Professor Paradox Vs Heaven Ascension DIO

[manu_zarri]

Irrelevant when in Pre Absorbtion he had to touch to power null

we are talking about post...

 

[StrymULTRA]

we are talking about post...

OP still is pre lol

 

[manu_zarri]

OP still is pre lol

No dude, you taked "just change to post" and i said "it would be a stomp" and you said "Both thought based" and I said "HA Dio will just powernull everything" and you bypassed the context.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No dude, you taked "just change to post" and i said "it would be a stomp" and you said "Both thought based" and I said "HA Dio will just powernull everything" and you bypassed the context.

mb

 

[manu_zarri]

mb

?

 

[Chariot190]

I didn't read the thread, saying that right now and I don't know what the current point of contention is but...

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but Dio can somehow pinpoint the location of a target, and teleport or target them instantly seemingly regardless of what universe or time they're in.
For example.
He managed to casually pinpoint Funny despite Funny having traveled through "countless" universes trying to get away from Dio (to the point he lost track of how any he's went through), and the moment he stopped, as in, for just a few seconds, Dio teleported in, said he could arrive ay whatever reality he wishes at a whim, then killed Funny. So i don't really think his opponent teleporting away or to another time is much of a issue, Dio has shown some scarily accurate precision in knowing when and where someone or something is even if he shouldn't logically be aware of the exact location. (that, or he just goes "lol i wanna teleport to wherever ____ is" and his power just does that for him).

Soulhax is a kill thing, (unless Paradox can survive without his soul and having his soul consumed?), but Pre key has no way to just rip a soul out at a thought.

BFR is possible, and he can use it to send anyone anywhere at any point in time and to any universe in existence, but, prekey, it's done via rifts and the like. It's not a poof and you're gone thing. Should mention, if this wasn't obvious, but BFR in both keys can effect objects and the like too, it isn't limited to just others, post it can effect numerous targets at once.

While not BFR, Dio CAN withdraw anything into his dimension at range and regardless of time or universe prekey, so it makes it hard for others to escape from him given if he wants them near by he can just teleport them into his dimension within a few feet of him. But he's only shown to be able to teleport others into his dimension, not anywhere else in this type of situation.

While also not BFR, Dio can send shadows to attack people through space and time and they slowly heatseek them to mindcontrol and corrupt them on contact. He's shown to be able to toss a handful at any given time.

Changes to Dio's past or whatever probably shouldn't effect him, literally nothing in the game effects any character, put simply, I think the concept of a time paradox quite literally doesn't even exist in that canon because they demonstrably alter the past and even their past directly and nobody gives a ****, like Kosaku Kira shouldn't exist due to the alterations to his past but he's around and kicking.

Unsure if this helps at all either but, Dio can summon, he has access to uh,

Will
Dio Part 1
Stroheim
Lisa Lisa (Though only at one part in the story).
Stroheim
Kakyoin
Iggy
N'Doul
Mariah
Enya
Vanilla
D'Arby.
Kira
Kira again but with BTD
Akira
Diavolo
Fugo
Narancia
Bruno
Weather
Pucci with C-Moon/MIH
Gyro
Funny (Reluctantly).
Diego The World
Joushu.
Maybe more, I'm going on memory.

Though, I only really see Pucci getting called in in character. But he can summon these to anywhere and anytime.

Dio also has anywhere from one piece of the corpse to a handful pre-key (Depends when and at what point in the story, but he always has at least one).
The corpse can protect him from a wide variety of effects passively, though from what I know nothing his opponent does is covered by that.

Dio pre-key does have a few thoughtbased things, but his main gimmick pre isn't thought based.
Dio is protected by an aura, though it can be broken by just hitting him hard enough, not really that great, though it can take a free hit (Think Mimikyu).

 

[Greenshifter]

them 3 days of prep

Paradox can also stop time during prep to basically give himself as much “time” as he wants.

 

[manu_zarri]

Paradox can also stop time during prep to basically give himself as much “time” as he wants.

This should be allowed? it's cheating

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but Dio can somehow pinpoint the location of a target, and teleport or target them instantly seemingly regardless of what universe or time they're in.
For example.

I accounted for this and since Paradox has prep he would make a cloaking shield and teleport to it the moment the battle starts to prevent Dio from finding him.

that, or he just goes "lol i wanna teleport to wherever ____ is" and his power just does that for him

... Well if it works like that then we may have a problem, I would like you to point out that we don’t assume mr. my thoughts become reality, Alien X himself, to be able to just lol teleport to the right location though.

As for the acausality thing, I would prefer if his page said that. Because if it’s a verse mechanic then SBA overwrites that unless OP overwrites SBA.

Paradox blows all of Dio’s summons into oblivion with a universal or multiversal (EE’ing) bomb.

Aura might be useful.

 

[Greenshifter]

This should be allowed? it's cheating

It’s an ability of a character why is it cheating? Paradox using time travel during prep is also allowed.

 

[Greenshifter]

Imagine ignoring weeks of discussion.

That was actually a pretty accurate analysis lol. The main thing that’s limiting Paradox here is that by SBA I don’t think he’s allowed to place a bomb under Dio’s feet.

