Puella Magi Verse High 1-B Upgrade (Redux)

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Remaking the thread since the previous one got ignored. I will lists the TLDR versions for both arguments that supports and against the upgrade.

Support:

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Tetrahedron infinite layers hierarchies

A Tetrahedron stated to be made out of "4 dimensional structure" shown to contains layers of infinite tetrahedron, with each layers contains endless amount of tetrahedron surrounding each layers. The tetrahedron shown to indicating uncountably infinite difference with how a location is being described as a "dot".

Against:

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The main argument for this side is how the tetrahedron hierarchy is a "downward hierarchies", therefore it's not qualified as High 1-B structure. There is also an argument about how the Tetrahedron being made out of a "4 dimensional" structure cannot possibly contains infinite layers of hierarchy and the "descent" that happened in the scans is more akin to "infinite descent within 4-D space" rather than "Infinite descent within High 1-B space".

Footnote

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If there is something that I miss or simply worded badly, it was genuinely unintentional. Staff inputs would be highly appreciated.

Agree: @Phoenks @Spectra_Schiffer @Setsuna_tenma @Kisaragi_Megumi @Kwk258 @BestMGQScalerEver @Lynieryz @Unqver @Leafbladie @Shadowbeast @deonment @Robo432343 @Gonzalo @Zencha9 @Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl @LordGriffin1000 @Maverick_Zero_X @Benimōru @Reiner04 @ShivaShakti @Jinsye @DarkDragonMedeus @Jozaysmith?

Disagree: @marosuke @Georredannea15 @Deagonx @Everything12 @PrinceofPein

Neutral: @Delta333

 

[Phoenks]

I agree with High 1-B for the reasons that @ShivaShakti and @deonment gave on the last thread.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

 

[AdamVhenJP]

Following

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree as well

 

[Kwk258]

agree

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Agreed tbh

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[Unqver]

As the initiator in the beginning, I'm sure I agree.

 

[Leafbladie]

Agree

 

[Shadowbeast]

As discussed in the last mess thread, i agree with this.

 

[deonment]

I agree with High 1-B for the reasons that @ShivaShakti and @deonment gave on the last thread.

You know I was wondering for a moment why I had gotten pinged here, thinking that it was gonna be a mass ping. Thankfully it was not.

Agree for the reasons I, what Shiva posted, and Jinsye had stated on the last thread.

 

[marosuke]

I took this "Infinite layers hierarchies" is just exaggerated words. It doesn't mean minimizing other tetrahedron, the loop of falling show these size and distance isnt infinite.
Assuming the speed of a person falling is around 290 km/h (180 mph), She could move to next tetrahedron.
I guess this is size manipulation. Im sorry I disagree.

 

[Unqver]

I took this 'Infinite layers hierarchies' is just exaggerated words. It doesn't mean trivializing other tetrahedron, it continues the loop of shrinking and generating tetrahedra.
I put this she started getting smaller while falling. This is why she could kept falling in 3D space infinitely. I have no idea other way to make this sense. I guess this is size manipulation. Im sorry I disagree.

What kind of 3D space has infinite time series, which is described as Aristotelian worldview

 

[Robo432343]

agree

 

[Gonzalo]

I agree

 

[Zencha9]

agree

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Bump

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

As a follower of Madokaism, I'm the Madoka's first follower totally agree with the upgrade.

 

[Phoenks]

Unbold my name. I am not staff here. Lol.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Unbold my name. I am not staff here. Lol.

Content Mods is still a wiki staff, but very well.

 

[deonment]

Content Mods is still a wiki staff, but very well.

They are only a Mod for FC/OC, not VSBW

 

[Phoenks]

It is for FC/OC only, doesn't extend to the VSBW side of things. Also, even VSBW content mods apparently don't have voting rights (Extremely weird but it is what it is).

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Did someone forward this to the moderators who deal with high tier?

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

It is for FC/OC only, doesn't extend to the VSBW side of things. Also, even VSBW content mods apparently don't have voting rights (Extremely weird but it is what it is).

Ah, alright then.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Since it mentions outside the 4d structure as well, I'm inclined to agree with High 1-B over the interpretation that it's just infinite layers downward inside the structure only. But don't discuss Tier 1 stuff anymore so there isn't much I can comment on but right now I think it's acceptable.

