Puella Magi Verse High 1-B Upgrade (Redux)

[Georredannea15]

You know what "both" means? this is never said... can't believe i will repeat this again, the tetrahedrons are appearing in each point of Kosane's body and the infinitesimally small (lower layer) and boundlessly large tetrahedrons appear simultaneously and evolve her into a singularity. This process occurs in every part of her body due to contacts with lower and higher layers in the labyrinth of tetrahedrons, not because "first there is a descent and then an ascent" bruh, both of those things happen simultaneously and are just lower and higher layers transforming her into a singularity.

I don't know if you are aware, but that's what I have been saying all along, but the only problem is that it is not just an ascent, it is a singularity of a fall followed by an equal ascent. And this ascension takes place in the points of her body after the fall. (Basically you don't address this decline and only focus on the ascent)

The point is not referring to existence because the closer you get to it the bigger it gets and also this point thing is referring to the difference between her and Tethatron.

The points of her body are rising because she was litarally making contact the lower and higher layers of the tetrahedrons and was becoming a singularity? what do you even mean? this is a difference between the layers, Kosane is the one which explains to us the difference of those layers to the reader.

Yes, that's the problem, as she comes closer to this point, the point gets bigger and the sound coming from it gets louder, and from that you can understand that there is no difference of existence.


You see the stars as a dot from a distance, but with the difference of existence? Of course not. The closer you get to the stars, the dots gets bigger. It's not difference of existence

Besides, those temporal layers which are the infinite time layers of the tetrahedron, are of significant size you know. The time railord stretches out infinitely into the infinite future to the infinite past, working as a train that travels to the infinite routes of reality, so there is a quantitative difference.

Time is already infinite by default, I don't know if it matters much in this regard. Also, this difference is not a QS. What?

If you keep that "4-D can't be Tier 1" then you need to remember that Blue and White which was on the wiki before, was 4-D and 1-A here...

Ahhh... I never said that.

Even a 2-dimensional stick figure can be 1-A, but when it comes to such cosmological situations, a structure with 4 spatialities or something like that cannot be 1-A.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Guys, let's not turn this into a debate. Just vote and let the staff decide, we don't want this to become like the last thread.

 

[Reiner04]

Looks good.

now that Mav agrees, I don't have much will to disagree.

sus.

 

[Deagonx]

Tetrahedron infinite layers hierarchies

A Tetrahedron stated to be made out of "4 dimensional structure" shown to contains layers of infinite tetrahedron, with each layers contains endless amount of tetrahedron surrounding each layers. The tetrahedron shown to indicating uncountably infinite difference with how a location is being described as a "dot".

I'm a little confused here. Who or what is this upgrading? What's even going on in this scene? With no context it just reads like the character having some sort of acid trip. Are we saying the cosmology is infinite dimensional because of this?

 

[Georredannea15]

I'm a little confused here. Who or what is this upgrading? What's even going on in this scene? With no context it just reads like the character having some sort of acid trip. Are we saying the cosmology is infinite dimensional because of this?

Basically, there is a decrease in infinite layers within the 4-dimensional, and after this fall then a rise in infinite layers.

In the scan, it is stated that as she gets closer to what she sees as a dot, it gets bigger and the sound coming from inside increases, but I think it would be better to see for yourself.

 

[Deagonx]

I did read the scans in the OP, I'm just not clear as to what the premise is. However, I think the scans definitely aren't H1-B.

"The finished product is a 3-D object made of four equilateral triangles, a tetrahedron."

"I notice the light penetrates the tetrahedron, creating shadows inside. I'm not sure we can call them shadows, though, they aren't projected onto a flat surface like a normal shadow, but instead emerge as 3-D objects."

"The shadow forms a smaller tetrahedron inside the original tetrahedron. Upon closer inspection, I can even see smaller and smaller tetrahedrons inside it. Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest. Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it."

In my opinion, this is definitely not High 1-B. The hierarchy of tetrahedrons is described in terms of the relative size of objects that are explicitly described as three dimensional. I don't consider it possible for these "layers" to be interpreted in terms of spatial dimensionality when the tetrahedrons are called three dimensional (both the main tetrahedron and the "shadow" tetrahedrons forming inside of it) and the "layers" are clearly referring to the tetrahedrons themselves like Russian nesting dolls.

I would be a "disagree" for this.

 

[Shadowbeast]

I did read the scans in the OP, I'm just not clear as to what the premise is. However, I think the scans definitely aren't H1-B.

"The finished product is a 3-D object made of four equilateral triangles, a tetrahedron."

"I notice the light penetrates the tetrahedron, creating shadows inside. I'm not sure we can call them shadows, though, they aren't projected onto a flat surface like a normal shadow, but instead emerge as 3-D objects."

