The Presence is just god so they shouldn't have separate keys
This one is huge considering how this pretty much says every aspect of the overvoid would be high 1-A
Who are the supporters of this verse? so i can bring their attention to this.
Make a CRT, and Antvasima is the first one you need to call
vsbattles.fandom.com
I am sorry but there is pretty much nothing in that thread that proves that these two keys are different.
Outdated Quora/ comicvine arguments from Hyku
The Primium Mobile. The throne of Light. Not the Voice, now, but the Presence.
- Narrator, Lucifer 2000 #
Without delving too deeply into the details, the confusion lies in the fact that since the Presence "God" interacts inside Creation through aspects as we have seen briefly, these same aspects are considered to be God, which is far from being the case in reality since the latter is one with the Void (in Mike Carey Lucifer work and supported by the work of various authors). I will elaborate more, if necessary.Lucifer: All that we make? You are the maker, Father. We're only the tools you use.
The Presence: Or as it might be, the aspects of myself through which I act. Just as this is the aspect of myself through which I speak.
- Lucifer 2000 #75
Yeah man thats just headcannon honestly.
No its definitely the real dude tho. He is connected to the damn pages of dc comics i am certain thats the guy
Then I suggest you to read for a second time, because the same figure that Lucifer identifies as "Father" himself states that it is an aspect. The Presence confirms both that Lucifer and himself are aspects, from this point on there is no counter-argument.
'The real dude' is one with the one Void as shown in Mike Carey Lucifer work, specifically in Lucifer #75,as it can be logically deduced first from Lucifer 2000 #75, in which Mike Carey used the very same writing style to describe both of them with the following attributes: "infinite" and "eternal", putting in bold "infinite" first in both cases.
[...] The Void is infinite and eternal--
And for the second reason, still in the same issue Lucifer #75, based on the Presence's analogy, using Buddha and Monkey King as mirror about the events which have led Lucifer to believe that he could escape the Presence "God" influence outside his Creation, in the Void. In short, 'the real dude' is one with the Void, but this does not mean that there are no aspects inside Creation through which he uses to interacts with it as already explained and saw that there is already a Presence inside Creation, in the Primium Mobile.True, I'm infinite and eternal.
Definitely didn't read that one throughly, yes, this being was some aspect that the presence used to speak through.
If i am correct taking your words as true shouldn't the form Lucifer was talking to be just another avatar?
If you are saying that there is no difference between the Presence and the Presence "God", I've already highlighted that the main difference is the fact that the former is set specfically in a Judeo-Christian setting, whereas the latter is a universal God's figure who is one with Void. There is more to add, like adressing how the word 'shape' has been misunderstood in the scan which in fact supports the Presence "God" having aspects accordingly the belief system.
Correct, the figure whom Lucifer is interacting with in the scan is an aspect that was use initially to interact with Elaine Belloc following her godhood in Lucifer #68.
First the Void by the narrator, then the Presence "God" through that aspect he is using. The point was to put forward the fact that the Presence "God" and the Void were one.
It depends on the current DC Comics "canon", which I did not follow as I used to, but from what I've caught up on recently : The Presence, the Source, the Overvoid, The Great Darknes and others that escape me as I haven't caught up with everything, yet.
No man there is like no difference between these two.
The presence is speaking about himself.
The presence and the great evil beast are aspects of the overvoid.
What is this comicvine tier argument? "The Presence is infinite and eternal and the Void is infinite and eternal so they are the same". The number infinity is also infinite and eternal, I guess its the Overvoid too. The universe is infinite and eternal, and so is the multiverse, so universe = multiverse in DC
By your own words, you are asserting there are differences in terms of individuality. That's the point. The former Presence will stay an aspect of the Presence "God" in the context of that belief system. Hence the fact that the first Presence is mainly present, with the Word, another aspect, in specific location in Heaven, respectively the Premium Mobile and the Logos.
Irrelevant, if you read the point of the reason why it was put forward:
Just beceause God has choosen this form in instance, does not mean he is constrained with that specific aspect. If you had read Lucifer, or even taken your time to read the comics mentioned, i.e Lucifer #68, it is shown cleary that the Presence (God) choose aspects that are within the grasp of his interlocutor. In Elaine's case, the Presence (God) started to take aspects of people relatable to Elaine.
In your headcanon, not DC's canon, let alone the current one.
Reading comprehension is not your strong point, in addition doing a straw-man.
"Argument I have not, insults I must use"
Say the one stating:
No that isn't the point. That isnt the point of my thread anyways, the point is the fact that these 2 keys are not different.
The presence and the void are one, that is correct.
I took that straight from the note on the hands page.
The duality of light and darkness is described to be near perfect
Only if you omit their individuality by taking into account what they share in common as a figure. In that case, you should accept as well that the Great Darkness, Pralaya and Nekron were not different because they were the Primordial Darkness in the context of their own mythos.
On the substance, indeed, but less on the form. "A part of" is not the terms used in my post, although I understand what you mean.
Let's proceed as follows: How about reading the comics to understand before you ask more questions, showing how much you are in denial about all the explanations you seek.
