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Professor Paradox Vs Heaven Ascension DIO

Greenshifter said:
Ok, so since Paradox has prep he can use his time travel to research Dio. As such he'll be aware of Dio being able to soulhax or BFR him while he's in the past, so he builds something that makes him undetectable by Dio's abilities and immediately goes there the moment the fight starts with a thought. This means that if he is immune to time stop, that he has a more than 50% chance to win the fight. If he is not immune to time stop then it's incon, either Paradox time travels before Dio does anything thought-based or he doesn't, Dio dies regardless due to traps. I already asked Brawl to look into his immunity btw.

Edit: Actually Paradox should still win without time stop immunity since there's a chance Dio BFR's Paradox but doesn't kill him, which means Dio dies by traps but Paradox is still alive so he wins.
Click to expand...
No FRA? Cough
 
Paradox can instantly teleport away to an undetectable location and let his traps do the work. If Dio then teleports away they’re basically both BFR’d. I doubt Dio will see the attacks coming and teleport away in time though. So basically Dio starts with something thought-based and it kills 95% of the time. Paradox will be able to dodge in 50% of the cases, meaning there is a 47.5% chance that Paradox dies in this match. Dio’s odds of dying or getting BFR’d (Null Void BFR is too much for even Dio to escape) by traps are much higher however and thus Paradox wins. (At least if my definition of when something is incon is correct, quite a lot of variables to consider)

Edit: the odds of Dio successfully leaving the battlefield is probably quite a bit higher than 2.5% so I guess it is incon without time stop resist.
 
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Why wouldn't he be able to leave the void, exactly? He has 2-A BFR, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to leave.
 
Gwen can access the Null Void so she has the necessary range. She just can’t get back out since apparently that’s more difficult. If Dio’s lucky he can find a way out but I wouldn’t count on it, especially not within a week.
 
I assume her BFR is 2-B? If so, I'm still not sure how to feel, since I feel like its kinda iffy to say it can nullify a bfr that is 2-A, or basically infinite in comparison to 2-B.

Either way, Time stop is still important here. Also, we should probably contact Chariot.
 
I sorta get your point but keep in mind that the problem isn't range since Gwen has the range to get inside the Null Void so she also has the range to get back out. She and other people with sufficient range just can't get out without tech since there's apparently something else stopping them from getting out. You could argue teleportation doesn't work like portals so it wouldn't a problem but I'm iffy on that since Dr. Animo (an extraordinary genius) couldn't get out and thought that the best option was to make an interdimensional drill, while a simple teleporter should be less complicated to make.
 
Ok, he has "immunity" to time hax due of lacking the concept of time, but does that cover even a Time Stop who can stop Infinite Speed peeps (aka ppl with his own speed, so speed equalization isn't an issue), and ppl who resist Time Stop?

I remind that Infinite Speed is this:

For more information, Infinite speed characters are so fast, they move faster than time can flow at any period. They perceive every finite speed character as completely frozen and it takes 0 time to react to any finite speed object or travel finite speed distance. They can also perform and infinite number of actions or travel infinite distance within a finite amount of time. An infinite speed character's perception of time only flows when they allow it to flow.

Aka the flow of time can't slow them, however Dio can stop people who can move without the time due of their speed not being bound form it, a situation that is kinda better than the prof.

TLDR: Paradox's immunity is NLF here and DIO still stops.
 
Hold up this above baseline time stop comes from infinite speed? I mean even Yuri is against infinite speed giving you the ability to move in a time stop in the first place, I already discussed this with Chariot before...

If we still treat infinite speed as giving time stop resistence then maybe you can argue it would also work on timeless beings based on that but I'm not quite sure since infinite speed * zero time = unquantifiable distance (could be 0, finite or infinite). Main takeaway being that you can still get affected by a time stop as an infinite speed being depending on how it works while Paradox would be straight up unaffected.
 
