Puss in Boots: The Last Wish Discussion Thread

[Jinx666]

K i aint staying here for ages

-Death wasn't 'wrong' about anything, Death was purposefully letting Puss run and 'playing with his food', which evidently gave Puss the chance to change and escape his fate of death. 'Limited Fate Manipulation' is what i was going for in general, but its still an ability that he can limitedly go against pre-determined destinies, such as his death date (Death is a pretty common thing to touch upon in fiction)

-Dont really get what your point is here, but Death was definitely frustrated at the fact he had let Puss go, and Puss was no longer the arrogant soul he was looking for. He didn't do it out of mercy or respect for Puss, and its definitely going to happen later on, but instead Puss was able to defy Death's will (Whose actually Death, no matter what physical avatar its using), and as such it should be significant.

-Yeah im fine with his 'physical' form being scaled. I was only touching on a possible Unknown Tier because its very clearly implied that Death is something else beyond the wolf its portraying, and a concept in itself. We can scale him to Puss easily but Unknown cause he clearly is still very unknown.

Im not arguing abt how he can be scaled in wolf form, thats completely fine whatever, but more abt Limited Fate Manipulation, or whatever Puss did to literally escape his death, mentioned on his profile. Cause its a pretty solid feat, and clearly something that was caused because of Puss' actions and change, rather than Death deciding to 'let him go' willfully.

 

[Kyleb79]

K i aint staying here for ages

-Death wasn't 'wrong' about anything, Death was purposefully letting Puss run and 'playing with his food', which evidently gave Puss the chance to change and escape his fate of death. 'Limited Fate Manipulation' is what i was going for in general, but its still an ability that he can limitedly go against pre-determined destinies, such as his death date (Death is a pretty common thing to touch upon in fiction)

Not sure how applicable it is to actual matchups cause all he's doing is changing their mind. Death's way is nothing magical or fate-changing. It's just him killing him with a weapon. A death date is different because it's on a spiritual level of magic, but here Death is just trying to stab him.

-Dont really get what your point is here, but Death was definitely frustrated at the fact he had let Puss go, and Puss was no longer the arrogant soul he was looking for. He didn't do it out of mercy or respect for Puss, and its definitely going to happen later on, but instead Puss was able to defy Death's will (Whose actually Death, no matter what physical avatar its using), and as such it should be significant.

The thing is, he defied the will of a physical manifestation trying to kill him, which is completely different. The wolf not killing him is because he realizes Puss isn't an arrogant soul like you said, but he's convincing a physical conscience with what he says. Death was convinced, and Puss did nothing but explain his motive. You don't need powers to change and change his mind.

Yeah im fine with his 'physical' form being scaled. I was only touching on a possible Unknown Tier because its very clearly implied that Death is something else beyond the wolf its portraying, and a concept in itself. We can scale him to Puss easily but Unknown cause he clearly is still very unknown.

Not sure if we need any keys. Death is basically just a conscient abstract, abstracts don't need tiers cause they follow the normal rules of the verse. His ability, however being abstract is still present and usable in matchups cause if you destroy his physical body, he still exists.

Im not arguing abt how he can be scaled in wolf form, thats completely fine whatever, but more abt Limited Fate Manipulation, or whatever Puss did to literally escape his death, mentioned on his profile. Cause its a pretty solid feat, and clearly something that was caused because of Puss' actions and change, rather than Death deciding to 'let him go' willfully.

Which was accepted consciously by Death cause Puss changed. The way it works is also completely different, Death decided to chase after and kill him with physical attributes. But he isn't consciously changing the fate of these characters, he just got involved and decided what he'll make of their fate but not in any way power-wise. Puss denying a conscient being was through natural means of talking. Death let him go out of acceptance of no longer being arrogant, that was a personality change, and Death didn't see it coming. Nothing implies these were powers.

