Profile Deletion Requests Thread - 6

[Agnaa]

As the creator of the page, I apologise for the messy nature of it, it's my first page and i could use some practice, techincally it wasn't made in five minutes, i've had the actual calculations and stuff on my pc for about a month, just found out how to make pages today, I do agree that some of the stuff can be argued wether the player themselves are doing it or not but I do believe it deserves to be a page

In the future, don't add statistics based on calculations that haven't been accepted by the calc group.

 

[KieranH10]

Perhaps the page would be better off on fc/oc Vs Battles wiki, I only got the idea of making this page due to Vanoss' Gmod Player being part of his page, I just thought that this isn't a fan or original character like Vanoss' player, so it'd be ok on here.

 

[Agnaa]

The profiles about goat simulator at least seem to imply the existence of a setting. If there isn't any, then it should be deleted.

Well there's a map where you can do things and things happen. Does this make it qualify as fiction?

GMod has some default maps and objects iirc, would these be enough to be considered a setting and thus for GMod to be fiction?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"there is a map where you can do things and things happen"

That's a very specific description there lol

I mean. It depends. If the game takes place in an actual world with people doing things people would and there just so happens to be a goat with supernatural powers, I guess it might be fine.

And no, default things in engines shouldn't have profiles. Hence why we got rid of Roblox profiles.

 

[KieranH10]

As the creator of the page, I apologise for the messy nature of it, it's my first page and i could use some practice, techincally it wasn't made in five minutes, i've had the actual calculations and stuff on my pc for about a month, just found out how to make pages today, I do agree that some of the stuff can be argued wether the player themselves are doing it or not but I do believe it deserves to be a page

In the future, don't add statistics based on calculations that haven't been accepted by the calc group.

Sorry about this, just thought I needed to prove some points or it'd seem like i'm making stuff up.

 

[Elizhaa]

From Steam

ABOUT THIS GAME
Garry's Mod is a physics sandbox. There aren't any predefined aims or goals. We give you the tools and leave you to play.

You spawn objects and weld them together to create your own contraptions - whether that's a car, a rocket, a catapult or something that doesn't have a name yet - that's up to you. You can do it offline, or join the thousands of players who play online each day.

If you're not too great at construction - don't worry! You can place a variety of characters in silly positions. But if you want to do more, we have the means.

 

[Jinsye]

@Nedge

Wot

The Player lost its key because of vagueness on it's character, not because ots a sandbox

 

[Agnaa]

"there is a map where you can do things and things happen"

That's a very specific description there lol

I mean. It depends. If the game takes place in an actual world with people doing things people would and there just so happens to be a goat with supernatural powers, I guess it might be fine.

And no, default things in engines shouldn't have profiles. Hence why we got rid of Roblox profiles.

There are people doing things but I believe there's no dialogue or story presented, just a goat with supernatural powers in a town.

So the difference between something that's allowed (Goat Simulator) and something that's not allowed (Roblox) is the engine being open and moddable? If GMod/Roblox didn't have their engines open would they be allowed on the wiki?

 

[KieranH10]

I also didn't use anything that came from mods. just to be clear, these are the base game stats and max posible stats in-game without mods.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No. The difference is having a setting or not.

Roblox and Gmod literally only exists to be open simulators. There is no setting. There isn't actually a shapeshifting entity that can create objects and people out of nowhere in a barren area. It's just a sandbox. Whereas in the case of Minecraft or GS, there is actually a setting. There is actually a miner fighting monsters. There is actually a goat flailing around in a city (maybe). They're games by themselves.

 

[Agnaa]

Aren't the default maps the setting? You can have multiple settings for a game.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Is this an actual place? Or just another asset for the player to play in? Because I'm pretty sure it's the latter. Even if it's meant to look like a city, for example, doesn't mean it's an actual city built by characters and that all of sudden the Gmod player showed up and started messing around. Physical place in a free sandbox like that =/= setting.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I feel like Roblox shouldn't be in the same box as Gmod in this case, but maybe that's just the vibe I get from it.

 

[KieranH10]

yeah, construct and flatgrass should count towards something right?

 

[Agnaa]

What's the difference between an "actual place" and "just another asset"? Without explicit confirmation or a showing in story we can't tell if something's an actual city built by characters. And unless you're willing to disregard game footage from being canon, Gmod player did show up and start messing around. So why isn't it a setting?

 

[KieranH10]

flatgrass should at least be a setting, it's set in "Flattywood" as the sign states in the distance

 

[Elizhaa]

I think we should have a guideline for making Player's Characters to prevent confusions.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

An actual place is, well, an actual place, We can clearly see that it's more than just an empty landscape for the player to mess around in due to other beings existing in it.

What do you mean by game footage? Even a video showing gameplay wouldn't prove the existence of a setting.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I think we should have a guideline for making Player's Characters to prevent confusions.

I meeeean, this is more a specific rule involving "games" with literally no lore to speak of.

 

[Agnaa]

An actual place is, well, an actual place, We can clearly see that it's more than just an empty landscape for the player to mess around in due to other beings existing in it.

What do you mean by game footage? Even a video showing gameplay wouldn't prove the existence of a setting.

So for a place to be a setting it has to have other beings existing in it?

Do inanimate beings such as trees, grass, and shrubbery count?

Do animate beings that you can't interact with such as birds and insects count?

By game footage I mean gameplay. Sure that doesn't prove the existence of a setting on its own, but since the player appearing and messing around is something that happens in gameplay, it's canon.