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According to Chariot, Dio could simply just instantly bring back someone into his dimension with a thought. Also this:

"this may be worth noting, but every single character in EOH has some degree of being completely uneffected by changes to the past or their past self.

Old Joseph and friends went back into the time of Part 2 and changed events, and Old joseph was completely uneffected, even though it was made explicitly clear that he was quite literally interacting with himself by Funny (it's why the D4C paradox didn't effect him, it wasn't two different joseph's, it was the same Joseph at different points in time, as said by Funny himself).

Plus a bunch of other examples of things being tweaked if even slightly but characters from the future being completely uneffected, at one point there was even Two Kira's, Kosaku and pre Kosaku, and the Kosaku version was completely uneffected even though his past self is literally hanging out with him, in a completely dofferent dimension across space time decades in the future comparatively to their original universe and has changed his future to such an extent that the whole encounter that made Kira become Kosaku was straight up no longer on the table or was gonna happen, and Kosaku Kira was, of course, completely fine. (He even shows up later with his past self in Part 6's prison to fight the good dudes, as in, past Kira straight up ceased to exist in Part 4's time and went decades into the future, but Kosaku Kira was still uneffected even though th events that made him no longer happened).

This applies to every single character in the game, time paradox shit simply isn't really a thing EOH gave a **** about so everyone and everything simply isnt effected by changes to the past or their past selves."

This should be more than enough to actually give acausality, but not sure why they don't have it. Not sure if it is useable here if we are going profile only though.
 
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Rikimarox2 said:
According to Chariot, Dio could simply just instantly bring back someone into his dimension with a thought. Also this:
Click to expand...
Accounted for this in my analysis.

If it’s like Dragon Ball then that’s too bad because SBA makes them not acausal. If it’s an actual resistance then it should be on the page. Also Paradox’s equipment killing Dio in the past could be a bonus but not necessary.

@manu_zarri I accounted for all of Dio’s thought-based wincons in my analysis. I said that Paradox dies in 45% of the cases did I not? This percentage will obviously be much less when Paradox is unaffected by Dio’s go-to move (time stop) but in each case it isn’t gonna go above 50%.

Jotaro is a better example then but irrelevant for someone who exists outside of time.
 
Greenshifter said:
I accounted for all of Dio’s thought-based wincons in my analysis. I said that Paradox dies in 45% of the cases did I not? This percentage will obviously be much less when Paradox is unaffected by Dio’s go-to move (time stop) but in each case it isn’t gonna go above 50%.

Jotaro is a better example then but irrelevant for someone who exists outside of time.
Click to expand...
The win-cons for Dio are:
Soul Hax with thought
BFR and Soul Hax
Time Stop (Without considering immunity)
Time Travel (?)

Paradox Win-Cons (at least as i remember)
Go in past and kill
weapons (?)

4 : 6 = 0.66/0.67 x 100 = 66,66-%/67%
2 : 6 = 0.33/0.34 x 100 = 33,33-%/34%
 
I mean, from what I gathered, most of his wincons were either traps, or going to the past, or the bfr null shit.

For the traps, he can TS and be done with. Either teleport himself out, or do whatever.

For the past, I'm not sure. This is what happened in EoH, according to Chariot

"Also given what I know of HA Dio's opponent,so this may be worth noting, but every single character in EOH has some degree of being completely uneffected by changes to the past or their past self.

Old Joseph and friends went back into the time of Part 2 and changed events, and Old joseph was completely uneffected, even though it was made explicitly clear that he was quite literally interacting with himself by Funny (it's why the D4C paradox didn't effect him, it wasn't two different joseph's, it was the same Joseph at different points in time, as said by Funny himself).

