- 2,628
- 519
The thing is, Puss didn’t really defeat Death. The latter just decided to let him go after the former accepted their mortality and appreciated life
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Puss in Boots: The Last Wish Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Foxthefox1000
- Start date
- 2,628
- 519
Speaking of Death, I believe his tiering should be 'At least 8-C, likely higher' due to the fact that he’s visually superior to Puss, besting the aforementioned character in their first encounter to the point of him literally fleeing in fear. He also stated (in Spanish) that he was only toying with Puss the whole time, which implies that he was holding back during the entire film and that we haven’t seen his full power unfold. He’s honestly already one of the most powerful characters in the Shrek universe.
- 3,119
- 619
I mean if this was like, any other character than the literal physical manifestation of Death, who would still be controlling the concept in itself, such as times, in what ways etc, then i'd agree but given the whole theme of the movie was Puss defying his death in the end, literally, then it feels like it should be somewhat mentioned somewhere.
Death was 'playing with his food', which is fair, but he clearly didn't change his mind out of respect or anything, and like literal Death, No one has escaped him before, except Puss (and this should be a long time given the concept of Death has probs been alive since whenever the Shrek Universe brought about life. Given its a universe with a huge collection of Fairy Tales and fictional accounts, I'd imagine that could even be further back than irl but i digress).
It was completely unprecedented for Death to lose this bout, but Puss made it happen through his change in the entire movie. It wasn't like Death specifically lost the fight and thats why he spared Puss, but more Puss soul changed to the point Death couldn't collect it anymore. As a concept, he is likely bound by a lot of strict rules we can compare to real life death, rather than him getting to just kill whoever he wants instantly at anytime.
Death was frustrated at this fact, which just shows he didn't want to spare him, and that Puss had been the first one to defy it himself. Whether that goes under Fate manipulation or not, theres definitely a more underlying theme than Literal Death suddenly gaining sympathy and respecting Puss for changing, and more Puss' literal ability to change himself and his Life became that of a reason Death couldnt kill him now. And the only reason this change was brought about was that Death was enjoying the chase, since he resented Puss' other Seven lifes going against his concept and being narcissistic about it. We even see Death peer deeper in the soul before he let Puss go, giving a more literal account of Puss actually changing on a deeper level than outwardly (Because i doubt literal Death could only see physically and be able to tell from Puss physical stare.
- 1,671
- 280
I agree with this.
- 1,671
- 280
Tbf we were discussing having separate keys for his Spinoff and Shrek flim. So Death would only scale to Spin-off.
In terms of if he was holding back, I think playing with his food is referring to the fact he even created a wolf form in the first place when he was chasing someone who didn’t even deny death by the end of the flim.
Death knew that Puss would’ve died either by old age or his own arrogant behaviour. Death was just playing with his “victims” (He says victims because they’ll eventually die), by creating a wolf form so he could do it himself.
- 1,671
- 280
Thing is, Death is never shown to control how people die. He’s just the real universe way Death works, they die when something happens. In this case, Death is trying to kill him in a wolf form. Death in this movie never controlled the concept, he just the conscience of that concept. So he made his own form to kill someone. Throughout the movie he’s never shown to manipulate the concept of death to suit him.
His fun with his “victims” are because he knows they’re going to die. Everyone is his victim, Puss was going to die but that isn’t planning his fate or using powers. Everyone dies, and that’s all that mattered to death. His fun was just wanting to kill Puss himself, but he needed a physical form, not powers. He didn’t kill Puss not because of rules, but because he realized his playing was all for nothing. Puss learned his lesson.
This is all stems on Fate manipulating which Death is never shown to have. Death is a concept, but killing is different. Disease, other people, aging, kill people. Death has no control over that, however when they are killed that’s when they are officially dead. No one can escape that, that’s why no one has ever escaped him. Common misconception Death was talking about was people thinking things would last forever, thinking they can beat Death. But it's never happened cause no one is immortal.