 

[Robo432343]

if its infinite layers downward then it cant be tier 1
it would be tier 11

 

[Shadowbeast]

if its infinite layers downward then it cant be tier 1
it would be tier 11

OP forgot that there is another infinite hierarchy that is outside the infinite hierarchy inside the tetrahedron, formed in the same level of the original tetrahedron to surround the entire structure. Instead of creating infinite descending layers, it creates upper layers that cover the original tetrahedron. There isn't only an infinite downard.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

As on the previous thread, I agree with High 1-B.

 

[Georredannea15]

I still disagree like with the previous thread, everybody is talking about 4-D as an infinite ascent, but what they are missing is that in 4-D there is an infinite fall before the infinite ascent, and after the infinite fall there is an infinite ascent. In fact, nothing is changing and everything is happening within the 4-D structure.

First there is a decline and then there is a rise, this is part 1.

The 2nd part is this "point" situation;

In the 2nd part there are 2 doubtful and insufficient points, one of them is the context in which the "point" is used here, and the other is whether this point is used for the layers or for the difference between her and Tethatron.

The statement here clearly states that "the closer you get to that point, the bigger it gets and the louder the sound that comes from it gets."

In fact, when we look at this whole expression "point", it is clear that the situation is not really seen as a "point" in the sense of existence, it is only seen as a point from a certain distance, and it gets bigger as you get closer.


So if we illustrate the difference here in a simple way;

An example would be a dot you draw on a piece of paper and the stars that you see as small as a dot from a distance, and the closer you get to them, the bigger they get. This is not a reference to a difference in existence. Apart from that, there is only one reference to the difference between the layers, and that is that the difference is infinite.


Another one is that while these falling layers are rising infinitely, the points of his body are rising, so in fact the relationship here is not a difference between the layers, but the difference between her and Tethatron. (It would be healthier to discuss Low 1-C actually)

Let me rephrase, I'm not denying that there is definitely an ascension here and that's clear, but before the ascension with these infinite layers, there is a fall in the infinite layers and after the fall the infinite layers rise as dots in her body, what actually happens is that it goes back to the level it was at before the fall. You can actually think of it as repeating where it is.

 

[Unqver]

I still disagree like with the previous thread, everybody is talking about 4-D as an infinite ascent, but what they are missing is that in 4-D there is an infinite fall before the infinite ascent, and after the infinite fall there is an infinite ascent. In fact, nothing is changing and everything is happening within the 4-D structure.

First there is a decline and then there is a rise, this is part 1.

The 2nd part is this "point" situation;

In the 2nd part there are 2 doubtful and insufficient points, one of them is the context in which the "point" is used here, and the other is whether this point is used for the layers or for the difference between her and Tethatron.

The statement here clearly states that "the closer you get to that point, the bigger it gets and the louder the sound that comes from it gets."

In fact, when we look at this whole expression "point", it is clear that the situation is not really seen as a "point" in the sense of existence, it is only seen as a point from a certain distance, and it gets bigger as you get closer.


So if we illustrate the difference here in a simple way;

An example would be a dot you draw on a piece of paper and the stars that you see as small as a dot from a distance, and the closer you get to them, the bigger they get. This is not a reference to a difference in existence. Apart from that, there is only one reference to the difference between the layers, and that is that the difference is infinite.


Another one is that while these falling layers are rising infinitely, the points of his body are rising, so in fact the relationship here is not a difference between the layers, but the difference between her and Tethatron. (It would be healthier to discuss Low 1-C actually)

Let me rephrase, I'm not denying that there is definitely an ascension here and that's clear, but before the ascension with these infinite layers, there is a fall in the infinite layers and after the fall the infinite layers rise as dots in her body, what actually happens is that it goes back to the level it was at before the fall. You can actually think of it as repeating where it is.

かきねていと :どこに落下するっていうの？ 正四面体のなかへ。【無限の階層】をいつまでも落ち続けている。【無限に深い点から、正四面体が発生し、無限に遠くへと去っていく】。
If you ask me, where are you going to fall? into the frontal tetrahedron. The infinite hierarchy continues to fall forever. (The rectangular body is generated from infinite deeper points, leaving infinitely far away.If you ask me, where are you going to fall? into the frontal tetrahedron. The infinite hierarchy continues to fall forever. (The rectangular body is generated from infinite deeper points, leaving infinitely far away.You started again, I still don't know where you saw the infinite rise.But I don't recommend quarreling in this thread.

