, shinnKazals, Hyura, BasedNecoScaler69, Deidalius, Georredannea15, RitsuØ1, Breakdown, TokiNoOuja, Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara {Except Space-Time Manipulation})
Disagree: 4 (Deagonx {Sealing, Acausality, Concept, Chaos, Void, Space-Time Manipulation}, Maverick_Zero_X {Sealing, Acausality, Concept, Chaos, Void, Space-Time Manipulation}, Mr._Bambu {Acausality, Concept, Chaos, Void Manipulation}, Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara {Space-Time Manip})
Neutral: 1 (DarkDragonMedeus {Chaos, Sealing, Void, Space-Time Manip})

 

[Dereck03]

Since we discussed this beforehand so I agree with this, I can't wait for the continuation and the wank. Also I think you should create the blog in VSB as well, although I think it will be a pain to upload all the images to the site.

 

[RM97]

Since we discussed this beforehand so I agree with this, I can't wait for the continuation and the wank. Also I think you should create the blog in VSB as well, although I think it will be a pain to upload all the images to the site.

The wanktrain goes on forever
Thanks. But yeah, creating the blog in vsb will render me unable to touch grass for months.

 

[Dereck03]

I have a way to make it easier, i'll get in to it.

 

[Deidalius]

This verse deserves more attention.

 

[RM97]

This verse deserves more attention.

Shall I put you in agree, disagree, or neutral?

 

[Deidalius]

Shall I put you in agree, disagree, or neutral?

I am going to check tomorrow (If I remember) each scan. Then I'll give my opinion.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I have a way to make it easier, i'll get in to it.

I'd need that as well in the future btw.

 

[Vietthai96]

that is a long ass blog

 

[Dereck03]

Working.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Well, this is a pleasant surprise. I agree with everything except for a few things.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Void Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Sealing, & Magic (As explained in this section of the blog, Selesia’s Ionian Aphoria employs both ancient mysticism to manipulate the very concept of “Hachimon Tonko” aka “Qi Men Dun Jia” which governs and controls Direction as well as Space-Time to bring good and bad fortune. This allowed her to not only summon the power/energy only warp "Sanzensekai"/"Infinite Possibilities", but also create an infinite-sized chaotic realm of pure nothingness where not even ideas and shadows can exist and which can be used to trap the victim in an infinite series of gates while also messing with the victim’s sense of direction).

Most abilities here are fine, but I'm very against using real life Buddhist concepts like this, especially when there isn't really further context involved. I'm relatively certain we have rules against doing this, and iirc JJK had a number of abilities also reliant on Buddhist concepts be rejected for much the same reason. I think concept manip, space-time manip, and probability manip need to go as a result.

Also, you listed perception manipulation twice.

AP: At least 2-B via Ionian Aphoria (Ionian Aphoria can create an infinite-sized realm of pure chaotic nothingness using the concepts of Hachimon Tonko. Said realm is developed to trap Altair inside while the creators were also aware of Altair’s ability to move between different worlds, thus logically, it would be big enough to exceed her own range of travel).

Just because they're aware of Altair's dimensional travel doesn't mean they suddenly possess the power to create a realm big enough to exceed her range. Altair quite literally breaks out not long after, so saying they exceeded her range in the first place is a baseless claim considering she just... left.

This is High 3-A at best imo.

Acausality (Types 2 & 4; In the same section of the blog, I have explained how the creations are characters that have been plucked out from their respective stories and are not bound by their narrative yoke/causality as well as constraints of their worlds while also being independent of the events happening in their stories in past, present, and future)

This is just type 4. Nothing really mentions independence from the past.

Not really looking forward to arguing over the rest of that blog imo-

 

[Vietthai96]

Working.