Last edited:
Liquid_Bigb0ss
He/Him- 110
- 83
This seems like it'll be a lost cause. The puss and boots movie seems to tie in with Shrek, and puss was literally sailing back to far far away at the end of the 2nd movie.
- 1,671
- 280
- 15,892
- 5,805
I’m Death.
Straight. Up.
15/10 movie.
If anyone hasn’t, I’ve already started a Death sandbox.
Straight. Up.
15/10 movie.
If anyone hasn’t, I’ve already started a Death sandbox.
- 15,892
- 5,805
Definitely making some changes.
- 3,119
- 619
He's literal Death. We see he isn't the reason for all of Puss' previous deaths, other than his presence for each life was just what had caused it, Case in point, how he was there everytime Puss was about to die shortly after. The fact he's around is already setting into fate that someone is gonna die, until Puss was able to be spared and deft his Death. If Death is coming for you, then its merely fate, which Puss was able to defy
Death would be generally fate, given its an abstract concept. He embodies the meaning, and controls all of Death itself at least outside the wolf form he uses to interact with Puss (Cant recall Kitty or Perro even witnessing Death, only seeing some sort of 'fight' behind those flames). Death is always there when someones about to die, like how he was there for Puss' previous lives, without having to lift a finger. If Death has come for you, then you're dead.
No one has ever escaped him, as Death in itself is inevitable yes, except Puss. Which is why it should be noted somewhere he was able to avoid and defy Death's encounter, and make Death unable to take his changed soul.
- 1,542
- 2,055
I made that blog, but I was tired when I made it and it was more out of boredom, so it's pretty bad in my opinion. In general I suck in making new pages form nothing, so if someone is able to make another one it would be better.Someone did make a blog, however I would make some changes. So go ahead with making a profile
- 1,671
- 280
I mean it’s not bad at all. I’d just give it some abilities, more info for intelligence, and some changing for “far higher” in AP.
- 41,108
- 35,554
DaReaperMan/Death: PiB
vsbattles.fandom.com
Here's the sandbox for Death I made like, two weeks ago or some shit.
Does it play safe? Yes.
Am I using only things directly noted to be the case or shown? Yes.
Just... a few things I want to say.
First of all, Abstract Existence type 2, for right now, I'm not giving him it, but he could get it if you wanted him to I guess.
Second of all, Invisibility, why doesn't he have it? Well, we see him during the Giant fight, so he could have very easily have just been watching from a distance, making Invisibility less likely then Stealth Mastery.
Third of all, Illusion creation, that shit happened during a panic attack, Puss could have VERY easily have just been seeing shit.
And lastly, Clairvoyance. This one's arguable but I haven't given him it because of no statements or implications, but you can give it to him under possibly or likely if you really want to.
Also as for Puss scaling to Death, the dude was casual the entire time and was basically unphased by Puss' hits, sure he got knocked back a couple times, but that doesn't mean he was really damaged per say, since he seems unharmed and unbothered afte the fight.
- 15,892
- 5,805
Also, the argument of Puss not scaling to the Giant makes… no sense. Even if we want to assert that Puss is superior with a sword (which actually is consistently substantiated by the movie), or perhaps his sword possess a higher AP (somehow), he stabs him twice, and elicits a groan of agony twice. The giant is made of rock, so it’s not as if he has weak points such as pressure points to be exploited or softer flesh to target.
Even Puss slamming his eyepatch into him momentarily staggers him, long enough for him to be slammed by the bell, which was his plan. Overall, I see no legitimate reason why Puss does not scale.
Even Puss slamming his eyepatch into him momentarily staggers him, long enough for him to be slammed by the bell, which was his plan. Overall, I see no legitimate reason why Puss does not scale.
- 41,108
- 35,554
Piercing damage. Lol.
- 15,892
- 5,805
And?
- 41,108
- 35,554
If I had a nickel for every time I've seen people try to give people a stronger tier for piercing damage, I'd probably have a dollar, which is strange since Puss' sword is even better then an arrow in piercing damage.
