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Jaften

Joke Battles
Thread Moderator
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70
But even the BR version of Fortnite has some lore and canon across the different seasons.
 
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Devil Daggers seems fine. A lack of written story doesn't mean that the fictional setting doesn't have any inherent lore just from elements existing in that setting. The setting presented is that a person of mysterious origin who can upgrade themselves with dark magic is locked into infinite and endless combat with an army of demonic horrors and beasts. Don't need deep lore to consider that a story, even if it's barebones.
 
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Well, that guideline does say that the minimum requirement is:

At the very least, the setting should be entirely fictional in nature, with no true bearing over the real world.
Which the profile meets. But maybe you're right about it needing to be deleted.

I do remember there being some other profiles for games with no story, just combat with enough visual feats to get a tier which weren't controversial at the time, but I don't remember its name to point it out to y'all. (EDIT: Nvm, I was thinking of Devil Daggers, whoops.)

From what I remember that rule was more aimed at works which are incoherent animated shorts with no ongoing plot, like asdfmovie, rather than simply video games which don't have lore written. It kinda sucks that Hong Kong 97, under this idea, has more legitimacy than some games simply because it has a tiny story cinematic at the start.
 

Jaften

Joke Battles
Thread Moderator
505
70
We can move Devil Daggers to a blog so it's at least still present on the site, but I don't think it should have an official profile under our rules.
 

Andytrenom

VS Battles
Sysop
Human Resources
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Devil Daggers was literally brought up when creating that rule. This rule is for things like Please Don't Touch Anything, where there is story, but there is a coherent world with rules and feats
 

Andytrenom

VS Battles
Sysop
Human Resources
10,020
5,266
If "a lack of story" is the only reason for deletion, Devil Daggers should be fine to stay
 

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
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I agree with Andy. If it is a popular notable game, the page can probably stay. The rules are mostly there to prevent us from accepting trash, not valid games without a plot, as long as they can be properly evaluated.
 

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
99,789
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It can probably stay as long as it is a regular popular game without a storyline.
 
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I'm not even sure it can be considered a game, really. It's basically a debug mode for Roblox accessories.
 

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
99,789
20,936
Aha. That seems much more uncertain then. Perhaps we should delete it after all?
 

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
99,789
20,936
Are there other pages related to this one that also need to be deleted?
 
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There's no other characters from it, if that's what you mean. There's a few other profiles that had versus matches with it, which will need to be removed from their respective Others section, but none of them are locked.
 

Abstractions

VS Battles
Content Moderator
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I don't believe popularity has bearing on whether a profile should be deleted, otherwise there would be a ton more pages marked for deletion.
 
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It does, actually. If someone here writes an OC that barely anyone on the internet knows about, it shouldn't get a profile. But if one of the world's best-selling novelists had made some edits here before, their works would still get profiles.
 

Abstractions

VS Battles
Content Moderator
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296
Agnaa said:
It does, actually. If someone here writes an OC that barely anyone on the internet knows about, it shouldn't get a profile. But if one of the world's best-selling novelists had made some edits here before, their works would still get profiles.
If the work is an officially published one then it would be perfectly fine to have either way unless it has other reasoning to not be added like Suggs. Both are also technically OCs, just one has more following.
 
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We allow many works that aren't officially published, such as many indie games, webcomics, webnovels, and internet series. We allow these based on their popularity.
 
But you also don't include canonical creepypasta characters anyway, even though they are quite popular online

Anyway this is getting a bit derailed, what is the verdict?
 

Abstractions

VS Battles
Content Moderator
1,224
296
Agnaa said:
We allow many works that aren't officially published, such as many indie games, webcomics, webnovels, and internet series. We allow these based on their popularity.
Sure, but popularity does not always dictate what we allow, that's why profiles subject for deletion are more often than not low quality as opposed to obscure.

I don't want to clog the thread with this, so if you want to discuss it more I can send you a message on your wall.
 
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For sure, popularity does not always dictate what we delete, but you earlier said "I don't believe popularity has bearing on whether a profile should be deleted" which I interpreted as you saying that popularity is never a factor. If you agree that it sometimes is, then this discussion does not need to go further.
 
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I'm not sure.

It's basically a small PvP fighting game within Roblox, where both players have access to all "catalog items". Which seems to be any unlockable items within Roblox.

I think it's more than a debug mode, it's intended and built for fighting instead of just being a blank sandbox engine like GMod, but part of it is also letting people play around with gear that they haven't unlocked yet.

It might be fine since we're not deleting verses like Devil Daggers, but my opinion here shouldn't be the definitive closing argument.
 

Saikou_The_Lewd_King

The King of all Things Lewd
VS Battles
Sysop
14,920
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I really don't think that throwing the player in a sandbox with no fictional setting to speak of and saying them through a game description "go fight" is enough to make for a fictional setting to speak of.
 
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Apparently it has some gear banned for balance reasons, and it has maps that rotate occasionally.

Like I said, it looks like a sandbox-esque thing built for fighting, rather than a sandbox that people happen to use for fighting.