 

[ThanatosX]

I disagree, there is no Fate Manipulation in any of this. Death wanted to kill Puss because he wasted all of his eight lives, and so he believed that he didn't deserve to live his last life since he would waste it too. However, during their final confrontation, Death understands that Puss changed and it's not the arrogant cat that wasted all of his lives, so he decides to spare him to let him live his last life until his actual death arrives.
Puss wasn't destined to die in that occassion, it's Death that believed he didn't deserve to die and so he wanted to kill him. Puss was just able to change his mind so that he wouldn't kill him in that occasion, he will still due when it's the time, as Death himself says, but before that Death decided to let him live his last life. Giving Puss Fate Manipulation, limited or not, wouldn't make sense to me.

 

[Jackythejack]

Shrek revisions went through and now Puss is tier 8 lol

 

[Kyleb79]

I disagree, there is no Fate Manipulation in any of this. Death wanted to kill Puss because he wasted all of his eight lives, and so he believed that he didn't deserve to live his last life since he would waste it too. However, during their final confrontation, Death understands that Puss changed and it's not the arrogant cat that wasted all of his lives, so he decides to spare him to let him live his last life until his actual death arrives.
Puss wasn't destined to die in that occassion, it's Death that believed he didn't deserve to die and so he wanted to kill him. Puss was just able to change his mind so that he wouldn't kill him in that occasion, he will still due when it's the time, as Death himself says, but before that Death decided to let him live his last life. Giving Puss Fate Manipulation, limited or not, wouldn't make sense to me.

Yeah, I agree with this.

 

[Kyleb79]

Shrek revisions went through and now Puss is tier 8 lol

Death vs Kung Fu Panda; immediately.

 

[SuperStar]

Shrek revisions went through and now Puss is tier 8 lol

Can you link it?

 

[Jackythejack]

profile for proof

upgrade thread

 

[ThanatosX]

Shrek revisions went through and now Puss is tier 8 lol

Great, didn't know that it was applied! Then there is no need to calculate Death destroying the crystals anymore. In a very rough calculation I did today, the result was 9-A, lower than 8-C, so at best it can be a supporting feat and nothing more.

 

[Antoniofer]

Not a fan of Shrek, but I did enjoy few of his movies, and this one was pretty great.

As for the upgrade in that thread, I have my issues, like the calculations used for examples: stone/concrete fragmentation for destroying a cookie house, or assuming the dragon vaporizing metal armor when the remains could have simply been pushed away by the blast (or even, that the soldier was not even burned, and instead devoured).

As for the current movie (to not divert for the actual movie), Puss do not really scale to the Giant (except of course, to speed), he didn't do real damage to the Giant, just caused him pain by sticking his sword under its nail, and due Wolf nature, is difficult to directly scale Puss to him. Plus, you forget a essential issue with the movie: how Puss died several times, like falling from great height, killed by dogs, crushed by both weights and a bell, and blew up by a cannon; that kind of stuff that work as anti-feats.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

As for the current movie (to not divert for the actual movie), Puss do not really scale to the Giant (except of course, to speed), he didn't do real damage to the Giant, just caused him pain by sticking his sword under its nail, and due Wolf nature, is difficult to directly scale Puss to him. Plus, you forget a essential issue with the movie: how Puss died several times, like falling from great height, killed by dogs, crushed by both weights and a bell, and blew up by a cannon; that kind of stuff that work as anti-feats.

In the final battle he showed to face a serious Wolf without problem, so he definitely scale to him after his journey. Regarding his deaths, they happened when he was distracted as comic gag so I wouldn't really consider them as anti-feats compared with all the other serious scenes where he fight and receive attacks from things considerably more dangerous.

 

[Antoniofer]

Those "gags" actually took his lives, so I would not consider them gags even though they were presented as something funny; and being distracted is not something that decrease the durability (plus, he was only distracted with the bell's death, and by the falling if any, cuz he was drunk).

 

[Kyleb79]

Those "gags" actually took his lives, so I would not consider them gags even though they were presented as something funny; and being distracted is not something that decrease the durability (plus, he was only distracted with the bell's death, and by the falling if any, cuz he was drunk).