 

[EmbalmerMaster9000]

What I'm weary to note is that the Player (Catalog Heaven)'s profile technically follows a player (alongside any other player that joins a server) fighting on a map that cycles to a different map after a period of time with a bunch of different gear. The old Robloxian profile that many of the statistics were based off of (due to also using gear) followed a similar rule but was technically more or less theoretical due to being in a sandbox that could be practically anywhere.

The overarching difference between the two is that Catalog Heaven has a defined setting that the characters fight on, similarly in a fashion to something like Fortnite (Wherein there exists a verse page and several profiles for). So it's within the standards of the Goat Simulator thing, I believe.

The base Gmod player - if we're assuming it's a player on a default map (as per what Agnaa mentioned) - would essentially be the exact same as the old Robloxian profile. The Robloxian can join a place (be present in a setting) and have access to all their Catalog Gear, but it's then practically unknown how they would act in character - contrast this from the Catalog Heaven player, whom of which is intended to fight other players. I believe the Gmod player would have the same exact issue as per lacking an "in character" thing as the Robloxian, which is a trait that a lot of "sandbox game with no preset goal"-type characters tend to have in the end.

My verdict; if we don't allow the creation of the profile, then I can completely understand the reasons why. My only problem is that Gmod in itself is incredibly popular (It's the 8th bestselling PC-game of all time according to wikipedia and it amasses a large playercount according to this chart), but whether or not a large quantity of those are individuals playing sandbox is unknown.

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[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Popularity shouldn't excuse anything. If we won't allow it for an obscure verse we shouldn't allow it for an extremely popular verse. Otherwise we'd have Creative Mode Minecraft.

 

[Agnaa]

The Roblox character profile was removed for not having defined in-character behaviour? There had to be more to it, right?

I'm not familiar with that case since I wasn't there for the thread where it was decided to delete the page (since I have no interest in Roblox).

 

[KieranH10]

what Zany said is what I was thinking, and according to the linked wikipedia list it even beats half life in popularity, the game it was supposed to be a mod for, another thing i've just noticed, what differs gmod's player from the player from the sims, that character seems even more abstract than gmod, but we're supposed to assume it just appeared and started making stuff, but we can't assume this for the gmod player?

 

[EmbalmerMaster9000]

The Roblox character profile was removed for not having defined in-character behaviour? There had to be more to it, right?

I'm not familiar with that case since I wasn't there for the thread where it was decided to delete the page (since I have no interest in Roblox).

Essentially for the reasons Saikou provided; there wasn't exactly a predefined goal or setting the Robloxian profile was based in. The Catalog Heaven player takes place in a rotation of maps wherein they're intended to fight and thus therein lies an existence of a setting. The Gmod player goes under a very similar case as with the Robloxian profile where it was simply a character in a miscellaneous setting (could be a preset map or whatnot; think of it on the lines of the Robloxian being a random place like a pre-built town) with no goal.

Likewise, if we're not keeping it, then I can oblige to such. I don't really like the rule either, but it definitely does keep a lot of assumptionwork out of the profile when it comes to using the "sandbox" character type in debating (E.G, assuming how they would work in character and whatnot). But we shouldn't exactly prevent people from making a content revision thread to suggest changes to this rule either, but the arguments of which suggesting otherwise aren't provided thus far, so we have yet to see any tweaks to it.

 

[Agnaa]

Well Saikou hasn't adequately defined what a "setting" is yet.

 

[KieranH10]

I don't see why FlatGrass isn't a good enough setting, it's been named, the player is either in or near a place called Flattywood.

 

[Torlikoff]

There's no story though. There's nothing established, no purpose, it's just a pure sandbox with the only rules being that of the engine.

 

[Agnaa]

There's no story though. There's nothing established, no purpose, it's just a pure sandbox with the only rules being that of the engine.

So you want to remove every character from a game that has no story?

 

[Chartate101]

I don't get what the problem with sandbox characters is anyway. But I think we should keep gmod (obviously not the profile in its current state, but someone could make a new one)

 

[Torlikoff]

No. What I'm saying is that GMod doesn't really have enough to even build a profile off of. There's almost nothing to it that isn't player made.

 

[Agnaa]

It seems like it does have enough to build a profile off of. Assuming even a tenth of what's on the current profile is legitimate.

 

[Torlikoff]

A lot of the stuff on the profile seems to be based off of things you can do in the source engine, not sure where any of the statistics come from though.

 

[Agnaa]

Yes but isn't that how player profiles are usually done? I'm not familiar with the verse but The Player (The Sims) seems to be done like that.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think we should have a guideline for making Player's Characters to prevent confusions.

Well, there is a guidline.

Secondly, Author Avatars are not inherently bad, as some fictions use them in meaningful and relevant manners. There are several games in which the player is a part of the story proper, as well as numerous stories in which the author is made present, either through an avatar or fictionalized portrayal. We have to see if the author avatar is relevant, or if it is just a wink towards the audience.
	~ Reality - Fiction Interaction​

 

[Agnaa]

This isn't about Author Avatars, it's about Player Avatars. They're not a representation of the author.

 

[Elizhaa]

This rule is the only rule that discusses the Player.

 

[Agnaa]

Ahh right I missed that part.

The Gmod profile probably shouldn't exist as it does then.

 

[Starter_Pack]

Yeah, I stayed back from all the heavy discussion, but I don't think the GMod Player should get a profile anymore.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Saikou. A character needs an actual defined setting, and preferably a narrative in order to qualify as even being a character.

In addition, this page is poorly made/unreliable, so I will delete it.