 

[Georredannea15]

かきねていと :どこに落下するっていうの？ 正四面体のなかへ。【無限の階層】をいつまでも落ち続けている。【無限に深い点から、正四面体が発生し、無限に遠くへと去っていく】。
If you ask me, where are you going to fall? into the frontal tetrahedron. The infinite hierarchy continues to fall forever. (The rectangular body is generated from infinite deeper points, leaving infinitely far away.If you ask me, where are you going to fall? into the frontal tetrahedron. The infinite hierarchy continues to fall forever. (The rectangular body is generated from infinite deeper points, leaving infinitely far away.You started again, I still don't know where you saw the infinite rise.But I don't recommend quarreling in this thread.

Thanks for that, man. It actually further supported my points.

 

[Unqver]

Thanks for that, man. It actually further supported my points.

Each layer above contains many points and splits more layers? If you have read another book by the author, you will find that he describes the dimension of string theory in the same way.
What is the relationship between the infinity of each layer and the inclusion of each layer, just as a planet in an infinite universe is infinitely far away to it, but is there any restoration of ascending or parallel relationship between them?

 

[Georredannea15]

Each layer above contains many points and splits more layers? If you have read another book by the author, you will find that he describes the dimension of string theory in the same way.

And the closer we get to these points, the bigger these points get. In the case of the difference of existence, nothing like that happens. And I don't know what string theory has to do with it.

 

[Unqver]

Each layer above contains many points and splits more layers? If you have read another book by the author, you will find that he describes the dimension of string theory in the same way.

And the closer we get to these points, the bigger these points get. In the case of the difference of existence, nothing like that happens. And I don't know what string theory has to do with it.

You travel into it from an infinite universe, and you look small and infinitely far away from the outside of the universe.

But you will find it very large in the universe.

 

[Georredannea15]

You travel into it from an infinite universe, and you look small and infinitely far away from the outside of the universe.

But you will find it very large in the universe.

Ahhh... thank you. This is exactly the same as the star example I gave, yes, it is not a difference of existence.

 

[Unqver]

Ahhh... thank you. This is exactly the same as the star example I gave, yes, it is not a difference of existence.

Are you winning spiritually? When you look at the universe at a higher level, the universe is infinite, so you see that everything is infinitely small, but when you go down to this universe, you will find that the universe is infinite.

 

[Benimōru]

Didn't you guys already discuss the same things in the previous thread? There is no need to derail this one and make it 13 pages long.

And for my stance, now that Mav agrees, I don't have much will to disagree. So, yk, count me as a agree

 

[Shadowbeast]

I still disagree like with the previous thread, everybody is talking about 4-D as an infinite ascent, but what they are missing is that in 4-D there is an infinite fall before the infinite ascent, and after the infinite fall there is an infinite ascent. In fact, nothing is changing and everything is happening within the 4-D structure.

You know what "both" means? this is never said... can't believe i will repeat this again, the tetrahedrons are appearing in each point of Kosane's body and the infinitesimally small (lower layer) and boundlessly large tetrahedrons appear simultaneously and evolve her into a singularity. This process occurs in every part of her body due to contacts with lower and higher layers in the labyrinth of tetrahedrons, not because "first there is a descent and then an ascent" bruh, both of those things happen simultaneously and are just lower and higher layers transforming her into a singularity.

Another one is that while these falling layers are rising infinitely, the points of his body are rising, so in fact the relationship here is not a difference between the layers, but the difference between her and Tethatron. (It would be healthier to discuss Low 1-C actually)

The points of her body are rising because she was litarally making contact the lower and higher layers of the tetrahedrons and was becoming a singularity? what do you even mean? this is a difference between the layers, Kosane is the one which explains to us the difference of those layers to the reader.

Besides, those temporal layers which are the infinite time layers of the tetrahedron, are of significant size you know. The time railord stretches out infinitely into the infinite future to the infinite past, working as a train that travels to the infinite routes of reality, so there is a quantitative difference.

If you keep that "4-D can't be Tier 1" then you need to remember that Blue and White which was on the wiki before, was 4-D and 1-A here...