They are gags but narratively, a final fight scene that concludes his arc is stronger than a gag scene that was supposed to make the audience laugh. He was beaten by fodder level thug dogs in one of those scenes, despite showing previous mastery of destroying a giant and being up with the most wanted. Even then he would still get likely for scaling to the wolf. Even then in all of these scenes he didn’t care about his life and lived a legend, which is why the Wolf beat him so easily the first time. Second encounter when he fought determined to keep his life, he was then able to fight him on good and serious terms.

The nature of the wolf is easy to describe. Death is a conscience abstract that does what it does in the normal world, which is why everyone always loses cause they are a mortal. Cause everyone dies.

However, the Wolf is a physical version Of himself that he created/manifested (doesn’t matter how he came). That specifically chased Puss due to being a cat that thought was immortal and wasted his lives. Since he is an abstract, he plays with his victims by using this form. So in matchups, he essentially is the wolf, but if his physical manifestation is destroyed. He exists still conscient as an abstract. So Puss scales to the physical version.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

At the very least let's try fixing/adding the blogs and updating the P&A sections for a future CRT (since 8-C has been approved). I've already noticed Puss is missing Acrobatics, I do believe a key split might work as well (Shrek movies W/nine lives and Puss movies W/O nine lives).

Also Jack with all his "stuff" is definitely worthy (not of Excalibur ofc) of a profile too.

 

[Jackythejack]

I'll leave a quick comment to say idk how relevant ressurection would be during a vs thread itself; the one time we see Puss actually die and what happened thereafter, he seemed to have been out for a while.

 

[Kyleb79]

At the very least let's try fixing/adding the blogs and updating the P&A sections for a future CRT (since 8-C has been approved). I've already noticed Puss is missing Acrobatics, I do believe a key split might work as well (Shrek movies W/nine lives and Puss movies W/O nine lives).

Also Jack with all his "stuff" is definitely worthy (not of Excalibur ofc) of a profile too.

For the key thing we should probably just split with “Shrek Movies” and “Spin-offs” to make it easier.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

For the key thing we should probably just split with “Shrek Movies” and “Spin-offs” to make it easier.

Perhaps a “Pre-Shrek Forever After | Post Shrek Forever After/Puss In Boots 2?” This probably isn’t ideal as I haven’t seen any of the spin off shows and we don’t really have a time frame on his deaths took place other than Gingy being present in one of them.

I thought I would bring up this option although it’s not ideal

 

[Kyleb79]

Perhaps a “Pre-Shrek Forever After | Post Shrek Forever After/Puss In Boots 2?” This probably isn’t ideal as I haven’t seen any of the spin off shows and we don’t really have a time frame on his deaths took place other than Gingy being present in one of them.

I thought I would bring up this option although it’s not ideal

I think it’s less time frames and more just how they are portrayed. If the Spinoffs had a 8-C feat, I don’t think there’d even need a key.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'm already downloading it on steam green, I hope it's good.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Perhaps a “Pre-Shrek Forever After | Post Shrek Forever After/Puss In Boots 2?” This probably isn’t ideal as I haven’t seen any of the spin off shows and we don’t really have a time frame on his deaths took place other than Gingy being present in one of them.

I thought I would bring up this option although it’s not ideal

No, that sounds actually quite bad, a simple Shrek movies | Spin-offs is far better since it accomplish the objetive of separate the keys and in a considerably more intuitive way.

I think it’s less time frames and more just how they are portrayed. If the Spinoffs had a 8-C feat, I don’t think there’d even need a key.

No, the different key would still be there, the point of the different key are some different abilities, a different personality not arrogant (so a weakness less), and better combat feats from fighting and match/win against death.

 

[Tonygameman]

And he's got a respect thread, marked cause spoilers.

 

[ShionAH]

Big Jack Horner: He has a ton of hax that ignore durability like the Unicorn Horns, Size manipulation and a lot more. He will be “Possibly 5-B (Maybe more if its calced) with all of the magic in the world” He was destroying the entire planet by existing

 

[Jackythejack]

He will be “Possibly 5-B (Maybe more if its calced) with all of the magic in the world” He was destroying the entire planet by existing

he never got all the magic in the world so no he won't

 

[ShionAH]

he never got all the magic in the world so no he won't

Potential tiering is not restricted. We discussed this

 

[Jackythejack]

I have never seen a profile with potential tiering.