Plus a bunch of other examples of things being tweaked if even slightly but characters from the future being completely uneffected, at one point there was even Two Kira's, Kosaku and pre Kosaku, and the Kosaku version was completely uneffected even though his past self is literally hanging out with him, in a completely dofferent dimension across space time decades in the future comparatively to their original universe and has changed his future to such an extent that the whole encounter that made Kira become Kosaku was straight up no longer on the table or was gonna happen, and Kosaku Kira was, of course, completely fine. (He even shows up later with his past self in Part 6's prison to fight the good dudes, as in, past Kira straight up ceased to exist in Part 4's time and went decades into the future, but Kosaku Kira was still uneffected even though th events that made him no longer happened).

This applies to every single character in the game, time paradox shit simply isn't really a thing EOH gave a **** about so everyone and everything simply isnt effected by changes to the past or their past selves."

I think this is enough for acausality, not sure if we can count it in since it isn't on the profile though.

For the void part, I'm still iffy on it since it only nullified a 2-B BFR range, not 2-A. Not to mention, even if the void works, if the time stop works, he would still be able to win considering that he can TS and soul hax him. Even if he went to that void, Paradox will still be dead.
 
manu_zarri said:
The win-cons for Dio are:
Soul Hax with thought
BFR and Soul Hax
Time Stop (Without considering immunity)
Time Travel (?)

Paradox Win-Cons (at least as i remember)
Go in past and kill
weapons (?)

4 : 6 = 0.66/0.67 x 100 = 66,66-%/67%
2 : 6 = 0.33/0.34 x 100 = 33,33-%/34%
Click to expand...
Time travel isn’t a wincon for Dio. You’re kinda assuming Paradox will not go to the past in every scenario despite him having the prep time necessary to know his best course or action. Automated weapons and traps are Paradox’s best course of action regardless of them being in the past or not. Paradox can also literally make his weapons fire through space, as in a door that leads to somewhere else in space every time you enter it or backtrack your steps.

By SBA Ben 10’s main timeline will be fused with whatever timeline Dio is from to make time travel killing possible.

Dio can time stop, assume he dodged all the traps in the area, only for a laser from a weapon that gets fired on the other side of the galaxy to suddenly appear behind him and catch him completely off-guard, either BFR’ing or killing Dio past his regen in the process. With traps I don’t mean incap stuff btw, I mean instant win stuff. I already brought up universal bombs but Paradox can get access to multiversal bombs if he wants to. Which makes Dio’s acausality quite useless if he’s killed in literally every moment of time.

Dimensional travel with a portal or teleportation in a 2-A multiverse is not inherently better than a portal or teleportation in a 2-B multiverse. It only has more range, not more potency. Which in this case potency is important since the character in question I brought up has the necessary range.

I also mentioned how Paradox can just build something to cloak himself from Dio and will go there the instant the battle start. So either Dio kills Paradox first thing or he’s never getting the chance again.
 
Actually...

Now that I think about it, by SBA, they are fighting in central park, no? Assuming Paradox has made all the traps and shit, couldn't Dio just... teleport both Paradox and himself into his dimension, especially since he almost always fight in his dimension?
 
Sure, if he does it first thought without any hesitation. If he then legit has acausality then it might be incon if he does it more than 50% of the time. However that sounds like quite an assumption for a guy who uses time stop for efficiency and would horribly backfire in any match where he runs into someone else with thought-based insta-win powers.
 
I did specifically say “for efficiency” did I not? Bloodlusted makes character use their most efficient move, teleporting someone else together with yourself to your own dimension giving them time to do something else doesn’t seem like an as efficient move as time stop or soul hax would be (assuming soul hax is thought-based).
 
Ah, if that's the case, then my bad. Perhaps my memory is foggy.

Anyways, since Dio doesn't have acausality yet, and paradox still has his immunity shit, I believe it's safe to say that he wins this. And I don't recall his soul hax being thought-based.

Voting Paradox.
 
Dio's only wincon is Soulhax or BFR, both of which he wouldn't be able to activate without getting close to Paradox.

And considering he cannot TS, it means he is never getting close to Paradox considering the prep shit.
 
Dio ain't BFR anyway as he never used it in a offensive way.

Aka is a stomp, and we should change to Post-Absorption HA DIO.
 
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