- 15,892
- 5,805
Are you going to refute my argument or are you going to continue with your personal analogies?
- 41,108
- 35,554
I am, you wanna scale Puss to stabbing a dude with his sword?
Though I will admit the eye patch thing is a bit tricky and I'd have to fully rewatch the scene to try to go against it
- 15,892
- 5,805
If you couldn’t tell by the message that started this conversation, yes, I actually do.
- 41,108
- 35,554
All right, now you're debating the sword ****** on swords, let's go.
Puss's Rapier, especially seeing as it's mace for his size, is an insanely good piercing damage weapon, a thinner tip then an arrow makes it, especially since Puss outright scales to arrows(The dude swatted one of the air, what do you expect?) Overtly dangerous to something far larger then Puss, even if that thing is stone and overtly resistant to piercing damage due to it's composition.
Arrows, being 51 m/s, have been known to find gaps in nearly any armor, especially the medieval vareity, all Puss needed was the slightest crevice and he could get his entire sword into the Giant if he really wanted to
- 5,812
- 8,209
So there's (at least) three Death sandboxes? Yeah they definitely needs to be a general agreement here on how the profile will be tiered and most importantly the P&A section (although 8-C seems to be the overall most agreed upon tier).
I will say Death (regardless of what is agreed upon) should always have some degree of enhanced senses (Is literally a wolf, could track Puss regardless of where he was and could smell his fear too).
Death becomes you which is fitting considering the PFP and name.
I will say Death (regardless of what is agreed upon) should always have some degree of enhanced senses (Is literally a wolf, could track Puss regardless of where he was and could smell his fear too).
DaReaperMan/Death: PiB
Here's the sandbox for Death I made like, two weeks ago or some shit.
Does it play safe? Yes.
Am I using only things directly noted to be the case or shown? Yes.
Just... a few things I want to say.
First of all, Abstract Existence type 2, for right now, I'm not giving him it, but he could get it if you wanted him to I guess.
Second of all, Invisibility, why doesn't he have it? Well, we see him during the Giant fight, so he could have very easily have just been watching from a distance, making Invisibility less likely then Stealth Mastery.
Third of all, Illusion creation, that shit happened during a panic attack, Puss could have VERY easily have just been seeing shit.
And lastly, Clairvoyance. This one's arguable but I haven't given him it because of no statements or implications, but you can give it to him under possibly or likely if you really want to.
Also as for Puss scaling to Death, the dude was casual the entire time and was basically unphased by Puss' hits, sure he got knocked back a couple times, but that doesn't mean he was really damaged per say, since he seems unharmed and unbothered afte the fight.
- 41,108
- 35,554
Enhanced Senses, I forgot that shit lmfao
- 15,892
- 5,805
I don’t care.
Serves my point.
Okay, you’ve now made a positive claim. Now, show me where in that entire fight where Puss found a single crevice to exploit against the Giant. Because as far as I’m understanding, there isn’t a crevice in your shoulder, and your thumb tip.
- 41,108
- 35,554
Quite simple actually, that giant was not smooth stone, if it was, different subject entirely, can't really argue against it, but even if the crevice was as small as one of Puss' hairs in width, it would be enough for his sword to catch onto and not slide, that's the thing about smooth armor and the like, and why trying to stab someone in it is about the most braindesd idea ever, the sword is gonna slide and Puss' in this case did not, either that means that's a crevice he found or the animators didn't think about that shit and just wanted to have a cool action scene.
We could probably do either or lol
- 41,108
- 35,554
Oh, also, I applied enhanced senses to my Death sandbox.
Come on its clearly the best one I even referenced it
- 15,892
- 5,805
A complete and utter unsubstantiated headcanon. Show me an instance where he purposely, or even more charitably, unknowingly, exploited a crevice to damage the giant in the two stabs he effectively landed on him. You’re presupposing a black and white fallacy with nothing to back up the former assertion.
- 41,108
- 35,554
Let's start with the most obvious one.