Gif not working

 

[Dereck03]

Gif not working

I'm uploading all of them, this is a big work so may take a good amount of time.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm uploading all of them, this is a big work so may take a good amount of time.

ngl, this blog should be divided into multiple shorter blog lmao

 

[Hasty12345]

I'll be back to evaluate this CRT in 2099 after I finish reading the blog, brb

 

[RM97]

Most abilities here are fine, but I'm very against using real life Buddhist concepts like this, especially when there isn't really further context involved. I'm relatively certain we have rules against doing this, and iirc JJK had a number of abilities also reliant on Buddhist concepts be rejected for much the same reason. I think concept manip, space-time manip, and probability manip need to go as a result.

Sanzensekai is actually a Buddhist term for "all possibilities". It is mistranslated in different series (Such as Demonbane for example) and also in this series by taking the literal translation which is 3000 Worlds (Hence the "You shall warp 3000 words"). While this is not 1-to-1 with original Buddhist ideas/concepts, it only gives context to the event where Ionion Aphoria is not warping 3000 Worlds, but rather all possibilities present aka Probability Manipulation. This is further supported by the idea that Ionion Aphoria is stated to directly manipulate the Concept of "Hachimon Tonkou" to create the realm where the Guidebook itself explains what Hachimon Tonkou is, which is the same as the Chinese Fengshui divination i.e. manipulation of geographic directions that extend to Space and Time to bring Fortune (i.e. Luck aka Probability Manipulation). From a plot standpoint of view, this makes sense as Altair was unaffected by Magical or Physical attacks and they had to attack her concept directly from that point onwards, thus, they created an inescapable zone to completely trap Altair despite her ability to travel to different worlds.

Also, you listed perception manipulation twice.

My bad, I'll fix it.

Just because they're aware of Altair's dimensional travel doesn't mean they suddenly possess the power to create a realm big enough to exceed her range. Altair quite literally breaks out not long after, so saying they exceeded her range in the first place is a baseless claim considering she just... left.

This is High 3-A at best imo.

Altair breaking out of the sealed realm is not a counterpoint, considering she broke out of the realm via finding a single exit gate out of an Infinite Number of them aka via Probability Manipulation and not via Dimensional Travel. Also, they do possess the power considering they helped Meteora create the Birdcage, which as per Altair's own admission, is unable to let her escape as she does not possess the power.

This is just type 4. Nothing really mentions independence from the past.

Changes/rewrite in their story does not affect them at all and neither does creating new plots. This is extensively elaborated in Episode 3, 4, and even 5. As for how/why the changes occur, that one is a big spoiler.

 

[SYPHe5D]

Zawg wrote an entire bible , i agree.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Sanzensekai is actually a Buddhist term for "all possibilities". It is mistranslated in different series (Such as Demonbane for example) and also in this series by taking the literal translation which is 3000 Worlds (Hence the "You shall warp 3000 words"). While this is not 1-to-1 with original Buddhist ideas/concepts, it only gives context to the event where Ionion Aphoria is not warping 3000 Worlds, but rather all possibilities present aka Probability Manipulation. This is further supported by the idea that Ionion Aphoria is stated to directly manipulate the Concept of "Hachimon Tonkou" to create the realm where the Guidebook itself explains what Hachimon Tonkou is, which is the same as the Chinese Fengshui divination i.e. manipulation of geographic directions that extend to Space and Time to bring Fortune (i.e. Luck aka Probability Manipulation). From a plot standpoint of view, this makes sense as Altair was unaffected by Magical or Physical attacks and they had to attack her concept directly from that point onwards, thus, they created an inescapable zone to completely trap Altair despite her ability to travel to different worlds.

Again, you're taking a mention of a real concept in a fictional medium and assuming it's 1-to-1 with the real concept, when that isn't something we assume (especially as far as religious or philosophical concepts are concerned). Nothing in Re:Creators itself implies this ability affects space and time or bends probability, so we can't really justify adding those abilities.

You could definitely argue vector manipulation off of controlling physical directions though.

Changes/rewrite in their story does not affect them at all and neither does creating new plots. This is extensively elaborated in Episode 3, 4, and even 5. As for how/why the changes occur, that one is a big spoiler.