 

[manu_zarri]

It’s an ability of a character why is it cheating? Paradox using time travel during prep is also allowed.

No, it's just broke the rules

That was actually a pretty accurate analysis lol.

Nah

I accounted for this and since Paradox has prep he would make a cloaking shield and teleport to it the moment the battle starts to prevent Dio from finding him.

Not countering thought BFR + Soul Hax that i showed before

 

[Chariot190]

I accounted for this and since Paradox has prep he would make a cloaking shield and teleport to it the moment the battle starts to prevent Dio from finding him.

I really don't think that has anything to do with how Dio finds who he's looking for. As said, it's probably just a "i want to be where this person is" and then it happens via rifts or RO. Makes a bit of sense thinking on it, at least in regards to the rifts, it's explained at one point that Rifts will take the person to where they need to be automatically, multiple people using the same rift would even get sent to different universes and time if it's optimal or they're needed there instead of elsewhere.

mr. my thoughts become reality, Alien X himself, to be able to just lol teleport to the right location though.

Good for him I guess? I'm saying this because Dio has some examples of something along these lines actually occurring.
It's either that or Dio has a cosmic awareness on a 2-A scale so either way. I'm kinda more inclined to lean toward his teleport just takes him to the person he wants to see whether or not he knows where they actually are, that unironically makes more sense and is more consistent with what we know then Dio knowing everything that's happening everywhere, because he clearly doesn't, given he didn't know Funny was the traitor (he had a idea but wasn't certain) or that Funny had a huge exposition and explained a critical weakness Dio wasnt aware of that eventually lead to him dying.

As for the acausality thing, I would prefer if his page said that. Because if it’s a verse mechanic then SBA overwrites that unless OP overwrites SBA.

It could be a verse mechanic, though that depends on how you define "verse mechanic". I can absolutely guarantee that nobody is effected by past changes, even changes that would outright delete them from existence though (Kosaku comes to mind). They simply don't care and it isn't given a second thought. You're right, I'll look into getting it added after the current shit gets sorted out, I never really thought much on it till yesterday tbh which is probably why it aint on the profile, literally nobody really thought to much on the subject though in hindsight it's kinda, super blatant.

Paradox blows all of Dio’s summons into oblivion with a universal or multiversal (EE’ing) bomb.

I'm not so sure on that actually, Funny has some 2-A range escaping and if I'm not wrong, Paradox is 2-B with that right? Plus there's a few that can negate causality and fate, at least for a time. Of course they can't win on their own obviously, they're barely a issue, but if Dio makes use of their abilities with his own in combination? That could be a few good comboes here. Though it's ooc, excluding Pucci.

Aura might be useful.

Honestly I doubt it, it's basically a Dio gets to ignore one attack then he has to wait for it to recharge.

Paradox can also stop time during prep to basically give himself as much “time” as he wants.

And Dio can do the same given his time stop is no longer just a few seconds (we're told it would reach infinite time eventually, and that was in canon, HA Dio by all accounts should have hit that infinite time threshold like, a decade or two ago from his perspective), leave it at three days and keep it as that.

Edit: I really don't think this matters but, Dio can spawn weapons out of thin air to attack (like knives, kinda like Gilgamesh lite) and heatseek and spawn attacks from under people's feet like twisters that also remove their eyesight. He also can throw a punch and have the shockwave hit someone from like, across the stage. I doubt any of these matter but they may help, though I'm unsure if he has these pre key anyway, I only recall these being used in his post key but I could be wrong (the shockwave thing would apply at least, it comes from his Stand's raw physical strength).

 

[Greenshifter]

@manu Actually since only BFR to his own dimension is thought-based (and even that I doubt since Chariot didn’t explicitly say it is) and Dio would be in the same dimension I presume... Paradox can just stop time and out-AP with either his own powers, the Chrono Navigator or age him into a baby since he should have the same abilities with his Chrono Navigator as the Time Cycles due to using the same power source.

Don’t see why time stop breaks the rules.

 

[Chariot190]

Don’t see why time stop breaks the rules.

They get three days prep time, not infinite time prep time, that's why. And that goes for both of them. Dio can do it too, he won't, because he has three days to prep, not three days but actually infinite time.

 

[Greenshifter]

Dio has no prep here. Also you can’t do everything in a time stop, certain stuff that requires testing for instance would have Paradox unstop time. I will say though that we have no clear standard on this stuff.

 

[Chariot190]

Actually since only BFR to his own dimension is thought-based

BFR to his own dimension is thought based activation, he doesn't need to hit you or anything, hell, he doesn't even need to be in the same time or universe as you to BFR you. It can also draw in numerous things at once into his dimension.
But prekey, that's the only BFR he has via RO thats thought based. Rifts don't need contact, but they take longer.

Dio would be in the same dimension I presume...

He can be, but he doesn't have to, he teleported like 30+ characters scattered across universes and time all at once to his dimension while he was talking to Jotaro in Cairo in 1989, all the while the people where in like 2011, 2001, 1999, 1890 in a universe at the edge of space-time comparatively to the main universe, etc.


Though, again, only BFR to HIS dimension has this type of range pre key.