The thumb is... I mean there's literally a fingernail, that's a HUUUUUUUGE crevice to stick a weapon into, you could pack your lunch in there!
The shoulder is less obvious but there is grass growing there, putting weak spots all over the place, could argue that's moss, but seeing as how it's growing I'm more inclined to say it's grass personally
- 15,892
- 5,805
There’s no crevice between your thumb and your nail. They’re attached. That’s why removing your nail from your fingers leaves room from infection.
Grass commonly grows on stone. It was literally attached to the town. I have no reason to believe it was a grassy weak patch with no stone underneath, especially because the onus is on you to prove that’s a weak spot.
- 41,108
- 35,554
That's on a human. This is a stone giant. In fact being connected doesn't disqualify it from being a crevice to stick a sword into to cause damage.
And said Grass weakens the stone, remember that the roots gotta go somewhere, and Nature has no qualms ramming it through a rock to get shitndone.
- 41,108
- 35,554
Also, rewatching the fight RQ, Puss's eye patch thing was... TBH just rubber banding it
- 15,892
- 5,805
The giant very clearly resembles a human figure. I think that’s enough to substantiate my assumption that it’s mimicked human features work the same.
If that’s the case, he wouldn’t have groaned out in pain. If the grass was truly constantly eroding it, it would’ve been in constant pain, which isn’t proven by anything.
That doesn’t really matter. He made it stagger and stun, long enough for Puss to have the bell hit him.
- 41,108
- 35,554
And... that doesn't disqualify it from being a crevice to stick a sword into? Again?
Do research on such subjects please, the grass isn't eroding the stone it's just literally grown into the stone, and the giant could have very easily just... not been in pain from that. Puss' sword is going to be longer and larger then the roots of that grass.
Your other arguments, I can get, but this... are you telling me that Puss, using momentum, swinging around while holding onto an eye patch, before letting it go onto the giant's eye, scales to his purely physical AP? Puss wouldn't even scale to the KE of that, it's decent LS for sure but it sure as shit ain't AP
Abu2411
He/Him- 1,369
- 632
To really stick and splinter something into a fingernail, you've got to pierce the tissue which connects the nail to the tip. Since the giant is made of stone, Puss would be stabbing through stone, which itself would be resistant to piercing damage.
What supports this is that Puss later is able to stab the giant again without making use of any crevice or weak-point.
I mean, he pulls the eye-patch down using his own strength and it visibly staggers the giant and causes pain.
- 41,108
- 35,554
However Puss is stabbing a more... effective spot with his sword to get into, TBH its more of a feat that his sword does go in like that lmfao
You mean the grassy shoulder which is weaker stone(with a bunch of crevices) because of the roots in it?
When does he do that? Cause everything I saw in a quick rewatch with the eye patch was definitely NOT Puss' AP at work with the eye patch
Abu2411
He/Him- 1,369
- 632
Yeah since the giant is made of stone, not organic tissue, I don't see how that part wouldn't be as hard as the rest of his body.
Even if the stone were being eroded deep within the giant (which would be really painful lol) the stone nearer to the surface wouldn't be as affected by it. Puss still stabs his sword through the stone.
It's more that he grabbed the eye patch and let it go with enough force it staggered and harmed the giant.
- 41,108
- 35,554
True enough
When did I say the roots were deep in the giant? I just said that there were roots, and seeing as the grass isn't all that tall, the roots ain't very deep, and Puss only got his sword halfway in even with that help from mother nature
Thats... not AP. Puss rubber banded it with the assistance of what the eye patch was held on with
Abu2411
He/Him- 1,369
- 632
Actually, Puss gets more than half his sword in. So even if the roots weren't that deep, like a few inches or so he still had enough force to go deep.
Also, I watched the fight at 0.25 speed and noticed Puss stabs an area of stone that isn't covered in grass completely.
If the material that the eye patch was made of was tight enough to harm the giant, then Puss was still able to bend and stretch it with his strength.
Similar threads