He's literally never obtained it. I don't see why he'd have a key for it.

 

[ShionAH]

I have never seen a profile with potential tiering.

We discussed this? Someone else showed you 3 different profiles with potential tiering?

 

[Jackythejack]

Very different contexts. Lavos is seemingly something that we know would happen and is an eventuality if not stopped for whatever reason, and Shredder doesn't have one.

It's not an eventuality that Jack will obtain all the magic in the world. he dies before he gets it. It's something that he is trying to get but he never does get.

There are people that we just don't give things to even if they do obtain them. MCU Iron Man doesn't have 3-A via a complete guantlet, even though he's outright used it.

Jack died before he could get all the magic in the world. he doesn't get a tier off of it.

 

[ShionAH]

Very different contexts. Lavos is seemingly something that we know would happen and is an eventuality if not stopped for whatever reason, and Shredder doesn't have one.

It's not an eventuality that Jack will obtain all the magic in the world. he dies before he gets it. It's something that he is trying to get but he never does get.

There are people that we just don't give things to even if they do obtain them. MCU Iron Man doesn't have 3-A via a complete guantlet, even though he's outright used it.

Jack died before he could get all the magic in the world. he doesn't get a tier off of it.

I belive he needs it. We can discuss it later

 

[Jackythejack]

this is the exact place to discuss it lol.

Jack shouldn't get it.

Anyways I'll be making a profile for Softpaws and Jack later. I've been busy with college.

 

[ShionAH]

this is the exact place to discuss it lol.

...i said later since I am busy right now

Jack shouldn't get it.

We can like I aaid discuss it, I want it since it gives a lot of matchup possibilitys

Anyways I'll be making a profile for Softpaws and Jack later. I've been busy with college.

Oh nice I respect that a lot! I can help you if you want

 

[Liquid_Bigb0ss]

I’m curious to see a calc on the feat where puss gets sent flying through several stone walls by the giant and casually tanks it (tho idk if it would actually scale to his durability since his back was covered by the billboard thing)

 

[ShionAH]

I’m curious to see a calc on the feat where puss gets sent flying through several stone walls by the giant and casually tanks it (tho idk if it would actually scale to his durability since his back was covered by the billboard thing)

Puss didn't get hurt because of the billboard so nope it won't work

 

[Liquid_Bigb0ss]

Puss didn't get hurt because of the billboard so nope it won't work

Wack

 

[Jackythejack]

yeah there's not many other feats to look at. We should probably try to find a speed feat that he could scale to.

 

[Mephistus]

Jack shouldn't get it.

Big boi

 

[Jackythejack]

Yeah but like

that never happened lol. He never got all the magic in the world. We don't give a character a tier because of this item that they want but never get

 

[Liquid_Bigb0ss]

Yeah but like

that never happened lol. He never got all the magic in the world. We don't give a character a tier because of this item that they want but never get

I agree with this. Plus we don’t actually know what would happen if he got all the magic either way, besides just what he THINKS would magic.

 

[ShionAH]

I agree with this. Plus we don’t actually know what would happen if he got all the magic either way, besides just what he THINKS would magic.

Actually. The ball shows the future and its not just a thinking thing. So it is the truth since jack isnt the one saying it

 

[Liquid_Bigb0ss]

Actually. The ball shows the future and its not just a thinking thing. So it is the truth since jack isnt the one saying it

Do they actually explain what the ball does besides just showing it do things? Because I thought it was just a vague all-seeing orb.

 

[ShionAH]

Do they actually explain what the ball does besides just showing it do things? Because I thought it was just a vague all-seeing orb.

I dont think they do but it is supposed to be fortune thing right? Should be same as the fairy counterpart, anyways I also dont see why the ball would lie