 

[Chariot190]

Dio has no prep here. Also you can’t do everything in a time stop, certain stuff that requires testing for instance would have Paradox unstop time. I will say though that we have no clear standard on this stuff.

Either or, then if Dio did have prep time, I'd be against that too, three days was what he was given, three days is what he has, sure he could in theory increase that to however long as he wants, but I'm pretty sure the intent was he has three days for a reason opposed to, well, literally any other amount of time.
If OP didn't intend for him to have three days and just three days as a reasonable amount of time, he probably wouldn't of specified that, or at the very least, he probably would have just said "prep time" given, well, at what point does it even matter if he can extend it to however long as he pleases?
I can't speak for Blanco though but imo it's kinda obvious that a loophole like that is incredibly suspect for any thread or match with time stoppers or time manipulators.

 

[Greenshifter]

We can just ask OP on the prep time. @Gohanblanco217

 

[Chariot190]

That doesn't work, people only get notified if a admin does the tagging.
A normal user doing that won't notify, was implemented that way so admins and the like don;t get swamped with notifications by like dozens of people.

You'd need to ask directly on his wall, or hope he notices this and says something.

 

[Greenshifter]

or hope he notices this and says something.

That was the plan

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I think Kira might be strong enough

 

[Chariot190]

Weird question but what's Paradox's LS?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Eh....... Guys the results of the match are already added lol

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Weird question but what's Paradox's LS?

Unknown according to the page

 

[Greenshifter]

Lol, that’s the last question I expected. Eh considering Eon clashing with Diamondhead is currently used for his AP. I’d say at least Class M, you could argue it to be lower though I think (something like Swampfire’s Class M).

 

[Chariot190]

Eh....... Guys the results of the match are already added lol

Wot, then why did everyone want me to come here? If it's done with (albeit seemingly gonna be outdated soon anyway), why am I here?

 

[Chariot190]

Lol, that’s the last question I expected. Eh considering Eon clashing with Diamondhead is currently used for his AP. I’d say at least Class M, you could argue it to be lower though I think (something like Swampfire’s Class M).

He's listed as unknown, so I'm unsure.
Did he grapple with them at all? Get into locks? Anything of that sort?

 

[Greenshifter]

Eh....... Guys the results of the match are already added lol

I’ll see if I can counter Chariot’s arguments, if not then they have to be removed.

 

[Chariot190]

I’ll see if I can counter Chariot’s arguments, if not then they have to be removed.

I'm not really arguing, I'm only here because I was asked multiple times. I quite frankly don't even know what's been discussed thus far.
Rather, I'm better suited to answering questions that may be in play here, that I can do at least.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Chariot 0:50 and 2:22. As for the unknown, could either be because Liger thought amped Eon from UA scaled higher than Class M (no distinction in keys despite 2 different versions of Eon), because he wasn’t really accounting for the fight with Diamondhead back then or he considers Eon to actually be a physical mid-tier and shouldn’t (fully) scale to DH (he was pretty casual after all). Eon is also pretty much all over the place (especially if you don’t splice him into keys). And well Paradox only physically fights Eon on-screen so that’s why the unknown extends to him.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm not really arguing, I'm only here because I was asked multiple times. I quite frankly don't even know what's been discussed thus far.
Rather, I'm better suited to answering questions that may be in play here, that I can do at least.

Your arguments/clarifications thus far are better than anything that came in the last few pages of this thread.

 

[Zencha9]

true

 

[Rikimarox2]

>:v

 

[Chariot190]

@Chariot 0:50 and 2:22

Maybe? I'm unsure if that scales to LS? I know grappling and chokeholds and all that fun stuff does scale if it happens (see Metal Gear) but I'm unsure if crosscountering does (if it does then oh boy, we can maybe finally give Stands some actual LS instead of "Unknown" for 90% of the cast).

I can see it possibly scaling though.

 

[Greenshifter]

I mean DH could just overpower Eon’s grip the moment they were locked and turned around if Eon doesn’t have Class M. Also there’s an LS flex moment in basically every episode of Ben 10, where characters grapple for no apparent reason.

 

[Chariot190]

I have no idea what you just said.
I'm just going under the impression the purple armored dude has Class M and trying to see if Paradox would scale to his LS based on the above scene.
I can see it possibly scaling, but I'm unsure if we as, a wiki, scale like that without things like grapples and stuff (I mean I personally don't really have any qualms with it scaling based on AP if in context, physical AP and LS scale linearly in that verse).

 

[Greenshifter]

Well currently it doesn’t scale completely linear with power levels although I have arguments for it being linear. Paradox and Eon are the only at least 7-A’s who don’t have at least Class M though. Jetstream Sam scales to Raiden for being physically comparable to him which I assume comes from locking blades, something Eon and DH also did for a brief moment (while they were rotating). Paradox’s LS definitely scales to Eon’s since he overpowered his grip.

 

[Arcker123]

Hasn’t this been added to profiles

 

[Greenshifter]

Chariot graciously appeared a day too late. That said I’d be pissed if the reverse happens (cough Kars vs Alien X) so I’m willing to debate him even though he is technically too late.