Type 4 alone can cover that though, given the whole context is them breaking free from the yoke of their stories. Type 2 is just redundant.

Altair breaking out of the sealed realm is not a counterpoint, considering she broke out of the realm via finding a single exit gate out of an Infinite Number of them aka via Probability Manipulation and not via Dimensional Travel. Also, they do possess the power considering they helped Meteora create the Birdcage, which as per Altair's own admission, is unable to let her escape as she does not possess the power.

The context you linked says the creators assisted in creating the Birdcage, not the creations themselves.

Anyways, assuming this feat was done via sheer size and not the other factors tied to the realm is a bit odd. Selesia wouldn't really need to make a 2-B realm if she thought that warping physical directions as well as one's sense of direction would be enough.

 

[RM97]

Again, you're taking a mention of a real concept in a fictional medium and assuming it's 1-to-1 with the real concept, when that isn't something we assume (especially as far as religious or philosophical concepts are concerned). Nothing in Re:Creators itself implies this ability affects space and time or bends probability, so we can't really justify adding those abilities.

I'm not "assuming it's 1-to-1 with the real concept" when I have clarified above that it is a reference to how the ability works i.e. warping "Sanzensekai" which is warping "All possibilities" instead of literally taking it as face value as "Warping 3000 worlds". Matter of fact, the Kanji given for Hachimon Tonko is "八門遁甲" aka Qi Men Dun Jia which is a Chinese Divination method that manipulates Direction in terms of Space and Time to evaluate good or bad luck, something which is explained in the Guidebook itself. So obviously the Concept of Hachimon Tonko/Eight Gates is something that manipulates Direction in terms of Space-Time to evaluate luck/fortune/probability as well as Sense of Direction, and is existent in the verse and not just a passing mention of a real life concept from Feng Shui.

You could definitely argue vector manipulation off of controlling physical directions though.

Vector Manipulation will be added too ig.

Type 4 alone can cover that though, given the whole context is them breaking free from the yoke of their stories. Type 2 is just redundant.

I am pretty sure that Type 4 is not inclusive of Type 2, unlike Type 1. So it's best to add it.

The context you linked says the creators assisted in creating the Birdcage, not the creations themselves.

Creators assisted only Meteora. The rest of the creation cannot do anything but only Meteora could control the birdcage. But I digress.

Anyways, assuming this feat was done via sheer size and not the other factors tied to the realm is a bit odd. Selesia wouldn't really need to make a 2-B realm if she thought that warping physical directions as well as one's sense of direction would be enough.

That is a good point. However, let me ask you this: Why would sense of direction & physical directions be relevant to someone who can teleport to interdimensional realms just by thinking without the need to physically move? I mean obviously as you pointed out, the other factors tied to the realm also played a big part in the trapping process. But even if someone with dimensional travel were to survive all the shenanigans inside and want to exit, they would still need the range to escape the realm. So even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that indeed Altair was trapped inside a High 3-A realm, why did she not escape using her Dimensional Travel? Why did she have to resort to using Probability Manipulation to find 1 Gate for exit amongst Infinite Gates? Why did she tell Selesia that she does not have the power to escape the Birdcage even when Selesia asked her the same question about why she didn't escape the Birdcage if she could escape the Sealed Realm?
The logical conclusion is simple, she lacked the range. She, who can travel to different storyworlds via dimensional travel, was unable to escape both the Sealed Realm as well as the Birdcage.

 

[Dereck03]

RM97 makes the more sense here, i'm still agreeing with him.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'm not "assuming it's 1-to-1 with the real concept" when I have clarified above that it is a reference to how the ability works i.e. warping "Sanzensekai" which is warping "All possibilities" instead of literally taking it as face value as "Warping 3000 worlds". Matter of fact, the Kanji given for Hachimon Tonko is "八門遁甲" aka Qi Men Dun Jia which is a Chinese Divination method that manipulates Direction in terms of Space and Time to evaluate good or bad luck, something which is explained in the Guidebook itself. So obviously the Concept of Hachimon Tonko/Eight Gates is something that manipulates Direction in terms of Space-Time to evaluate luck/fortune/probability as well as Sense of Direction, and is existent in the verse and not just a passing mention of a real life concept from Feng Shui.