And like other people mentioned, we have profiles for Devil Daggers, PUBG's player character, and many Game & Watch characters, all of which don't have a story. The rule mentioned was more designed for verses like asdf movie, a series of short animated skits with no coherent narrative.
 
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HeadlessKramerGeoff777 said:
Agnaa said:
And like other people mentioned, we have profiles for Devil Daggers, PUBG's player character, and many Game & Watch characters, all of which don't have a story. The rule mentioned was more designed for verses like asdf movie, a series of short animated skits with no coherent narrative.
Feels like this is inconstant then, as in we are bending the rules for certain verses but not others
Not really, a well designed verse with little to no story shouldn't be comparable to a setting with an inconsistent or incoherent plot that can't reliably be ranked and scaled.
 
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I mean, games have a gameplay and a story. Books, comics, animations, movies, TV shows, anime, audio dramas, etc. all just have the story.

I think there's some sense behind not requiring games to have a story, as long as they have one consistent set of gameplay that can be attributed to the work, as long as that's enough to make a noteworthy profile.
 

Saikou_The_Lewd_King

The King of all Things Lewd
VS Battles
Sysop
14,920
5,101
Those verses have settings though.

I can't speak for PUBG or Devil Daggers, but for example Game & Watch has a clear setting (and arguably a story).You're a fireman helping people from a fire, you're a guy defending his garden from holes, you're a fucking guy keeping his clothes from getting wet.

Even if games have no actual cutscene or "story" to speak of they still have a setting. You know that this is not just meaningless gameplay, you are a being in a setting doing things.

Stuff like Universe Sandbox, RPG Maker or base Roblox might have things happenings, none of what you do as a player is meant to represent any "in-universe" action, because "in-universe" does not exist.
 
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Are those things about G&W ever stated, or are they just told in the visuals?

I'm not familiar with Universe Sandbox. RPG Maker doesn't have a base game. This isn't quite base Roblox, it's a game inside Roblox made by a fan that uses the base assets. And like I mentioned, they do have rotating maps.
 

Jaften

Joke Battles
Thread Moderator
505
70
Agnaa said:
I'm not familiar with Universe Sandbox.
Universe Sandbox is what it sounds like. "Here's a simulation of the 'universe', do what you want."

It's mostly for messing with orbital mechanics at star system level to be honest.
 
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Ahh. Well, if we really want to avoid having sandbox verses and it's hard to draw the line, then I don't oppose deleting the Catalog Heaven player on those grounds.
 

Saikou_The_Lewd_King

The King of all Things Lewd
VS Battles
Sysop
14,920
5,101
"Are those things about G&W ever stated, or are they just told in the visuals?"

It is explicitly told, but I really don't think it's needed. A game with no dialogue or narration or whatever can still be considered if it's obvious from the visual that something in-universe exists.

Which is not the case for, say, Catalog Heaven.
 
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I can't even imagine how to draw the line in that way for profiles like Catalog Heaven, Devil Daggers, PUBG, and G&W.

I don't know how the visuals of two cartoon characters hitting each other with signs is more indicative of a story than two blocky roblox characters fighting with intricate weapons/gear on a rotating set of maps.
 
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Agnaa said:
I can't even imagine how to draw the line in that way for profiles like Catalog Heaven, Devil Daggers, PUBG, and G&W.
I don't know how the visuals of two cartoon characters hitting each other with signs is more indicative of a story than two blocky roblox characters fighting with intricate weapons/gear on a rotating set of maps.
That's easy though. If the gameplay is in universe then it should count as visual storytelling, otherwise it doesn't make the cut.

Devil Daggers and G&W have characters that face conflicts and the gameplay is their solutions to those conflicts.

For Catalog Heaven you have to ask if the gameplay is purely mechanical, or if they are characters actually doing things in a setting.
 
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Are the rotating maps an actual set of changing arenas in universe, or is it just game mechanics?

Are the Robloxians actual characters in this game mode, or are they purely a vessel for fighting each other?
 
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I guess so, but that doesn't apply to all G&W situations, like the cartoon characters with signs.
 

Zanybrainy2000

VS Battles
Retired
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198
The Robloxians are basically just a vessel for fighting each other, there's no story. The map changes are more or less mechanical. Catalog heaven itself is just a vessel for using the catalog weapons and nothing else.
 
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Alright, I'm going to maybe bring up an example of what something like Catalog Heaven would look like if it was acceptable on the wiki: Quake III.

Quake III, at its core, is an excuse to have a bunch of wacky characters blast the hell out of each other with rocket launchers, plasma rifles, and railguns. It does have a story, though: The Vadrigar, an immortal alien race that has conquered death itself, takes pleasure in snatching the greatest fighters from across the universe and making them fight in their Arena Eternal.

The maps are all part of the Arena Eternal, the characters have backstory, there is a clear plot to Quake III. Catalog Heaven, on the other hand, has none of that. Catalog Heaven has a bunch of blank slate characters fight in some maps for no reason whatsoever. There's no plot, no setting, no character motivations. Hell, I'm pretty sure GMod Prop Hunt has more of a plot to it.

You all already know that I think it should go, though.
 