"Same" in what sense? Clarify what you are saying.
We've hit the bottom.
Why should this not be Mawu? Open your eyes, if there is indeed a God above gods, it may have any shape or form or many. Why should you assume alone know the true face of God? We are all aspects of God, just as all Orishas are aspects of Ife-- and yet more than that, too.
- Ornunmilla, the Spectre 1992 #58
Each merely reinterprets in their own fashion what actually happened so all are true.
- Zeus, the Spectre 1992 #58
You are entitled to disagree, still it will not change any fact on this matter (nor making negative claims of worthless value).
Here's the good news: DC = / = Umineko.
From what i remember pralaya is the embodiment of nothingness, and nekron is the embodiment of death.
Denial of WHAT?
Something else that lies inside the heavens is the source
The Judeo-Christian presence is connected to the void.
But we do know tho?
Alright then, so the spectre was actually right in the two scans, thank you for agreeing that the source is equal to the guy the spectre sees as his father.
Oh my god
I havent read swamp thing. But in these out of context pages (or atleast thats what i think you are referring to) what in there even proves that the heaven presence is different from the void presence. I need some explanations
Bro that completely disproves what you are saying.
The hell does that even mean
I definitely do deny the reaches provided
It does not adress the point I made:
Starting from there:
This scan is a further of evidence that the same figure is can be indentified in the context of another belief system. You are adding grist to the mill.
Michael = / = Mister Miracle.
The only thing that you have actually done is to reach a deeper bottom than the previous one, if that was your self sufficient so-called evidence.
Still an empty claim.
Clearly not based on this storyline you are using as evidence, going in fact against your claims by establishing a universal God identified under different names depending on the belief system context. That's the point of the storyline if it's still escape you, and another detail I'll mention later from the same work by John Ostrander.
Claim = / = Evidence.
The Spectre was not right, as he only considers the God of his own belief system to be the only true God, which is also the claim you made. So, rather, thanks on agreeing that the the Presence "God" is a universal God figure and potraying yourself as walking contradiction.
The sames ones you saw after scrolling down back, as I've told you a few points before.Oh my god
What facts are you talking about man
Thanks for confirming that you are motormouth, next step is to actually read the comics before making any claims (positive or negative).
Where is the counter-argument, expect supporting the relationship between God and the Void? Like I said, walking contradiction.
If you are referecing to the specific instance in which Lucifer and the Presence had a talk in the final Mike Carey's Lucfer issue, this was not the point as their disscusion was about Lucifer's futile attempt to be his own maker.
Your disapproval were already debunked in the following post:
Mortals can perceive only aspects of the Endless, not theire entire being, and of the Endless can manifest himself or herself in more than one aspect at any one time..
New from you to refer to yourself in the third person.
Said figure is also identified, as you said, as the source.
Maybe i worded it incorrectly, the source and the heavens presence are used interchangebly
High 1-A energy = high 1-A
No, i feel like the myriads of statements saying they are, including the infinite and eternal one do unempty that claim.
And he is right, as that his father is indeed the creator of dc comics.
Alright then big boy
I am not denying the fact that the presence and the overvoid are equal. I am denying the “fact” that the heaven presence is different then This “void presence"
I have no idea how that debunks my point but i digress.
Yea alright, i did make that point at like 6am i do actually find the wrong in it because the presence definitely uses different faces to speak from.
Still clearly not in the scan you have provided, pointing more at a place than a person, but we will come back to it a little more in depth in the next point.
I give you the benefit of the doubt.
Key Words: Closely concentred.The New Gods’ evolution was shaped by a potent spiritual energy manifesting as a wall called “the Source,” which is closely concentrated on the twin worlds.
What it has anything to do with the points made so-far in this disscusion?
We're going to reach the abbys, definitely.
As a quick recall: Claims = / = Evidence. You can still do better.
The point is still over your head since Spectre was wrong because he assumed that the God of his own belief system was the one true God, which you also have claimed, and is very far from being the case as this storyline shown and other works. To put it simply, if you still don't get it, the Spectre claiming that the God of his worldview is the Creator does not make him wrong, but claiming that he is true one among others does. That's the subtle difference, which you have claimed:
There is not "later", as the Spectre was not right to begin with on his assumption on the true God.
Nonsense, for the simple reason that the aspect of a figure is not the figure itself as it was made it clear since my first post, and even more so with my previous post on the Presence "God" fitting the perception of his interloctor, like the Endless, side-effects of God's Creation, whom we only saw aspects of them.
The Presence = / = The Presence "God", and, as I said before, DC's tiering system was not even adressed, stick to the discussion.
Very well, we've already moved from one square, however, my point was not that God and the Void are necessarily equal, but the fact that this "true one God" is one with the Void, not in Heaven or any places inside Creation, which will be shown in the next point to debunk this absurdity of claiming the opposite.
Just because you require more mental gymnastic for you to understand it (being an ignoramus reader or in denial), does not mean no explanation were provided.
This point is not even a point if it was not adressed to begin with. There is not post of mine claiming that the Presence was talking "about a true form of himself", in contrary if you paid attention.