The guidebook doesn't actually say any of that, it just mentions that the technique utilizes Qi Men Dun Jia and provides very little elaboration as to what that even is. You can use what the series itself provides and no more; This isn't a particularly new concept. Even if you aren't claiming it's 1-to-1 with a real concept, you're still claiming it can do far more than what is shown in the series and using real life as the basis for that.

I am pretty sure that Type 4 is not inclusive of Type 2, unlike Type 1. So it's best to add it.

I'm fairly certain it is in cases like this, where characters exist wholly outside of a causal system. Not sure if it matters one way or the other, though.

That is a good point. However, let me ask you this: Why would sense of direction & physical directions be relevant to someone who can teleport to interdimensional realms just by thinking without the need to physically move? I mean obviously as you pointed out, the other factors tied to the realm also played a big part in the trapping process. But even if someone with dimensional travel were to survive all the shenanigans inside and want to exit, they would still need the range to escape the realm. So even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that indeed Altair was trapped inside a High 3-A realm, why did she not escape using her Dimensional Travel? Why did she have to resort to using Probability Manipulation to find 1 Gate for exit amongst Infinite Gates? Why did she tell Selesia that she does not have the power to escape the Birdcage even when Selesia asked her the same question about why she didn't escape the Birdcage if she could escape the Sealed Realm?
The logical conclusion is simple, she lacked the range. She, who can travel to different storyworlds via dimensional travel, was unable to escape both the Sealed Realm as well as the Birdcage.

If you teleport somewhere, you still need a good idea of where it is you're even teleporting to, which is obviously a lot harder to do if your perception is actively being distorted.

 

[RM97]

The guidebook doesn't actually say any of that, it just mentions that the technique utilizes Qi Men Dun Jia and provides very little elaboration as to what that even is. You can use what the series itself provides and no more; This isn't a particularly new concept. Even if you aren't claiming it's 1-to-1 with a real concept, you're still claiming it can do far more than what is shown in the series and using real life as the basis for that.

I think I should explain properly here. This is what Qi Men Dun Jia is defined as: Qi Men Dun Jia is a mathematical and physical model set up to incorporate Heavenly, Earth, Human, and unexpected aspects, as well as time and space, or directional elements. These divination methods are used to discern both good and bad luck in relation to time and space (direction).
In both of these definitions, Space and Time are referred to as part of direction which Qi Men Dun Jia uses to study good and bad luck.
Now, here's what the Guidebook says:

■「八門遁甲」 方位を操る術。地理的な方位に限らず、認識の向かう先をねじ曲げる。たとえば、まっすぐに進んでいるつもりが同じ場所をぐるぐる回っているような状態に陥らせる。

■「Hachimon Tonkou」 The art of manipulating direction. It is not limited to geographic directions but also twists the direction of perception. For example, it can make you think you are going in a straight line, but you are going in circles around the same place.

It not only explains that Hachimon Tonkou is the art of manipulating directions, but that it is not only limited to geographic directions. While people may say this is nitpicking as full context includes direction of perception, but that is not the case as Hachimon Tonkou is one of the core principles of Qi Men Dun Jia which divides Space and Time into Eight Sectors. Essentially showcasing that by Direction here in context is not only bound by Space, but also focuses on Time as it is the very idea of Hachimon Tonkou. As for the "Sanzensekai" part, it very much means "All Possibilities"/"All Possible Worlds" without any context, which lends credibility to how Ionion Aphoria's power warps all possibilities via utilizing the concept of Hachimon Tonkou so that Altair cannot escape from the sealed space.