"The shadow forms a smaller tetrahedron inside the original tetrahedron. Upon closer inspection, I can even see smaller and smaller tetrahedrons inside it. Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest. Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it."

In my opinion, this is definitely not High 1-B. The hierarchy of tetrahedrons is described in terms of the relative size of objects that are explicitly described as three dimensional. I don't consider it possible for these "layers" to be interpreted in terms of spatial dimensionality when the tetrahedrons are called three dimensional (both the main tetrahedron and the "shadow" tetrahedrons forming inside of it) and the "layers" are clearly referring to the tetrahedrons themselves like Russian nesting dolls.

I would be a "disagree" for this.

It's not truly 3-D, it's just slices of the true forms of the tetrahedrons which are 4-D.

 

[Deagonx]

It's not truly 3-D, it's just slices of the true forms of the tetrahedrons which are 4-D.

If the letter was a "3-D slice of a 4-D structure" and that 3-D slice was folded into the tetrahedron, then it's 3-D. Nothing indicates that the aforementioned "4-D structure" is referring to the tetrahedrons in the first place, and that would contradict both the source material and the definition of a tetrahedron, so I'd need very direct evidence of that in order to accept that interpretation.

 

[Reiner04]

If the letter was a "3-D slice of a 4-D structure" and that 3-D slice was folded into the tetrahedron, then it's 3-D. Nothing indicates that the aforementioned "4-D structure" is referring to the tetrahedrons in the first place, and that would contradict both the source material and the definition of a tetrahedron, so I'd need very direct evidence of that in order to accept that interpretation.

I think the argument is not their Dimensionslity but how their actual described size is in contrast with their given Dimensionslity by author. It seems that author here fails to understand relation btw how infinities correlates with dimensionality and has called infinite tetrahedron which is just point inside another tetrahedron a sequence of 3D structures. Same as how Marvel comics has adapted alephs and infinities wrongly due to whatever misunderstanding author was going through.

 

[Deagonx]

I think the argument is not their Dimensionslity but how their actual described size is in contrast with their given Dimensionslity by author. It seems that author here fails to understand relation btw how infinities correlates with dimensionality and has called infinite tetrahedron which is just point inside another tetrahedron a sequence of 3D structures.

I don't agree that this is supported by the text. The argument goes "an infinite tetrahedron is described as being simply a dot within another infinite tetrahedron thus implying higher dimensionality" but a close examination of the scans reveals that this essentially just isn't true.

The "dot" is not a tetrahedron, and it isn't being described as a "dot" because it is infinitely small, it is because the narrator is describing a traversal of sorts, and when the "dot" appears in their vision they realize that it is an oncoming train. The "dot" is merely the trains light from far away, and then it gets closer and arrives as the narrator realizes they are standing at a train station.

The dot wasn't a tetrahedron, and it was never described in comparison to another tetrahedron. It was just the first thing the narrator noticed in their normal vision as they slowly came to their senses at the train station they were suddenly at.

 

[Shadowbeast]

The "dot" is not a tetrahedron, and it isn't being described as a "dot" because it is infinitely small, it is because the narrator is describing a traversal of sorts, and when the "dot" appears in their vision they realize that it is an oncoming train. The "dot" is merely the trains light from far away, and then it gets closer and arrives as the narrator realizes they are standing at a train station.

This isn't true, the protagonist was inside a labyrinth filled with tetrahedrons everywhere, she ended up falling in the infinite hierarchy of layers inside the tetrahedron and while she falls, tetrahedrons rises from both lower and higher layers and scatters to a limitlessly distant place, transfiguring her into a singularity due to the infinitesimally small and boundlessly large nature of each layer. This is actually the quantitative difference between each layer of the tetrahedron and not some sort of traversal stuff.

 

[Deagonx]

This isn't true, the protagonist was inside a labyrinth filled with tetrahedrons everywhere, she ended up falling in the infinite hierarchy of layers inside the tetrahedron

None of this contradicts what I said, though. The "dot" was not a tetrahedron nor was it described as infinitesimal to something else.

and while she falls, tetrahedrons rises from both lower and higher layers and scatters to a limitlessly distant place, transfiguring her into a singularity due to the infinitesimally small and boundlessly large nature of each layer.

You need to be more clear about what your reasoning is. I already read all of these scans. None of this contradicts what I said.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Agree with the upgrade for reasons I have already spoken on in the other thread.

 

[Jinsye]

I don't particularly care if this upgrade goes through but I'll just say I agree.