Wokistan

Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Sysop
Calculation Group
Human Resources
16,490
6,644
Devil Daggers would still have a setting in the sense that G&W does, if that's the metric we're using. You're some guy up against ever increasing hordes of creatures that are trying to kill you that you fight back against by shooting them down with your daggers. There's actually progression to it too, all the enemy spawns are scripted at specific amounts of elapsed time and eventually a boss shows up.

Catalog heaven is just PvP, if I'm not mistaken.
 
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Reasons for deleting Yang Guo ? We already had calcs in our forums. Is it deleted because it is an unpopular character?

All the feats I gave were backed up, for the 1 or 2 less significant feats that were still left blank, I was halfway updating them.

And you just deleted the whole thing despite me spending hours to make it....

Seriously, I have seen character stats with 0 evidence on this page before, and they were not taken down so mercilessly!
 
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Name those character that have absolutely no evidence, we'll be happy to nuke them. And the profile was generally poorly made, that's why it was nuked.

Make a blog and go over it, maybe with an experienced member, before posting it.
 
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Planck69 said:
Name those character that have absolutely no evidence, we'll be happy to nuke them. And the profile was generally poorly made, that's why it was nuked.
Make a blog and go over it, maybe with an experienced member, before posting it.
Give me reasons why it was "poorly" made.
 
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Ebitan34 said:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Jire
See those Universal + striking and durability with 0 evidence?

Yep the page is not deleted because fans would get mad, right?
Are you serious? Everything there is via scaling above other Low 2-Cs, it's just so common knowledge that it goes without saying on his profile. Ki grants both greater power and equivalent durability, not to mention how they can be used to strengthen physical blows. Jiren has greater Ki than Infinite Zamasu, who's Low 2-C and as such his other statistics scale.

Try again.
 
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It was NOT added to the profile.

Define "common knowledge", bud.

When someone who has zero knowledge of DBS, logs in to search about Jiren, imagine them scratching their head when they see Universal + in Striking and Durability without any EXPLANATIONS at all.

Yes he has backed up Universal + AP, but his durability and striking were not backed up.

My page has the feats to back them up, yet it was deleted, the only reason I am seeing now because this character is not "common knowledge".
 
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I said, give me reasons, why, it was "poorly" made.

Awesome, ALL of Yang Guo's AP were backed up as well, but he still got deleted, reasons?
 
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Going through all of them would take a while. The most egregious ones are the nonsensical separation for Durability and AP, and the keys in general that don't reflect the formatting of the profile, the weird formatting for the P&A section, and the inaccurate bolding and use of terms that we don't use that way on profiles (such as "Very casually Wall Level in Dura).

There's many others but that's a start.
 
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Ebitan34 said:
His striking strength comes from his attack potency because he attacks with his fists.

His durability scales because of ki and attacks he can tank.

If someone has zero knowledge of DBS, then why are they searching about a specific character from it by name. If they are familiar with the wiki they will understand the rating.

Yours was deleted because it was likely poorly formatted and difficult to read. If you truly have evidence and feats to back up its ratings, then all you have to do is reupload it with better formatting and readability.
 
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Agnaa said:
Going through all of them would take a while. The most egregious ones are the nonsensical separation for Durability and AP, and the keys in general that don't reflect the formatting of the profile, the weird formatting for the P&A section, and the inaccurate bolding and use of terms that we don't use that way on profiles (such as "Very casually Wall Level in Dura).
There's many others but that's a start.
Great, I would appreciate it, if you are willing to help me go through it, and give all the reasons so I can work through them to make sure it does not get deleted again.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Ebitan34/Sandbox

Here's the same prototype for reference.
 
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That sentence does not sound valid at all. What if people are having a , let's say Superman vs Jiren thread, and the Superman supporter, being a comic fan who has zero DBS knowledge, decides to look up Vs Battles wiki about Jiren? Are you telling me that he should go and read a series he has 0 interest in instead of doing a quick search on Vs Battles wiki? This does not make sense.

I know he can tank Universal+ attacks because I watch DBS, and there are tons of feats supporting it as well. Why then, were none of those "calcs" or feats included in his durability section?
 
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Many profiles, particularly for characters who fight physically, don't repeat their AP feats in their striking strength or durability section since they automatically scale. It isn't a formatting error.

Now please stop this pointless discussion.
 
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In your scenario, that person would be familiar with the wiki, and would understand why his page is written that way.

Agnaa already told you that it's because the reasons are in his attack potency section.

I'm willing to help you with your page, so we can talk about it in your message wall.
 
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Goji said the following:

About this, shouldn't they be separated due to being completely different series by different people and different characters? The remake of the original whack your boss even jokes about his idea being stolen.
Which makes it sound like, despite the similarity between the pages, they're different series by different people.

What's up with this? It makes both pages sound sketchy to me.
 
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It was put into multiple pages cause it's issue on the series having the same name. They all being Whack The series of games. None of the pages make improper scaling to each other as only one of them ever had reason to scale. (Patrick, Lisa, The Neighborhood, Whiskers, Whiskey, and The Serial Killer). The rest are just their own pages from their own games, just sharing the Whack The name of it.
 
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