If you teleport somewhere, you still need a good idea of where it is you're even teleporting to, which is obviously a lot harder to do if your perception is actively being distorted.

Perception Manipulation =/= Cognitive Thinking Manipulation. Just because your sense of direction is busted, does not mean your ability to recall a familiar place or think of any random place will also be affected. It just means that what you perceive in reality is different than what reality actually is.

 

[BreezeHM]

I was going to say how you can't equate Real life Buddhist concepts and equate it to fictional concepts, but after reading your replies with the guidebook, kanji and translations, it looks good to use.

 

[Hasty12345]

is it really using Buddhism if you're literally using the definition of the word though?

 

[BoastJr]

An Altair CRT ? Yeah I will have to agree.

This looks pretty well thought out. RM97 for the win here since his arguments past the op are still convincing.

 

[shinnKazals]

seems fine to me, agree

 

[Executor_N0]

I don't think there's any question about the meaning of the Buddhist stuff mentioned here, I guess everyone is fine with what they mean (Which is surprising considering how the direct translation of the name might often not represent the full scope of what is being told), but rather the idea of applying clarification of what the term means while the original material gives not enough clarification.

Well, if there are already rules set in place for stuff like this sadly there's nothing to be done unless attempt to change the standards. I personally don't mind some application of the terms were it makes sense.

 

[RM97]

I don't think there's any question about the meaning of the Buddhist stuff mentioned here, I guess everyone is fine with what they mean (Which is surprising considering how the direct translation of the name might often not represent the full scope of what is being told), but rather the idea of applying clarification of what the term means while the original material gives not enough clarification.

Well, if there are already rules set in place for stuff like this sadly there's nothing to be done unless attempt to change the standards. I personally don't mind some application of the terms were it makes sense.

So do you agree with what is explained here?

 

[Executor_N0]

I personally agree, don't know about the Wiki rules about it.

 

[Deagonx]

I agree with Fuji on not extrapolating from Buddhist terms, as well as the other concerns.

 

[RM97]

I agree with Fuji on not extrapolating from Buddhist terms, as well as the other concerns.

No extrapolation here as ExecutorN0 explains it (Not to mention, Feng Shui predates Buddhism by over 3000 years, so it's not a Buddhist concept in the first place).

 

[Hyura]

Looks fine, agree

 

[Dereck03]

It is not really an extrapolation if there are clear mentions in translations, guidebooks, kanji and specific concepts by Altair and Selesia, so thread still seems fine.

 

[Deagonx]

It doesn't appear that way to me. For instance you provide a link to the Feng Shui institute and made the claim that the divination method manipulates direct and spacetime to evaluate good luck and bad luck.

However, the source you link says something entirely different:
"These divination methods are used to discern both good and bad luck in relation to time and space (direction)."

I don't see how this could possibly be interpreted as manipulating direction or spacetime. You also call it probability manipulation at some point, which is completely absurd. How does discerning good and bad luck count as manipulating something? That'd be like calling it math manipulation to use a calculator.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I didn't even notice that before, but that's a pretty obvious issue. I'm still of the opinion that, regardless of the guidebook mentioning certain concepts, we should only use what the series itself provides in terms of abilities.

 

[Deagonx]

I agree. If these characters have these abilities, just show them using the abilities in that way. The fact that we're posting links to a "Feng Shui Institute" page, let alone the gross misrepresentation of what it says, gives me extreme pause. We're here to discuss the series, not real-world mysticism. The only extent to which Chinese traditions are relevant is the extent to which they're overtly described within the series itself.

We really shouldn't have to emphasize how little it means that the phrase "Bamen Dunjia" or "Hachimon Tonkou" are being used. Bamen Dunjia is what Rock Lee's Eight Gates are called, too. So unless we think his ability has something to do with discerning luck or manipulating perception, we need to dispense with the idea that fictional portrayals of ancient tradition can be reliably expected to adhere to the real world practice.