I think the whole part regarding the scaffolding falling underneath Kosane and the fact that each tetrahedron she falls into being boundlessly large yet infinitesimally small makes enough sense for an infinitely layered reality.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Okay, someone said i should check this out, well, this looks very proper, glad its not packed up, infinite number of info Like the last thread and just simple summary that anyone can understand, although not Qualitative but Quantitative i still believe this would work, the reasons might be easy
Each layer of tetrahedron, is a higher or have more extra infinity than the last, starting from the 4th dimensional one, although i know literally nothing about this series but, what i know is that, it really is working its way from each layer having infinite number of "X-dimension" since the last is a dot(0-Dimensions), in other words another infinity to the latter, then this makes absolute sense.
Is what i understand

 

[Shadowbeast]

None of this contradicts what I said, though. The "dot" was not a tetrahedron nor was it described as infinitesimal to something else.

Yes but i'm not tackling them, i'm saying that this High 1-B structure have quantitative difference, the tetrahedron is a gateway to a realm called Time Railord which works as a "infinite train" (time looping maching) which streches along infinitely from the infinite past, infinite future and connects to the "infinite routes" (which is a analogy to the infinite layers) of reality. If you still think this doesn't refer to the 3-D slice of the tetrahedron, the novel makes it very clear that the Time Railord can travel between timelines and escape 3-D timelines, making the user look down at them.

So it is quite clear that the infinite layers of the tetahedron are the temporal layers of the novel that are infinite in relation to each other and that extend across all reality, from the infinite past to the infinite future and that are acessed by the Time Railord that allowed the conquest of the entire time.

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

Yes but i'm not tackling them, i'm saying that this High 1-B structure have quantitative difference, the tetrahedron is a gateway to a realm called Time Railord which works as a "infinite train" (time looping maching) which streches along infinitely from the infinite past, infinite future and connects to the "infinite routes" (which is a analogy to the infinite layers) of reality. If you still think this doesn't refer to the 3-D slice of the tetrahedron, the novel makes it very clear that the Time Railord can travel between timelines and escape 3-D timelines, making the user look down at them.

So it is quite clear that the infinite layers of the tetahedron are the temporal layers of the novel that are infinite in relation to each other and that extend across all reality, from the infinite past to the infinite future and that are acessed by the Time Railord that allowed the conquest of the entire time.

I am not a supporter or opponent but what you described seems to me plainly a 4D temporal structure on top of a normal multiverse, instead of a High1-B structure.
A 4D temporal structure would be more than infinite routes above a 2D planetime, per se.

Perhaps how infinite routes are actually different axes of time can be explained in detail. I am certain that would help on getting a firm rating.

 

[Unqver]

I am not a supporter or opponent but what you described seems to me plainly a 4D temporal structure on top of a normal multiverse, instead of a High1-B structure.
A 4D temporal structure would be more than infinite routes above a 2D planetime, per se.

Perhaps how infinite routes are actually different axes of time can be explained in detail. I am certain that would help on getting a firm rating.

Bro, I would like to say that the three dimensions of this book contain an infinite timeline.

 

[Deagonx]

which works as a "infinite train" (time looping maching) which streches along infinitely from the infinite past, infinite future and connects to the "infinite routes" (which is a analogy to the infinite layers) of reality

If your argument is that the layers of reality are "time routes" then I definitely don't think this is High 1-B

 

[Everything12]

I'm going to be blunt, I like to consider myself knowledgeable on higher-dimensions, I like poetic nonsense, I consider myself adequate at comprehending high sci-fi concepts; this is the type of prose that is the bane to me so I will be forming a lot of my opinion off of others evaluation and so it's very subject to change.

Currently, I think what Deagonx is saying makes the most sense to me so for now putting my name along with theirs.

 

[Unqver]

If your argument is that the layers of reality are "time routes" then I definitely don't think this is High 1-B

That's more like the place after the infinite level tetrahedron falls to the bottom.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Honestly I am not seeing the High 1-B, just extrapolated things.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

rather than saying you don't see how and why its not high 1-B, can we like the other mods, pass reasons?, some people opinion is reliant on others, which i think the op have already tackled, also i still feel even if "High 1-B doesn't make sense, even though it does" they can't stay in 2-A, at the very least Low 1-C due ad infinitum, but that's just me, i still support High 1-B

 

[Deagonx]

rather than saying you don't see how and why its not high 1-B, can we like the other mods, pass reasons?

Many people have provided reasons for disagreeing. Many others have simply said they agree or disagree, which is allowed as well. I ask that you do not criticize other members for not providing their full reasoning.

 

[Georredannea15]

rather than saying you don't see how and why its not high 1-B, can we like the other mods, pass reasons?, some people opinion is reliant on others, which i think the op have already tackled, also i still feel even if "High 1-B doesn't make sense, even though it does" they can't stay in 2-A, at the very least Low 1-C due ad infinitum, but that's just me, i still support High 1-B

In fact, what I find most strange here is that the proponents present arguments that are very disconnected from each other.

For example, one side argues for spatial dimensions with infinite hierarchies and the other side argues for temporal dimensions, so can't say anything for sure because the defenders press all the buttons randomly. But anyway...

 

[Shadowbeast]

In fact, what I find most strange here is that the proponents present arguments that are very disconnected from each other.

For example, one side argues for spatial dimensions with infinite hierarchies and the other side argues for temporal dimensions, so can't say anything for sure because the defenders press all the buttons randomly. But anyway...

"4th dimension" which have a infinite hierarchy of temporal layers, bruh... don't try to make the arguments disconnected, they're all connected.

 

[Unqver]

In fact, what I find most strange here is that the proponents present arguments that are very disconnected from each other.

For example, one side argues for spatial dimensions with infinite hierarchies and the other side argues for temporal dimensions, so can't say anything for sure because the defenders press all the buttons randomly. But anyway...

The argument is about the time orbit. I think the time orbit is only the place of the lowest world, while those people think that the time orbit is related to the tetrahedron itself.

 

[Georredannea15]

"4th dimension" which have a infinite hierarchy of temporal layers, bruh...

It's not a 4th dimension, it's a directly 4-dimensional structure.

4th dimension =/= 4 dimensional structure. So yeah, both are different

 

[Unqver]

It's not a 4th dimension, it's a directly 4-dimensional structure.

4th dimension =/= 4 dimensional structure. So yeah, both are different

You still haven't explained why 3D has an infinite timeline.

 

[Georredannea15]

You still haven't explained why 3D has an infinite timeline.

I have no idea what that has to do with it. And I have no idea what it would do, but having a timeline in a 3D thing would make spatiality 2-dimensional i guess.

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

I have no idea what that has to do with it. And I have no idea what it would do, but having a timeline in a 3D thing would make spatiality 2-dimensional i guess.

I think given it's infinite timeline. One can infer it's a 2D planetime on top of a 3D space.

 

[Shadowbeast]

It's not a 4th dimension, it's a directly 4-dimensional structure.

4th dimension =/= 4 dimensional structure. So yeah, both are different

...this doesn't contradict anything? because the author describes this "4-dimensional structure" in his view differently to how a 4-D structure is itself. But whatever, i will wait further staff input.

 

[Unqver]

I have no idea what that has to do with it. And I have no idea what it would do, but having a timeline in a 3D thing would make spatiality 2-dimensional i guess.

However, it is a pity that three-dimensional space-time continuum is also mentioned.I still don't know why you think 3D is just 3D.

 

[Georredannea15]

I think given it's infinite timeline. One can infer it's a 2D planetime on top of a 3D space.

Temporal dimensions or timelines on the wiki are infinite by default anyway. This doesn't actually add extra dimensionality

...this doesn't contradict anything? because the author describes this "4-dimensional structure" in his view differently to how a 4-D structure is itself. But whatever, i will wait further staff input.

I don't think it's contradictory, because even the situation here is a mess.

However, it is a pity that three-dimensional space-time continuum is also mentioned.I still don't know why you think 3D is just 3D.

If instead of using a phrase like "3rd dimension" or "4th dimension", it directly use a phrase like "4-dimensional structure" or "3-dimensional part", this is the case. Anyway, let's wait, shall we?

 

[Unqver]

I think given it's infinite timeline. One can infer it's a 2D planetime on top of a 3D space.

The time axis includes the universe, the universe mentions the space-time continuum, refers to the infinite time axis, the three-dimensional world view constitutes Aristotle's geopolitical wind and fire, infinite past and infinite future, why a certain dimension in the novel can only be calculated according to reality.

 

[Reiner04]

Does the author has even established 2D spacetime continuum. Because just how weird it is, unless specifically mentioned to be 2D we shouldn't assert that. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidences, either way, author not comprehending how dimensionality and spacetime works shouldn't restrict the scaling, we can just go with how big structures are ignoring weirdly asserted dimensionality by author.

 

[Unqver]

The time axis includes the universe, the universe mentions the space-time continuum, refers to the infinite time axis, the three-dimensional world view constitutes Aristotle's geopolitical wind and fire, infinite past and infinite future, why a certain dimension in the novel can only be calculated according to reality.

The description of the novel through the space-time dimens
ion and through the timeline is obviously three-dimensional.
Interestingly, in evolution Girl, another work of string theory mentioned by the author, the structure of eleven dimensions is almost similar to that of the upper and lower layers of a tetrahedron.

 

[Shadowbeast]

Chill guys, no need to turn the thread into a really big debating mess like the older thread again. Just wait further staff inputs and we will see what will we do here.

 

[Deagonx]

@Ultima_Reality