Prove what it means in the verse, don't rely on outside sources at all.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

agree with op

 

[RM97]

It doesn't appear that way to me. For instance you provide a link to the Feng Shui institute and made the claim that the divination method manipulates direct and spacetime to evaluate good luck and bad luck.

However, the source you link says something entirely different:
"These divination methods are used to discern both good and bad luck in relation to time and space (direction)."

I'm pretty sure I clarified this here in my comment:

I think I should explain properly here. This is what Qi Men Dun Jia is defined as: Qi Men Dun Jia is a mathematical and physical model set up to incorporate Heavenly, Earth, Human, and unexpected aspects, as well as time and space, or directional elements. These divination methods are used to discern both good and bad luck in relation to time and space (direction).
In both of these definitions, Space and Time are referred to as part of direction which Qi Men Dun Jia uses to study good and bad luck.

So in my clarification comment, I made it clear that both Space and Time are the "Direction" which Qi Men Dun Jia uses to study good and bad luck. Notice how I never said Qi Men Dun Jia is manipulating Space-Time here. But let's address the second part of your comment:

I don't see how this could possibly be interpreted as manipulating direction or spacetime. You also call it probability manipulation at some point, which is completely absurd. How does discerning good and bad luck count as manipulating something? That'd be like calling it math manipulation to use a calculator.

If you read the very same comment, you can see that I have posted this:

Now, here's what the Guidebook says:

■「八門遁甲」 方位を操る術。地理的な方位に限らず、認識の向かう先をねじ曲げる。たとえば、まっすぐに進んでいるつもりが同じ場所をぐるぐる回っているような状態に陥らせる。

■「Hachimon Tonkou」 The art of manipulating direction. It is not limited to geographic directions but also twists the direction of perception. For example, it can make you think you are going in a straight line, but you are going in circles around the same place.

It not only explains that Hachimon Tonkou is the art of manipulating directions, but that it is not only limited to geographic directions. While people may say this is nitpicking as full context includes direction of perception, but that is not the case as Hachimon Tonkou is one of the core principles of Qi Men Dun Jia which divides Space and Time into Eight Sectors. Essentially showcasing that by Direction here in context is not only bound by Space, but also focuses on Time as it is the very idea of Hachimon Tonkou.

And if you still have not understood what Hachimon Tonko is, it is this: "Eight Gates Formation: Qimen Dunjia divides both time and space into eight sectors, each represented by a trigram from the Bagua. These sectors are further subdivided into 60 Jiazi (Stem-Branch) combinations, creating a matrix that corresponds to different aspects of life." If you have not gotten the context yet, Selesia was using the concept of Hachimon Tonko to create a Sealed Space. Aka She was not simply using the ability to study directions and understand luck, she was utilizing/manipulating its very concept itself which allows her to manipulate Directions and Perception (Which is quite literally stated in the Guidebook). So your own analogy of "That'd be like calling it math manipulation to use a calculator" becomes a case of False-Equivalency.

As for the Probability Manipulation part, it comes from "Sanzensekai"'s original meaning and is not a direct/literal translation of Sanzen (3000) and Sekai (World). There is no 1-to-1 as I am not at all going into the detailed explanation of "Sanzensekai" which deals with a lot of Metaphysics and Esotericism, but rather the meaning, which is "All Possibilities Present"/"All Possible Worlds". This is pretty much explained by ExecutorN0 above:

I don't think there's any question about the meaning of the Buddhist stuff mentioned here, I guess everyone is fine with what they mean (Which is surprising considering how the direct translation of the name might often not represent the full scope of what is being told), but rather the idea of applying clarification of what the term means while the original material gives not enough clarification.

 

[KLOL506]

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @Lonkitt @LephyrTheRevanchist @Emirp sumitpo Please help my man out.

 

[KLOL506]

@Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @LordGriffin1000 @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkDragonMedeus